MBNA/Virgin the story so far

[RedVixen]

Right I have a Virgin Credit card - usual story they started hiking up the interest rate - before they finally froze it the rate was 34%

 

There is just over £4200 on it.

 

I lost full time work in December and have been looking for work ever since - my earning potential isn't bad as it happens but so far this year it just hasn't worked for me.

 

Up until December - everything was up to date.

 

I had to stop paying my long term debts as I have struggled on part time and casual wages ever since with a short spell on JSA.

 

MBNA passed this onto Global advantage first - I ignored them - upset a couple of their less experienced call centre monkeys (I wasn't rude just firm) After about 90 days it seems to have been passed back to MBNA

 

Rather than go straight to heavy threats MBNA initially - twice now, offered me a 40% reduction as a settlement figure

 

CAB sent them a letter offering £5 per month until things improve. Thing is with the CAB I( I should have mentioned on the RBS thread) is they sent a statement with my earnings showing I was earning £800 per month. They did explain that as a temp this was variable hence the low offer but mentioned that I would top this up on a pro rata basis when I was able. But basically the excess income on this statement was £100 so guess what MBNA sent a letter out refusing the £5 but saying they would accept £33 - a third of the £100 (they know there are two other creditors). They ignored the statement about the wages being variable - the reality is I have earned less than half that over the last two months. Both parents have died in the last 2 months which I am not telling any of the creditors as I don't want them pushing for information about estates when I haven't got a clue myself. They also after a month responded directly to teh CAB telling t hem that I should pay 0.08% of my balance to avoid being defaulted and the debt being sold on - nothing to do with any MBNA convention and everything to do with the £100 they think i have spare every month because they haven't a clue how the real world works. Or rather assume that the whole world is as deceitful as they are

 

Anyway I sent a CCA and SAR request last week - they were signed for on the 16th June. I am hoping for statements as I want to work out exactly what I spent on the cards and work out what it should have cost me based on the original go to interest rate rather than the interest rate hikes they have imposed - if there is no CCA I will like to hear them explain to a judge why they are charging so much interest on an debt they can't enforce.

 

Also I will ask them to explain to the judge why since I am such a bad risk they increased the credit limit on sever occasions just after a payment blip (usually just a month or so as I tend to forget things). Now I hold my hands up to spending it but they can't exactly claim to be responsible lenders can they

 

Oh dear I do go on don't I :grin:

[RedVixen]

MBNA so far aren't calling me at all - admittedly I got quite arsey at one point but I only get a call every week or so at the moment - almost disappointed as the last two haven't bothered with security questions and I want something else to complain about

[RedVixen]

Bugger - one copy of CCA agreement received - the terms match and teh signature looks to be the actual one (I didn't sign the letters)

 

Oh well - I now know that the interest rate I actually signed up for was 13.9% before they froze it they had hiked it to 34% nearly 3 times - now thats hardly fair is it. I am waiting for the respose to teh SAR now - don't supposed that will come back so fast

[RedVixen]

Latest - I have received a letter telling me that MNBA are legally obliged to issue a default notice if I don't agree to their terms

 

They have also said that if I pay £14?? before the end of July they 'MAY' consider writing off the rest. The letter then goes on to say that they MAY consider a payment plan below the minimum payment level andif I don't contact them before the end of July they will legally assin the debt to a DCA. Now I am assuming that the figure quoted is more than they will get if they sell it on.

 

I will also be reconnecting my home broadband as I need a second opinion on the CCA (moving soon so didn't see the need) - there are no personal details of mine on apart fron the singiture and date

 

They received the SAR on about the 18th June so that still hasn't been responded to.

 

Does the SAR put the account in dispute anyway. I will send a section 10 notice will that 'technically' prevent them them selling the debt at this time. I know they may well ignore this.

 

Ironically after a small windfall I could actually pay the ammount quoted in one go - I was going to spread it around my creditors but the idea of getting MNBA off my back appeals - its the 'may' which is making me think this would not be a good idea

 

So section 10 and a letter regarding a few other things such as why did thye up the interest rate so fast - now I know why they did it but will they admitt is. A reminder that the SAR si due and hopefully comment on teh CCA - i will sort the bill out later today and should be back online on Sat with a scanner handy

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello RedVixen!

 

Ironically after a small windfall I could actually pay the ammount quoted in one go - I was going to spread it around my creditors but the idea of getting MNBA off my back appeals - its the 'may' which is making me think this would not be a good idea

 

I wouldn't rush to put MBNA at the top of your repayment List, as that is what their Threats-R-Us System wants.

 

I agree that the best strategy is to post that Agreement here on CAG (with personal details removed), and let people here have a good look at it. More eyes can often see issues and flaws that you yourself missed.

 

One big question before even seeing it is...have they actually got the Original, Signed in Ink Agreement. If it's a bunch of scans, then that immediately puts in doubt if what they sent were ever part of the "Four Corners" of the Original.

 

In Court, they would need to produce the Original. Some Judges should know this but don't, but the fact remains that only the Original should be acceptable in Court.

