BCW & Cat debt

[purp751]

help,

 

I had a catalogue, which due to their messing up when things should be put on the account (on get them now and add 6 months later)

the payments ended up going over what could afford, it wouldn't have happened if they'd got it right,

 

after talking with them we agreed on a monthly payment sum which was paying.

 

Now it seems the catalogue has sold the debt on,

 

firstly to phoenix who have never contacted me,

and now onto buchanan clark + wells who have stated that phoenix have contacted

and there's 'no legitimate reason for non-payment' of course there is,

I didn't even know it had gone,

needless to say payments have been cancelled to the catalogue.

 

now this debt is £691,

from what have heard phoenix add massive interest charges onto accounts they buy

so can only assume that's the reason it's gone up so much too,

 

am worried they're going to get 'heavy' and want the full cash which I don't have,

 

I was happy paying the instalments to pay it off,

how do I go about this,

 

help,

 

I thought it was sorted and was being paid off!

 

another annoying factor is they haven't even sent this letter to me as married name

(and it was married name with the catalogue too!),

and have sent it to my maiden name!

 

can anyone help draft a letter which says I was paying this,

am annoyed at what they've all done,

 

phoenix have NEVER been in contact with me (so that throws out this no reason for not paying as didn't even know!!),

and that the instalments will have to continue as I don't have the money to pay it off in one lump sum

which their letter threatens that if don't court action will happen?!

 

thank you in advance, feel sick with worry and have visions of them knocking on the door getting forceful!

[Pinky69]

Relax - they may huff and puff but they cannot blow your house down! In fact you decide how this is going to be paid, not them.

 

Send them a "prove it" letter ie they have got to prove they have a legitimate right to collect this debt as this is the first you have heard of it and they haven't even got your name right!

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Your ref:

 

Your company has contacted me regarding an account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself to Phoenix.

 

I have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to Phoenix and in the absence of proof of the alleged debt both Phoenix and Buchanan Clark and Wells are in breach of the Data Protection Act 1998 for processing information about me without my permission.

 

I require Phoenix to prove that this alleged debt exists and is owed by me to them. I also require a copy of any Notice Of Assignment informing me that the alleged debt has been assigned to Phoenix as required by the Law of Property Act 1925 Section 136. I have no knowledge of any such Notice of Assignment having been issued.

 

Under the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance it is unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it has not been proved that they are the debtor in question.

 

OFT Guidance also states that it is unfair to pursue individuals for payment when they are not liable. It is also a breach of the Guidance to use unfair/deceptive means to try to collect payment on a debt when it has not been proved that the debt is owed by the person being pursued.

 

Furthermore ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.

 

I would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above alleged debt unless you can provide evidence as to the alleged debt’s existence and my liability for it.

 

All correspondence MUST be in writing. BE AWARE THAT ALL PHONE CALLS ARE RECORDED and recordings will be transmitted to the OFT and used in court if necessary.

 

I trust this makes my position clear. If there is anything about this letter you do not understand, I suggest you take legal advice.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

Don't speak to them on the phone - ever- they will only bully you into paying what you cannot afford - that is Golden Rule No1. If they call, don't answer or hang up.

 

Once you have your reply to that, you can get more advice about what to do next. Don't worry about anyone coming to the door. No one can do that without your permission and you can ask them to leave or you will call the police as they are trespassing. If the paper work eventually proves to be in order, you only need offer them what you can afford and they would look pretty silly taking you to court because no court would order you to pay more than you can afford. This "prove it " letter is only the first step - there's more! Welcome to CAG - you are on your way to taking charge.

[babybear39]

Subscribing...

[purp751]

thank you, feel can breathe a bit easier with that, will get it sent off recorded delivery to them asap and follow up. great forum, definately worth donations to keep running for sure!!

 

what does 'subscribing' mean babybear39?

[The GodMother]

it just means we are keeping an eye on your thread and we are willing to help out as and when necessary.

 

we normally do this buy adding a post, like i have, or buy near the top of the page clicking on thread links and clicking subscribe to this thread. Either way next time someone posts it will show up under our subscribed threads in the quick links section.

 

If you need anythink i am also here to help as i love doing battle with catalogues.

[purp751]

letter sent, how long should I wait for a reply from them?

[Pinky69]

I would give them 14 days - you will probably get a reply sooner than that.

[purp751]

ok I've had a reply, not quite what expected, a final notice stating that since I have failed to notify them of any legitimate reason for non-payment that they can only assume I don't wish to settle the matter amicably, there is no mention of the letter above that I sent to them, nor any confirmation of what this debt is, they did sign for the recorded delivery letter so KNOW they got it (printed off the signed slip as proof they did), so now what do I do, they said they want payment immediately or else?

