Does anyone know if this is a valid CCA?

[Gin and Milk]

I am absolutely sick and tired of being hounded by DCA's etc (as everyone else here is). After numerous CCA requests to numerous DCA's, I received this from HBOS.

 

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u7/PossVox/HBOSCCA2001.jpg

 

 

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u7/PossVox/HBOSCCA20012.jpg

 

Can someone please tell me if this is a valid CCA (it's a loan, not a CC). If it is valid - what do I do now?

 

Any advice, much appreciated.

[slick132]

Hi G&M,

 

I'll ask a member of the Site Team to stop by, take a look and advise you on this.

[steven4064]

I'm afraid it is perfectly valid - as far as I can see it is properly executed and it certainly is enforceable as it has your signature and the prescribed terms.

 

If you are not doing so already, keep a detailed record of all correspondence and phone calls. However, do not talk to them on the phone but insist they only correspond in writing - that is your right

Edited June 23, 2008 by steven4064

[Gin and Milk]

thanks for that. I have a file full of letters from god only knows how many dca's. Touch wood, the phone calls seem to have stopped, but I don't want to tempt fate...

What do you think I should do now?

[IdaInFife]

You should make up and inc/exp sheet and send it along with a proposal of payment inluding the first payment. Then keep to what you have offered unless you are in a position to make a full and final settlement

 

 

Ida x

[steven4064]

And if they are phoning you I would send them the telephone harassment letter http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/37006-harassment-telephone-response-letter.html although I prefer a somewhat more strongly worded version:

Your address

Their address

HARASSMENT BY TELEPHONE

 

 

Dear Sirs

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: XXXXXXX

 

 

I am writing in relation to the quantity and frequency of telephone calls that I have received from your company. I am keeping a record of the calls that I get and they average x calls per week, sometimes as many as x calls a day. Be advised that any further telephone calls from your company will be recorded. (**Even if you don‘t yet have recording equipment!!**)

 

I have requested that these calls stop [on the phone][in writing], but I am still receiving calls. (change or delete as necessary)

 

I assert my right that all further correspondence from your company should be made in writing only.

 

I would like to point out that your behaviour constitutes harassment under ss1&2 of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 –

 

1 Prohibition of harassment

(1) A person must not pursue a course of conduct—

(a) which amounts to harassment of another, and

(b) which he knows or ought to know amounts to harassment of the other.

(2) For the purposes of this section, the person whose course of conduct is in question ought to know that it amounts to harassment of another if a reasonable person in possession of the same information would think the course of conduct amounted to harassment of the other…

 

2 Offence of harassment

(1) A person who pursues a course of conduct in breach of section 1 is guilty of an offence.

(2) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months, or a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale, or both...

 

Further, this behaviour is also an offence under s127(2)© of the Communications 2003 –

127 Improper use of public electronic communications network

 

(2) A person is guilty of an offence if, for the purpose of causing annoyance, inconvenience or needless anxiety to another, he—

…

© persistently makes use of a public electronic communications network.

(3) A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable, on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months or to a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale, or to both...

 

I am writing to you to impress on you the seriousness of your actions, since your call centre staff are obviously ignorant in this respect.

 

If I receive any further calls, I will give the facts to the local police, naming the name of company’s employee(s) involved and any senior managers I deem to be responsible, and I will press for the full penalties under the Acts quoted.

 

I also reserve the right to civil remedy under s3 of the Protection from Harassment Act and also enforcement action under s4 of that Act and s129 of the Communications Act via OFCOM.

 

Please do not phone concerning this matter. If you need to communicate with me, write to the above address.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

[NAME HERE]

[diskmandave]

I'm afraid it is perfectly valid - as far as I can see it is properly executed and it certainly is enforceable as it has your signature and the prescribed terms.

 

I concur Steven. All of the prescribed terms are there and it complies with 2(1) of the Copies of Doc's Reg's 1983..

 

Although i'm not sure of its relevance in this case, I can't see the right to cancel anywhere on the document.

 

Regards, Dave.

[steven4064]

Hi Dave

 

On the second page it has 'Read this Carefully - Your Rights' This and what follows is a valid 'disclaimer' from Item 14 (or possibly 16) of Part I of Schedule 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 instead of 'Your Right To Cancel' as this, presumably, is an agreement falling under s12(b) of the CCA 1974.

 

Although it seems it should actually say "Read this carefully to find out about your rights"

[slick132]

Hi G&M,

 

The other aspect to consider is whether any unlawful charges have added to the a/c when you had late or missed pay'ts. If so, you could reclaim them to reduce the debt.

[Gin and Milk]

Hi - thanks for your replies. I was going to take your advice, but shortly after, I received a letter from Robinson Way chasing payment, so I CCA'd them. During this time, I received a letter from HBOS, enclosing my account details and a CCA. They told me that Robinson Way were now dealing with my account and I should make my payment to them. Given that I was still waiting for my CCA from Robinson Way, I did nothing. Since then, I have received a 'Telemessage', a snotty letter demanding payment and today, a FINAL NOTICE letter on red paper - ALL FROM WESCOT!!!