 

MBNA have a silly habit of Scanning everything, which is all fine and dandy for routine Business correspondence, but it's not acceptable for Statutory Documents such as live Credit Agreements. The Originals should be kept while the Agreement is in force. After an Agreement expires, then they should still keep the Agreement for Six Years to comply with, say, Anti-Money Laundering Legislation.

 

Scanning and Shredding an Original Live Agreement is just not a clever move, especially while the Agreement is Live, and it's still not a clever move for Six Years thereafter.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[RedVixen]

Thanks BRW

 

Councile tax is top of my list I can clear that as well.

 

The agreement was sent back within a week of me sending the request with just a compliments slip - no accompanying letter insisting it was correct and it just covers the top third of a sheet of A4 on both sides.

 

As I said the only info about me is the signature and date, it is my signature and I didn't sign the request so they clearly have that on file somewhere

 

Is teh S10 a good move as well?

[citizenB]

MBNA should definitely be down the bottom of the list for any repayments. Your priority expenses, ie council tax/rent/mortgage/utilities should be up the top.

[RedVixen]

ermm for various other reasons - rent is not top of my list and if you saw the place you would understand - should have a housing benefit claim going through to sort most of that out.

 

Moving very soon anyway

[RedVixen]

Finally I have scanned the agreement and I suspect BRW may well be right

 

The scans are as it is with the thick black lines - it was returned within days of the request being made but covers barely 1/3 of both sides of an A4 piece of paper - i can't read half of the one I have my hands the text is too small. It also came with no fanfare just a compliments slip and MBNA just after this offered to 'maybe' let me have a full and final for am ammount that is just over a third of the balance on my statement. SO I suspect they don't have the original - It was taken out in 2004. Interestingly I can't see anything about PPI which was applied at first but has been cancelled, I was a student at the time so as mis sold that. If this isn't enforceable the 12 + 2 + 30 will pass next week sometime I think - it was signed for on the 16th June a SAR was also included and they haven't responded to that yet

 

 

 

 

Second half

 

 

 

 

Aren't they supposed to keep the originals for six years in case of money laundering?

 

Looking forward to getting the SAR response

[Hopeful1]

Hi Redvixen

 

What a great piece of paperwork that is....not

 

The missing bit from the top was probably an application form. No wonder they keep offering such a huge reduction.

 

You are quite right about them keeping documents for 6 years. However, as it is unlikely they got you to sign a proper agreement, they are not likely to have it are they?

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello RedVixen!

 

These look to be poor Microfiche Scans...two of them!

 

There's no obvious link that I can see that relates them, apart from approx size and shape. So, although the 2nd one appears to have what could be Prescribed Terms, this 2nd Scan could be from anywhere.

 

I can just about read them but, if any key areas can't be read, then they could be saying anything.

 

So far, the key observations seem to be:

 

(1) They don't have the Original, so will have a hard time complying with:

 

CPR Practice Direction 16 7.3

 

"...and the original(s) should be available at the hearing"

 

(2) The two Scans do not seem to relate via any Reference, so it appears to be a bad Copy of an Application Form, plus some Terms that could've come from another Document. It seems to be torn off in about the same size shape as the other bit, but no reference numbers link them that I can see.

 

(3) If any of this is hard/impossible to read, then the copies fall foul of:

 

Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983.

 

2 Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

 

The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily distinguishable from the .

 

If you cannot read them now, you never will, as they only seem to have poor copies. Bad copies stay bad copies without the Original... see (1) above!

 

Hope this helps.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[RedVixen]

Thanks BRW

 

Just moved house and they are now out of time for theSAR I sent them which will hopefully reveal more - thing is theree was about 4 days between me leaving and teh redirect kicking in but I haven't received it so will be writing to tell them as much. They have been suspiciously generous in their offers which makes me fairly confident that they don;t have teh original

 

I should be back up and running with a home PC tomorrow so will get the non compliance letter out to them to see what turns up - if they did send it in that gap they \should have teh information ready to send out again

[Salfordian]

I have a debt with MBNA/Virgin and my CCA/Application form does not have the credit limit on it and looks very different to that. I have my own questionsin relation to mine but have a look at my thread here and compare it to mine if you want.

[RedVixen]

Cheers Salfordian - I will look at that as soon as I have more time - just moved house and don't have web access at home

 

Update - the debt has been assigned to equidebt

 

 

No response to the SAR so will be contacting MBNA about that

 

I assumme I send the Prove it letter to equidebt as they don't seen to have the original CCA??

[RedVixen]

Just thought I haven't received a default notice either yet

 

ANd I actually paid more than MBNA wanted to avoid the debt being sold on so they playing silly buggers

[RedVixen]

Today I received a default notice form equidebt

 

I am not sure which letter to send them now I am thinking that I should send the I am bemused you got this as MBNA failed to do this and that so the account is in dispute. Should I adapt that to point out why I feel MBNA haven't complied with the CCA request?