 

they've totally ignored the letter asking what this debt is, it's origins and what it's for?

 

what do I do now this is a copy of their letter bwlow:

 

 

 

We refer to previous correspondence regarding our clients Pheonix Recoveries (UK) Limited S.a.r.l and regret to note that your debt, in the sum of £691.83 remains outstanding.

 

Since you have failed to notify us of any legitimate reason for non-payment we can only assume that you do not wish to settle this manner amicably.

 

Accordingly, this letter should be accepted as Final Notice that unless payment is made immediately, we shall seek to commence Legal Proceedings against you, with payment of Interest and Costs in addition to the Principal Sum being sought.

 

You can contact our 24 Hour Payment Line on 0871 700 1524 to make immediate payment by Credit or Debit Card or to set up a Direct Debit Mandate. Payment is also accepted online at thier payment website

 

Should you wish to discuss your financial circumstances in relation to this debt, we would ask you contact us immediately.

[Pinky69]

They would look pure eejits taking you to court on your maiden name when the account was in your married name! I would let them do that and let it cost them a packet - but that is not my advice to you! They have ignored your letter and the next stage is to ask the for a copy of the credit agreement. They must by law get one form the original creditor if they don't have one. They have 12 days (plus 2 for admin) to send it to you. If they haven't sent it in that time the account goes into dispute and you don't have to pay them another penny until such times as they have sent you a valid agreement. When you get it post it up here and we will have a look at it to see if it is valid. Here is the link for the letter you need to send:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

 

Scroll down to Letter N. Put " I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPNANY" at the top of the letter. Send them the £1 by postal order. Do not sign the letter but print your signature or put your initials and send by recorded delivery so you have proof they received it.

[The GodMother]

Just to add to that you could also put.

 

"OR ANY COMPANY YOU CLAIM TO REPRESENT"

 

That way they cant say we are acting on behalf of ......

[purp751]

sorry, another letter arrived after the one above with 'Choice' on it, that's all they've said about who they're acting on behalf of, I am aware I owe it and that isn't denied, am still a tad annoyed they can't get my name right though, so how do I proceed, with that letter or one stating I can't afford stupid amounts a month? which I can't, it's what caused all this in the first place!

 

how do you get them agree to a suitable amount a month, I really can't afford a lot, am sure though they won't accept £20 a month will they? but that's what could realistically afford without struggling to find it at the moment?

 

help, am now concerned they'll go to court and will end up with bailiff's or the like, probably over-reacting but never dealt with this type of thing before!

[Pinky69]

You can either challenge that they have any legal right to collect the debt at all - and if there is no credit agreement, they haven't - or if you want to make an arrangement, go to the letter templates I gave you the link for above and amongst the templates is a letter making an offer of payment. If they won't accept what you offer then tell them it is that or nothing at all. They may threaten court as a way of getting you to pay more - they are bullies of the worst kind - but any court will take a dim view of them starting proceedings where an offer of payment has been made. They may mump and moan about your offer but in the end they will accept it. Stop worrying about baillifs. They can only come if a court order is ignored and you are a long way from that stage yet. Stick to your offer and don't answer the phone if they ring.

[The GodMother]

u could send the prove it letter or just tell the the acc is in dispute with XX company and no payments will be made until the dispute is settled.

[purp751]

hi that's great thank you, so they can't go for court action when receive this letter as they have to supply the CCA first, I'm printing off copies and keeping a file with everything in so can prove what they've sent and how I've replied to them too? I'll send that off first thing tomorrow because am sure this bill from my records has gone up by almost £300 with their 'costs' added on too!

 

it's reassuring to know they'll have to accept what offer a month so won't be struggling to pay what cannot afford which was my main worry thank you so much!

 

no doubts it's not over yet and am very grateful for your advice! top site, keep it up!

[The GodMother]

Not exactly true with the court action.

 

Under the rules of the CCA1974 if they can provide a CCA then they cant take any further enforcement action but as you will notice from the threads on here that companys only seem to remember the bits they want to and deny the rest of it exists.

 

Yes tehy can attempt to take court action but they will look very stupid wen you defende and counter claim against them as we are good at making ppl look stupid.

 

just because one thing says they cant do something it does not mean they wont try. They will even say we will produce a catalogue in court as everything u need is in there.

[Captain Spaulding]

purp, the situation is quite clear here. First thing I should add is DO NOT get stressed over any of these letters coming to you. It all feels VERY personal right? Wrong....

 

These are classed as threat-o-matics, letters than are computer generated and mass churned.

 

Did you send the prove it letter recorded (and NOT signed by you of course)?