I am becoming more confused by the minute and the words 'right hand, left hand' spring to mind. I do realise I may have to concede and pay, but if I do, I will contest the PPI added, which cost more than half the amount of the loan. I know my debt is small and I know I've been naiive, but one way or another, I WILL have the last laugh over these people.

I wouldn't mind, but the loan was with britannia - as was my mortgage. When I moved, I obviously had to tell britannia too. That was 4 years ago. Have I ever heard from britannia about my debt? No!!!

[steven4064]

If they are passing it round like this, there is something else you can do. There are 2 ways in which another company can get involved:

 

1. They act on behalf of the original creditor as an agent - you still owe the original creditor and the original creditor only can take you to court

 

2. they 'buy' the debt from the original creditor and they then become the creditor and can take you to court in their own name

 

In case 2, you must have been sent a Notice of assignment by Special delivery or the new creditor has no right to collect - sections 136 and 196 of the Law of Property Act 1925 - so, if you think this applies, ask them to prove they sent a NoA if they take you to court

[Gin and Milk]

Thanks for your reply steven.. I've checked the 'red letter' from wescot and they say they that their 'client' is Bank of Scotland, so I'm guessing option 2 is a no - no. However, I haven't had any correspondence from (H)BOS saying that they'll take me to court either. Should i sit tight and hunt around on the PPI section on CAG just in case I have to pay?

[bigandyuk1]

Quite clearly states APPLICATION in the declartion section !!

[Gin and Milk]

I know - that's what I thought, but apparently it has all the correct prescribed terms, so it is valid:(

I now think that my only chances are contesting the interest charges and/or the ppi charges, which are on the cca. Obviously, before I can even consider how to do that, I need to be certain where I stand now. If I try and challenge anything else at the mo' I will be admitting the debt. Then they'll be no going back!!

[slick132]

You didn't say earlier if you've suffered any penalty charges on the a/c.

 

These could be reclaimed to reduce the debt which you owe.

[Gin and Milk]

Sorry, yes they have added a few charges here and there - it adds up to just over £86.00. I'm totally against this principle, but judging by other people's posts, I've got off very lightly. I doubt a judge would regard my charges as excessive. Every penny helps though...

[steven4064]

On what basis are you going to claim PPI? On the charges, 86p is excessive if it is more than their actual costs.

 

Just to confirm, whatever it says in the declaration, the agreement in post #1 is enforceable.

[Gin and Milk]

I'm still trying to find out what I can do re PPI, but basically the amount of the loan was £1000. The cost of the PPI (Creditcare silver) is £529 - over half the amount borrowed in the first place. I can't recall exactly where I heard it, but if the amount is disproportionate to the loan (I think so), then they're on dodgy ground. It's something to do with the interest rates too I think.

You see now why I'm doing my ppi homework as fast as I can?!

[slick132]

These charges should be reclaimed NOW to reduce the debt and to put the a/c formally "In Dispute".

 

Have a read of the Guide to Reclaiming at Link No1 in my signature below.

 

Keep this entirely separate from claiming PPI which you can pursue on the PPI section of the forum.

[Gin and Milk]

Thanks Slick, I'll read that now.

Do you think I could be in with a chance then? *she asks in a non-legally binding kind of way*

[slick132]

You'll get your account charges refunded as they are unlawful penalties.

 

Simple as that.

[Gin and Milk]

I've just had another look at a snotty letter that I recieved from HBOS last month. I'm not sure about these bits:

'When your account is in arrears it is passed to our collections department. At this point they will try and contact you either by telephone and letter to advise you of the status of your account and to prompt a suitable repayment agreement to be arranged'

 

I've never had any such communication as mentioned above. I am certain they have written to my old address, DESPITE what I mentioned in #10 in this thread.

 

'However, once 7 months arrears have accrued the account will be defaulted and passed to our recovery agents, Blair, Oliver & Scott...'

According to the statement of payments made, my first payment to blair,oliver,scott was November '06. i stopped paying the original creditor in July - that's 4 months (I know for a fact they first contacted me earlier, but I may not have kept the letter).

 

Would it be worth my while writing to HBOS (or even Britannia), asking for copies of these letters they say they sent to me - and could they confirm the address they initially wrote to. Or, should I write to HBOS that July - November is 4 months, NOT 7?

[PossVox]

Subscribing

[Gin and Milk]

Bumping this one up, as I'd really appreciate how best to tackle this one

[slick132]

Hi G&M,

 

I don't think it's worth querying whether they should have instructed Blair, Scott Oliver after 4 or 7 months - the a/c was in arrears so they have the right to pursue for payment.

 

I assume they have your correct address now.

 

Get on with quantifying the penalty charges which you can reclaim.