 

Plus a line stating that I will not comunicate by phone both of their letters so far state that a phone call is the only way to sort this out - well tough on that one - they don't have my new phone numbers which is kind of nice

MBNA will receive a letter chasing the SAR information

[emmaf01]

Exactly right, time for the bemused letter again!

 

And I feel sorry for whoever has your old number now.

[RedVixen]

Right so bemused letter sent

 

Today I got this

 

Has anyone else had one of these and does anyone know how fast Equidebt tend to move. Do they still quote the client name even when they have bought the debt allegedly - and isn't court supposed to be used to offset loses how can they sue you for the full ammount when they only paid about a fifth of the ammount - isn't that perjury or something.

 

I certainly know when teh maximum they would have paid for it was as they surely couldn't have paid more than MBNA's last reduced offer to me could they

 

[RedVixen]

I am so proud I finally remembered how to create rectangles and things then fill them in although its not as much fun as scribbling all over the stuff youwant to hide

[emmaf01]

Looks like they may have crossed in the post- when was your bemused letter signed for?

[palomino]

Does the SAR put the account in dispute anyway. I will send a section 10 notice will that 'technically' prevent them them selling the debt at this time. I know they may well ignore this.

 

No - the SAR is simply a request, no more no less.

It doesn't prevent them selling the debt on.

 

The subject access request is simply a request for information. You can make this request to any organisation that holds some form of your personal information. A couple of examples : you could request a list of books you have borrowed from your library; you could even request a list of all the bookings you have made at your local gym.

The request can be made to an organisation you are no longer dealing with, although you might not obtain as much information as you want because old, non-essential data gets deleted. Even banks delete closed account records after a certain number of years.

 

In the case of a credit card company that sells your debt to a DCA you can quite validly make a request to the c/c company to get all the information they hold on you up to the time the debt was sold and also make a request to the DCA for information from the time they bought the debt.

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello RedVixen!

 

Sorry for slow response.

 

The bemused letter to Equidebt should do the trick, but it might be worth sending them their very own s78(1) CCA Request as well, albeit that it's not strictly needed if you feel the MBNA are still in Default of your original s78(1) CCA Request.

 

Monitor your Calls, and log any that you do get, as Equidebt will probably hit you with a few days of rapid fire Telephone Harassment.

 

They tend to act quickly, mainly because they seem to handle so many Debts that they try to rush them through fast.

 

The key is to throw a spanner in their works from day one, as that trips them up whilst in full cocky stride, and then they flounder, as most Consumers don't fight back.

 

A S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to Equidebt is also perhaps worth considering, as it would be good to see the whole picture from both the MBNA and Equidebt sides, to see how the Debt has been Assigned.

 

MBNA should've issued a valid Default Notice, and then they should've sent you a Notice of Assignment. How that was delivered, or not, may tell you if it was an equitable or absolute Assignment.

 

If absolute, then I understand they should've served this personally, or at least sent it via a Recorded means. If it either didn't arrive or was sent via Post, then it could be that Equidebt only have an equitable Assignment, so cannot actually take you to Court, only the MBNA can do that.

 

But if they are trying to say it's an absolute Assignment, then Equidebt can potentially take action, but you need to make sure they:

 

(a) have an Enforceable Agreement.

 

(b) have the right to do so.

 

If the alleged Account was in dispute with the MBNA when they handed it to Equidebt, then that is going to complicate matters for both MBNA and Equidebt. Good.

 

Time for some letters I think, and be on standby for a CCA to Equidebt, and possibly also a SAR too.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[RedVixen]

Thanks guys

 

Emma - there was no crossing in the post I will check delivery of bemused letter today

 

MBNA are in default of both CCA and SAR request now - they won't be calling as they don't have my phone number.

 

Now I have moved recently and there was a 3 day period when the post redirect wasn't in force but as MBNA sold teh debt after this I think they didn't send the SAR info and I did not get a letter of assignment from MBNA (just one from Equidebt) which surely would have been dated the same day as the debt was sold on so they haven't sent it. Would that suggest that the assignment isn't complete?

 

They are still mentioning the client name and the account number is on it.

 

My biggest headache is how to word the I don't believe the CCA you sent complies with the act - it came with a handwritten compliments slip and nothing else - no statements if I have read other threads correctly this in itself is a non compliance

 

I am no where near as scared as I was at the idea of going to court as I have made payments according to my means when I could though I won't make any more until I have all teh information I need - charges and PPI need to come off the balance and if they don't have teh original CCA which I doubt I will challenge the interest rate though not what I spent on it - I will pay back what I owe

 

I sure as hell will not agree to pay equidebt 4K when I know damn well they bought it for less than 1.5K

[ladybird17]

Just for your info - this is pretty much the same as my "agreement" - it has been for Counsel's opinion the result of which is that I have now been awarded legal aid to fight MBNA as Counsel' opinion is that "NO, NO , it is NOT an agreement"!

[RedVixen]

Thanks ladybird that is comforting to know. I know there are no absolutes in this process but any ammo that helps keep you fighting is good.

 

It is almost getting to the point where I am thinging bring it on as far as court action is concerned at least it will bring and end to the crap.