PCN from VCS (wheel-clamping.co.uk)

[Reyzz]

My partner received a PCN after having a ticket placed on her vehicle a few weeks back.

 

Basically, does anyone have any info about VCS/wheel-clamping.co.uk and if they have ever taken anyone to court and won or taken anyone to court in general?

[lamma]

PCN ? ?

this sounds like a private ticket not a council one. what contact details are on it.

 

If private no worries. if council it is a different game...

[Reyzz]

It's from wheel-clamping.co.uk, company called Vehicle Control Services LTD.

 

A 'Parking Charge Notice (PCN)', allegedly.

 

Address is

 

VCS LTD,

PO Box 686

Sheffield

S11 8XR

[lamma]

private ticket - no worries. read the stickies.

do NOT pay them

[Reyzz]

We're going to send this letter, would people recommend this or can critique it at all?

 

I acknowledge receipt of your captioned letter. It seems that you have got my details from the DVLA and I confirm I am the keeper of the vehicle in question. You should take this matter up with the driver concerned.

You appear to claim that I, as keeper, am legally responsible for the alleged debt of £120. Please substantiate this claim with appropriate citations of case and/or statute law.

 

I expect no further action will be taken against me until the claim is substantiated and the debt will not be increased.

In the meantime I absolutely deny your claim that the amount claimed, or any amount at all, is due to you from me.

 

Yours faithfully

[Barnsley Boy]

We're going to send this letter, would people recommend this or can critique it at all?

 

 

I acknowledge receipt of your captioned letter. It seems that you have got my details from the DVLA and I confirm I am the keeper of the vehicle in question. You should take this matter up with the driver concerned.

 

You appear to claim that I, as keeper, am legally responsible for the alleged debt of £120. Please substantiate this claim with appropriate citations of case and/or statute law.

 

 

I expect no further action will be taken against me until the claim is substantiated and the debt will not be increased.

 

In the meantime I absolutely deny your claim that the amount claimed, or any amount at all, is due to you from me.

 

Yours faithfully

 

There is much debate as to whether to use the templates or just ignore completely. Both options have their merits and are equally valid responses.

If you do go down the route of choosing to respond to them as detailed above, I'd lose the sentence highlighted in red. It does not add to the response and gives the impression that you are concerned about the "debt". The PPC will latch onto this as a sign of weakness

[Reyzz]

Thanks a lot!

 

I'll take out the bit in red.

 

They maintain on their website they take all the tickets to court. Totally don't believe that.

[lamma]

the do not take all their tickets to court. we have seen too many of them...

 

But why should any particular phrase they utter, print or publish bear any relation to reality or the truth - it would stick out like a sore thumb among all the other rubbish.

[pin1onu]

the do not take all their tickets to court. we have seen too many of them...

Absolutely agree on this. I have been advising someone who contacted me by PM who is dealing with this mob. They have sent all kinds of threats but not actually followed through.

 

Just a word of warning they do lurk on these forums so be careful you don't post anything that they can use to identify you.

[Reyzz]

It's not even me, it's my girlfriend and I won't ever reveal my real name on here.

 

My girlfriend is terrified about getting a CCJ and her parents keep telling her to pay it 'just in case' which isn't helping at all.

[pin1onu]

It's not even me, it's my girlfriend and I won't ever reveal my real name on here.

 

My girlfriend is terrified about getting a CCJ and her parents keep telling her to pay it 'just in case' which isn't helping at all.

Just be careful you don't mention times,dates or locations as these can be used to identify the case as well.

 

Tell your girlfriend these companies rely on the fear factor. The truth is their tickets are virtually worthless. I'd get your girlfriend and her parents to have a look at the Private Parking Charges Guide in the stickies section. It does a really good job of explaining the reality and shows how unlikely it is that it will get to court

 

In the last few months there have been some high profile cases brought by the PPCs which have ended in defeat for them. Whilst County Court judgements don't set precedents the fact these defeats have occurred when people have used the defenses mentioned in the guide is proof that judges accept the arguements advanced. (Try a google search for Excel Mansfield)

 

Another thing to note is that in order to get a CCJ you need to lose the case in court and the vast majority of these case never go to court. In order for a CCJ to affect your credit rating you have to fail to pay the amount awarded by the court in the time stipulated by the court. A CCJ paid in time is marked satisfied on the register and will not affect your credit rating.

 

Also be aware even if they were to win they would only get the amount originally claimed for plus their filing costs (and they aren't guaranteed). Any extra add-ons would be removed from the claim.

[Al27]

Why even bother?

 

There's no point in sending the letter. You'll become a hooked fish.

 

If you ignore all letters and never respond they'll give up sooner.

[pin1onu]

Why even bother?

 

There's no point in sending the letter. You'll become a hooked fish.

 

If you ignore all letters and never respond they'll give up sooner.

Because under Civil Procedure Rules both parties in a dispute have a duty to attempt to resolve a dispute out of court.

 

If this does end up in court, then at least you've attempted to resolve the dispute. The other party may not see it that way but at least you've stated your position.

 

I would advocate at least one response and then ignoring anything apart from court papers.

