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re: barclaycard goodwill gesture


antz99
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YES THIS WAS ON THE COVERING LETTERS OF BOTH BUT AS I SAID BELOW WORDING WAS CHANGED SLIGHTLY IN THE SECOND ONE

 

+ A copy of your original barclaycard credit agreement at the time you entered into your agreement

+ A copy of your current Barclaycard agreement

 

 

The letter received in November 2008 says exactly the same again but slightly changes the language from "at the time you entered in your agreement too "At the time you opened your account "

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I'd write back and say thank you for your letter of Blah.

 

You have still not provided a valid copy of any Credit Agreement.

 

In view of my last letter dated blah (from post #66), a copy of which I enclose for your information, can I know take it you have no valid Credit Agreement and will write down the balance on the a/c and remove any markers from my Credit Files, as requested.

 

The I'd leave it at that - wait until they do something interesting.

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That letter was not sent from 66 as I was in the process of getting it ready but the letter from barclaycard came this morning.

 

Although they did have a request for a true copy of the credit agreement when they only sent terms and conditions last time so I have already sent them a reminder.

 

I will get a letter drawn up to cover the points you mentioned.

 

Can I ask why you think they have inlcuded the terms and conditions of the credit agreement that does have my name and address on, but have not a true copy of the agreement

 

are they trying to say that terms and conditions that has my name and says a contract between "the two parties" is an agreement

 

Do you think I have a case under the the DPA SECTION 10

 

thanks slick

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Hi Antz,

 

I think you should scan the "Credit Agree'ts" supplied by BC so they can be looked at and commented on by those "in the know". See here for how to do it - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

 

ARE Barclaycard not also in breach of section 10 of the data protection act by not supplying me with a true copy of my CA.

Not sure quite what your point is here.

 

They could be in breach under s10 because they continue to process your data if no valid CA has been produced. But that's different to how you've put it.

 

Don't mean to be pedantic, but you need to be sure on these matters.:)

Edited by slick132
Doh! forgot link - now added.

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Oh sorry slick, thats what I did mean but looked back at what I wrote and can be seen differently....

 

I was reading a section on the data protection act and realised thats another angle I have as they can not carry on passing my info to the CRA if they go not supply me with a copy of my CA

 

I will upload everything

 

thanks slick

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  • 3 weeks later...

I have set up a photo bucket account so can upload links to my documents that they say are a CCA from BARCLAYCARD

 

THe information I am uploading is exactly the same as the information I received in December 08 that I said was not a copy of my CCA

 

So B/C ARE obviously not listening or understanding as they have sent the same information as the first letter .

 

Everything uploaded is what I received the barclaycard conditions page does have a back page but it is just standard conditions so have not uploaded.

 

As you will see what is written in the covering letter is not what barclaycard have included.

 

Thanks Guys

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Hi Antz,

 

Take a look here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/143817-ccman-rbs-3.html#post1863872

 

Steven's comments in the following post are, I think, relevant to your case.

 

:)

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Thanks slick .. yes this looks like the case as they can not supply me with a CCA so how can they process my data..

 

Will it be possible to have one of the guys stop by and have a look at what they sent me as you usually ask in cases that I have read.

 

What annoys me is two things :

 

how they send exactly the same letter twice with same info from the same person when I said the first letter was not a copy of my CCA.

 

And how on the barclaycard conditions page which is my second link above they have put my name and address at the top of the letter (which I have obv blanked out) to try and show that is a copy of my agreement when it is just conditions.

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Seems to be a desperate attempt to try and comply with your request....

 

You might be interested in this - (this was sent to a cagger from the OFT)

 

For your information, the general effects of sections 77-79 requires the creditor/owner

(in the case of a hire agreement) under an agreement for (fixed-sum credit, running

account credit and hire agreement) to provide the debtor/hirer with a copy of the executed

agreement and a statement of account on request.

 

If a creditor/owner fails to comply with a valid request within a period of 12 days

(not including the date of receipt of the request) he may not enforce the agreement at all.

