MO v Virgin Media (refund of charges)***WON***

[mo]

just had a call form virgin media,complaints dept.i sent a letter asking for myh charges back,the lady says no, they have put there charges through offcom,and offcom say they are correct,and all these charges are in my t&c.i told her i shall be sending a letter before action,but she says im wasting my time,any thoughts?

[davethorp]

LBA and then court. Could also try giving the CEO an e-mail. That got all my charges refunded. His addy is on this site somewhere

[mo]

thanks,is she talking rubbish then?who did you e mail?

[davethorp]

I e-mailed Neil Berkett about it who is the chief executive officer who passed it onto someone in his office who was a very nice lady called Penny who agreed to refund all previous charges and place a £5 credit on my bill each month to eliminate the nonDD charge

 

His e-mail is [email protected]

 

The e-mail I sent was as follows (feel free to copy though make sure you amend as to suit you.... defo take out the bit about ebilling unless you've had problems with that area lately)

 

Dear Mr Berkett,

I write regarding the above referenced account with yourselves and the recent charges that have been applied to my account.

 

Over the last six months I have been subjected to charges of £5 a month (total £30) for not paying by direct debit. As I am sure you are aware, with the recent publicity of these charges, unless you are able to prove that this is a true reflection of your costs in relation to payment by means other than direct debit, these charges are unlawful and unenforceable in a court of law by virtue of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999) and the common law.

 

In addition, the last straw for me is the £10 late payment charge added to my latest bill. Firstly, as the ebilling system was down for a number of weeks over the latest billing period, I did not have full access to my account. As all my bills are online I also had no record of my account number for the automated telephone system to make a payment. As such I called customer services to make a payment. However when I called their systems were also down and so I made a payment that would clear the majority of my bill. As the outstanding balance was only a small portion of my overall bill and as any late payment was the fault of your systems being down, I dispute this late payment charge. I also dispute it again as I believe it to be a penalty that is not reflective of your costs and again put you to strict proof that this is not the case.

 

In order to resolve this complaint, I require from you either a complete breakdown of your costs demonstrating they are a reasonable charge which is merely you recovering your costs relating to these matters and not penalising your customers. Failing that I require a refund of all charges incurred to date which is 6*£5 non direct debit charge and one £10 late payment therefore the total to be refunded is £40. Please be advised that until such a time this complaint is resolved, I consider the £40 of charges to be disputed and any payments I make to you towards my bills will reflect this. As such my payment towards my latest bill will be £36.33. Any further charges added as a result of this will also be disputed.

 

Whilst I wish to avoid any unnecessary litigation, I am obliged to warn you that I am prepared to take this case to court to recover the charges if it becomes necessary. A further letter will be sent within 14 days time to warn you of impending action should you not respond favourably to this letter. Please also note that as I am nearing the end of my contract in 3 months time, should you not respond favourably, I may be forced to take my business over to sky. I hope this does not become necessary.

 

Bear in mind also that things have changed lately with BT winning in court over these charges so virgin may not be as likely to play ball

Edited June 19, 2008 by davethorp
Additional info

[mo]

thanks,i didnt know bt had won in court,was that for non d d or late fees?

[mo]

hi.im sorry for asking again,but i dont know if to carry on with this claim or not,ive been going on to them now for months ,so should i send them a lba? thanks

[locutus]

I'm sure that people have had these fee's waived since BT won the DD fee case. Just a littly FYI, BT's charges work out at £18 per year, VM work out at £60. The court case did NOT set a precident and I've not heard of any company even defending, they just "gesture of good will we'll credit £5.00 per month" type of stuff. If you are on benefits of any type I'm sure you can get either a reduced or free cout claim, and it's most likely that VM will settle out of court rather than risk losing. Of course all of this is your descision to make, GL and I hope you recieve satisfaction. IMHO the LBA is not going to cost you much and may rattle their cage.

 

Also (sorry for ranting on) I'm sure some people have said that as VM is not an established company, that they have the fee's waived for 6 months... £30 is better than a kick in the teeth

[mo]

ive decided to tryh and send lba to virgin see how i go,perhaps what the lady said to me on the phone was rubish?anyone got a copy of lba?thanks

[BankFodder]

Don't send the LBA unless you are sure about it and you are sure that you will follow through with the summons. Otherwise you just humiliate yourself.

 

Do you know how many letters they receive each month threatening action? Lots.

Do you know how many of those letters aren't followed up? Most.

[mo]

thanks,if i can get the correct leter and poc details i will def go to small claims,i am so fed up of there charges

[mo]

hi,im still very confused,i dont know if people are telling me to continue or not with this?i thought from reading these threads these charges were re claimable?

[locutus]

Lots of good info in this thread, hope it helps

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/telecoms-mobile-fixed/74802-penalties-not-paying-direct.html

[mo]

thanks fot that,ive read thru it,my concern was after virgin media rang me,they said that late charges and no d d had been put to offcom and they were correct?

[MARTIN3030]

Dont deal with this by phone.Keep everything in writing.

The Bt case was won but as has been said,was not set as a precedent.

Aditionally the Bt charges are considerably less than VM.

Of course they will vigourously contest that you have a case to win-its up to you to prove you are serious,but as has also been pointed out dont anticipate it unless you are prepared to go all the way-because they will push it to the end.

If you decide that you want to go for it then theres people here who are doing it-and those who have already done it.

You should spend some time preparing and have a look at how others have done.Keep us posted.