 

Also some people do not feel comfortable about ignoring threats this at least gives them the feeling of taking control of the situation.

[Al27]

That infers that even if it went to court there would be a chance of them winning!

 

Chances of them taking an invisible man to court on a case they know won't win is a lot less likely to happen than somebody they know will take the bait. Not to mention, a punter who responds is always going to be a punter who could be forced into paying voluntarily and so will be worth pursuing.

 

Since the chances of court action are miniscule, but being pestered are a lot higher, I would always go for the ignore route.

[PPC Buster]

I would agree 100% with you. Ignore is always the best route.

[jamoe]

Hey there Reyzz, where are you with this. I am having a similar issue with this lot, they now have CSS Collect working on behalf of them sending me umpteen letters threatening to take me to court. Up to now i have just kept on telling CSS that "This alleged debt is in dispute. I have written to your principal on a number of occasions and they have failed to substantiate their claim. In the circumstances please refer this matter back to your client."

Are you at the same stage ???

[Barnsley Boy]

Hi Jamoe,

 

If you are using the templates there is no need to send each letter in the series more than once. If it obvious that they are ignoring your letters then stop sending, you've made your point. Save your real letter writing for complaining to trading standards, OFT etc.

[Duccio]

I have recently disputed a PCN from CP Plus. I wasn't the driver of the car - I wasn't even in the country- but thanks to this forum I decided not paid the fine. Anyway below is their response to my email which simply stated that: 'I was not the driver; that in the unlikely event of a court case I would use their CCT images to substantiate this fact; and that I suggest they do not contact me any further on this matter.

 

They already seem on the defensive with a threat to future clamping. And I never confirmed that I was the registered keeper or that the vehicle was offending anything ;-)

 

 

"

Thank you for your further email confirming that although the registered keeper of the offending vehicle you were not the driver at the time of the offence. We also note your unwillingness to pay the Charge Notice.

In the circumstances, please provide us with the driver's details in order that we may transfer liability for payment.

If you are unwilling to provide these details then we must draw your attention to the following points. Our client's conditions of contract relating to parking are detailed on the signs and referred to upon the Charge Notice. Failure to comply with the conditions of contract constitutes a breach of contract which entitles our clients to pursue the remedies referred to in the conditions of contract. These remedies include the right to clamp defaulting vehicles.

By virtue of the failure to pay the Charge Notice the breach of contract remains.

Accordingly, we must advise you that your vehicle registration has been recorded on our client's database as an unpaid offending vehicle that has parked in breach of the conditions of contract. If your vehicle is seen at any of the sites managed by our client then it will be clamped, pursuant to the conditions of contract. In order to secure release of the clamp you will be required to pay a release fee and also any outstanding parking Charge Notices."

[crem]

I believe it is illegal for them to clamp any vehicle, whether on their land or not, unless such vehicle is contravening any parking restrictions at the time of the clamping. Therefore, clamping as a result of a previous parking situation would be illegal and you could involve the police I believe.

[lamma]

vehicles can't default. their reply is pure and utter rubbish. designed to scare people into paying (no change there then). send theoir rubbish to TS and complain under Cunsumer regs 2008. also complain to the DVLA - re an 'approved operator' who is operating outside the BPA Code of practice. And complain to the BPA in the same wein. Don't bother wasting any more time with the PPC - as usual. VCS have completely sunk themselves, as expected.

[Barnsley Boy]

I'm no expert on the Data Protection Act but from my limited knowledge a complaint to the Information Commisioner and DVLA would be in order. I'm pretty sure that the cosy deal with the DVLA is for one use only. No storage of details for other purposes is permitted.

 

• If contract applies then it is with driver, how would VCS know it was same driver on different occasions - do they just know?
  
• How do they know car has not been sold on in the meantime?
  
• RK may have been informed of risk of clamping by letter but notification does not apply to driver.
  

Agreed it is all pure BS. However, it is intimidating to those not in the know. I urge Duccio to complain to bodies mentioned. Nothing may come of it this time but we owe it to the ill informed and the vulnerable to keep trying.

[lamma]

good point. email the DVLA and ask for copies of all the V888/2 information from all of the quoted dates. lets see how many requests they actually made.

[pin1onu]

Crem is absolutely right about the clamping.

 

Clamping is a remedy for trespass not for a breach of contract.

 

They have absolutely no right to clamp for debt. As the alleged driver has removed the vehicle the trespass has ended.

 

Any alleged debt is with the driver at the time not with the vehicle or the registered keeper. It is up to them to prove the contract exists and that means they have to persue the driver. If they don't know who that is (and you are under no obligation to name them) then they are knackered. The laws of this land state that a 3rd party cannot be held to a contract made by another person.

 

Lamma and B.B. have given some very sound advice about complaining to TS and the OFT.

 

If they do clamp you and you have not breached their terms (enforcable or not) on that particular occassion then you can have a field day with them in court.

 

If they do clamp for this reason then make sure that you report them to the SIA. They areand SIA approved contractor and would not want bother from the Authority.

Edited September 24, 2008 by pin1onu