 

If so, reference the date they signed for it against the date of the threat-o-matics, is there any cross over? If so, oh well its just bad timing.

 

If not, send them a letter like this:

 

Dear BCW,

Thanks you for you letters threatening legal action, they have been noted and kept for complete audit.

 

I am concerned with your conduct on this case. As member of the CSA, you will be aware of The Office of Fair Trading: Debt Collection Guidance Section 2.8, Subsection 'i' which clearly describes a deceptive and/or unfair method as:

"failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued"

I would also like to direct you to The Office of Fair Trading: Debt Collection Guidance Section 2.8, Subsection 'k' which clearly describes a deceptive and/or unfair method as:

"not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt."

I now have evidence that BCW has contravened this guidelines in at least two occasions despite the fact that I have already acknowledged NO liability to the sum outstanding. Please be aware that further contraventions will be reported to Trading Standards and the Office of Fair Trading.

I will refer you to my letter dated which was sent to your registered office recorded delivery via Royal Mail however in respect to clarity, I have attached said letter.

As requested, I require you to provide evidence as of my liability for the debt in question and if no such proof is provided, I require written confirmation that this account is closed

 

Yours Faithfully

 

Me

Edited July 7, 2008 by Captain Spaulding

[babybear39]

Excellent letter CS

[Captain Spaulding]

Cheers BB, I've updated to take into account the OFT Guidelines rev 2006. Feel free to use/alter as you like

[purp751]

thanks CS, yes you're right, it does feel personal, like someone's sitting at their desk deciding it's my turn this week, am more upset because wanted this sorting out with the company in the first place but they just sold it on rather than do that

 

I'll send that letter off tomorrow as well and let you know their response, shall I enclose a £1 postal order still for a CCA?

 

I sent it recorded yep, I printed off the signature of the person who signed for it off royal mail's online tracking service too so can prove they did receive it if they decide they didn't, I didn't sign the letter personally, I printed my initial and surname (my married one, the one they should have anyway), was that the right thing to do?

Edited July 7, 2008 by purp751
forgot extra bit!

[Captain Spaulding]

Awesome! Don't send the cheque, this is only a prove it letter not a CCA request!

 

Post back when they reply..... Oh n don't stress!

[purp751]

well this gets even better LOL received a letter this morning, sorry to your asking if the letters crossed they sent out the above one a week after they'd received mine (mine was signed for on the 26th June and theirs was dated 2nd July), so they should've responded better, anyway I received this letter this morning and now am unsure how to respond?

 

Dear Miss Me (aghh...)

 

pursuer:phoenix

principal sum £691.83

 

Dear madam

 

I write with regard to your recent communication concerning the above account.

 

I can confirm that I have arranged for a copy of the invoice to be sent to you directly by our Clients. This will be with you as soon as possible.

 

Please do not hesitate to contact us....etc etc and they sign off.

 

 

soooooo do I now wait, an invoice still isn't a CCA is it, or do I do some kind of letter saying that while an invoice can be typed up by them...I want proper proof of what's been charged? also do I put on that I assume they'll be holding their actions until this has been sorted out satisfactorily, something that'll make them shiver...a lot!

 

am starting to smile a little, it seems they're realising their bully tactics aren't working, tho I've no doubt if hadn't found here they probably would've, how many pay up purely based on their threatening manner I wonder...?

[Captain Spaulding]

Exactly the same letter I got when I sent them a prove it letter. Now, just sit back and wait. You are correct, the term 'invoice' is misleading. Unless its a executed CCA then you're laughing!

 

Dont forget that the prove it letter is the start of the process, next steps are CCA's and statements, then you could go for SARs etc etc....

 

I learnt quickly that its one step at a time, you make your move then see how they try and counter it. Based on what they provide will create the strategy behind your next move

 

The answer to your question on how many people put up with being bullied by these cowardly thugs - hundreds of thousands!

 

The tide has turned!

[The GodMother]

hi purp.

 

When u sent the prove it letter did u ask them to send a washing machine or even a cooker? If not then what is the invoice for?

 

Yes you just need to play the lovely waiting game which yes is very boring.

[Captain Spaulding]

The 'invoice' bit is standard spew from these miscreants - whilst the logic of it remains unknown, ******* on their brigade seems great fun!

 

I'm also awaiting the 'invoice' (oh and the threat-o-matics have stopped), cant wait to get it as I think I will be quoting the limitations act

[The GodMother]

i have had plenty of dealings with DCAs to know they spout some strange stuff.

 

the many dealing i have had with SDFS regarding there CCAs is funny.

 

there is not many accs i have see that have a cca.