This prevents enforcement with or without a court order. If a default lasts for a month

(for example a calendar month) it constitutes an offence. We understand your concerns in

this matter but please do remember however that once the creditor/owner complies with

the request albeit out of time, he may once again enforce the agreement.

 

A ‘true copy’ of an agreement principally consists of the terms and conditions of the agreement

and the statutory content of the agreement. The name, address and signature of the debtor do

not have to be provided. Additionally, the creditor must supply the total sum paid under the

agreement by the debtor; the total sum which has become payable under the agreement but

remains unpaid; and the total sum which is to become payable under the agreement by the debtor

(the latter two must include the various amounts comprised in that total sum and the date when

each is/was due). However, the copy must be a copy. It need not be exact on immaterial points,

but it cannot be a conjectured reconstruction. If the trader has no original copy, the trader will have

difficulty showing that he has complied with the regulation by supplying a ‘true copy’, since nobody

would know what was in the original. When the trader comes to enforce the debt in court, he needs

to have a signed copy of the agreement in order to enforce. As the law stands currently he cannot

otherwise.

 

In the absence of a copy of the original agreement someone's liability for a debt can only lead to

further query. However in circumstances like this we would view it is as unfair practice under

section 25(2) (d) of the Act and relevant to licence fitness if a trader failed to investigate and/or

provide details as appropriate when a debt is queried or disputed

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Dear xxxx,

 

Thank you for your letter dated xxxx, however I find it difficult to believe that you have mislaid such an important document as the copy of the credit agreement.

 

As I am sure you are aware; especially with the recent highlighted cases of 'lost' data, which seems to be a serious issue I was led to believe that you are legally obliged to keep copy agreements for a 6 year period. As I’m sure you are aware, this 6 year period starts from the closing of an account not the opening of one.

 

 

It would appear that you have failed in your obligations to comply with the various anti money laundering regulations in not keeping such documents. This, as I’m sure you are aware, is a very serious offence.

 

I now require the balance of this account to be returned to zero.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter a statutory notice under Section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies. Should you refuse to comply, you must within 14 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’, you must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you fail to respond within 14 days, I will expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore, you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take any action against an account whilst it remains in dispute. The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following would apply:

  • You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.
  • You may not add any further interest or charges to the account.
  • You may not pass the account to any third party.
  • You may not register any information in respect of the account with any of the credit reference agencies.
  • You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

Please be aware, the CCA 1974 is very clear that a default can only be issued for breach of a valid, regulated agreement. As there is no agreement a default cannot be lawfully issued as no valid, regulated agreement has been breached.

I would ask that you review this account and respond favourably within 14 days of the date of this letter. Failure to do so will result in me reporting this matter to The Financial Crime Branch of HM Treasury and any other authorities as I see fit.

 

I look forward to your reply in due course.

 

Yours faithfully

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OR you could write...

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account Number: XXX

 

Re; your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

I note that you have replied to the above by sending your companies current Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

 

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form.” This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

 

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

 

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues

 

Yours faithfully

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Thank you to both 42man and steven ..

 

I like the look of the letter 42man I will personalise it and get it off ASAP so they can have a nice pre xmas present from me.....;)

 

Do either of you know why they would put both the name of barclaycard and my name and address as in a contract arrangement between us on the barclaycard conditions page ????

 

And also why in the cover page they would state they are including a copy of my agreement and then do not produce one.

As I have mentioned earlier this letter and contents I received was exactly what I was sent a few months ago so they did not listen to my second request for a copy of my CCA.. ALL CAN BE VIEWED IN EARLIER POSTS

 

Thanks to all

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42man,

 

 

your second letter is very similar to that Slick prepared for me in post 55 after them sending me terms and conditions the first time... So do you feel I should send the letter again as they are obviously not understanding me or wanting to.

 

What do you believe I should do in your opinion.

 

thanks

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Send 42man's FIRST letter.

 

It'll waste less ink. ;)

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