[mo]

thanks,im goin to do a lba after and post it see what people think,i was just a bit put off with them telin me bout ofcom,didnt know if she was fibbing or not

[mo]

got letter from v m today,1st they have the date they spoke to me as 19 dec 2007,not.it was last week,then they go on to say sorry your not happy,(understatement)in the fee there are considerable costs involved in processing,the breakdown of the costs is business sensitve,and not available for public scrutiny,please be assured that this has been approved by ofcom. and then goes on to say,go away really.

[mo]

i started this last year,then i had two heart attacks in october followed by surgery,i have been really poorly,now im feelin a bit better i decided to start my claim again,i have this v.m. thing niggling in my head lol,600.00 i calculated in 6 years,ive sent them a request for repayment monday,tuesday they rang me (very qiuick)basically told me to go away as ther not refunding me,but i dont want to go away,im gonna file at small claims court,i got the n1,but am struggling with the p o c,i dont want v.m. to win this one,so if any one can help,please

[mo]

anyone?please

[MARTIN3030]

Ok have re-titled your thread.

First of all,theres a correct process which you should be seen to have gone through BEFORE filing at Court.

You will need to let them have a list of the charges that you are seeking to have refunded,telling them why you think you are entitled,and await a response from them.

Telephone calls are not really conclusive to show that you have tried to resolve this.

VM will write a final response,its on getting this letter that you should then proceed to claim if you are fully prepared to see that through.

VM have in the past been minded to refund some people who have asked through emails,but they appear now to be refusing to do this.

Its in line with that policy that you are likely to be given the brush off.

You will need to begin the process again.

I suggest that you put a formal letter in writing and make reference to the last telephone call.Give them 14 days to issue you with a final response.

You need to attatch a copy of the charges by date and amount that you will be seeking.

When you get a final response-which is normally in around 7-10 days-then come back here and we will advise further.

[mo]

thanks,this is what i sent them along with a list of charges,they recieved it yesterday then rang me.

 

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

 

 

 

 

Re. Account number:

 

 

 

I am writing to request that you repay all the Late Payment,Non Direct Deb charges that have been applied to my account. I do not believe these charges reflect the true cost to Virgin Mediafor late payment fees or non direct debit and payment handling fees.

 

If you have reasons to say otherwise then please supply me with a fuill breakdown as to how these are calculated,that will clearly demonstrate them to be a genuine pre-estimate of any loss incurred.

If you have reasons to say otherwise,then please supply me with a full breakdown as to how these are calculated,that will clearly demonstrate them to be a genuine pre-estimate of any loss incurred.

 

 

The charges total xxxxx in the event that this matter will go to litigation in the County Court,I will be asking the Court to award section 69 stat interest at 8%

Change to- In the event that this matter will go to litigation in the County Court,I will be asking the Court to award section 69 stat interest at 8%

together with an order for costs.

 

I therefore ask that you repay me the full amount of £608.00. I have attached a full schedule of the charges and interest with this document.

 

Pre action practice dicertions in the Civil Proced rules,dictate that there should be adequate notice given before litigation,that allows for both sides to try and negotiate.I reserve the right to make copies of this letter and any subse response from yourselves,avbailable to the Court at a later date.

Pre action practice directions in the Civil Procedure rules,dictate that there should be adequate notice given before litigation,that allows for both sides to try to negotiate.I reserve the right to make copies of this letter and any subsequent response from yourselves,available to the Court at a later date.

 

 

I look forward for a full response to this letter within 14 days.

 

Yours faithfully,

[mo]

im sorry for bein thick,but were do i go from here?

[MickKane]

Hi Mo how you doing. I sent the same letter that you are going to send about 10 days ago. Recieved a call today telling me that they are not going to refund my charges and will not be informing me in writing just a ref number. Go ahead and send that letter of and then wait for 14 days and do the LBA. You will prob get the same result as me and recieve a call declining them and then you take the next step which is the LBA.

 

Mick

[MARTIN3030]

Yes agreed.From my experience you will only get the letter giving notice that its their final response,if they dont manage to catch you on the phone to tell you this.

Its better to have this in writing since its evidence for you to use,should you need to later.

 

 

 

 

I suggest that you send something as follows;

 

Letter Before Action

 

Account No...................

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Further to my letter to you of ...............in relation to the refund of my charges,and the subsequent Telephone call from Virgin Media on ..............informing me that Virgin Media would not be making any refund of these,I give you a further 14 days to issue me with a breakdown of the costs in relation to your charges,which will show that they are a genuine pre estimate of your actual costs incurred in processing late payments, and non direct debit administration charges.

 

In the absence of you being unwilling,or unable to furnish these,then please issue me notice in writing your final response.

There is a requirement under Civil Procedure Rules to follow pre action protocols and seek to conclude matters ammicably before litigating.It is my view that I am giving you reasonable chance to engage in this.

 

I reserve the rights to make copies of my communications to Virgin Media available to the Court,to demonstrate that you were given opportunity to address my complaints.

 

A County Court claim will be issued by me in 14 days,and I will additionally seek to recover costs and section 69 interest at the Courts discretion.

There will be no further notifications to you from me.

 

For your reference I enclose a further copy of the charges I am looking to have refunded.

 

Yours xxxxx

 

 

enc;

 

 

 

send recorded keep a copy.

Edited March 12, 2009 by MARTIN3030
tweaked slightly

[mo]

thanks,its goin 1st class tommorrow

[mo]

i sent the letter you sugested,and got a phone call today fron v.m.,same thing charges are in terms and conditions,she said it didnt matter if it costs them less than 10.00 for a late payment because it was a detterant,i told her just put it all in writting then i can file at court