advice re cabot taking me to court

[leggy123]

I have received forms in post today , a claim form ,claimant being Cabot Financial uk ltd.(to attend Northhampton CCBC. Issue date 17th June. Since receiving it at lunchtime I have been in a state of panic and reading through threads but quite honestly I am so confused...Can someone advise me in simple terms what I have to do.

 

The debt of £15000 was taken out with The Royal Bank of Scotland in 1997 in joint names. The interst and insurance brought the total to £29000. I wish at that time small print had been read but I was so desperate at the time. I remember signing a document which was delivered by a motorcyclist to our house and signed with him as a witness. Very peculiar thinking back.

 

I am the defendant and not my husband , why would that be as it is joint.

 

We have paid £11000 back and offered full and final settlement , twice of £5000 to previos owners of debt and twice to Cabot who have not even acknowledged the offers.

 

We feel that we were totally conned in the first instance as £14000 interest charges are extortionate.

 

I think the debt has been sold on several times and now we are landed with this claim.

 

I feel like defending myself , because when in a vunerable position we do not always see things clearly and the interest charges and ins alone are equvilent to the amt borrowed.

 

Can anyone advise me please?

[42man]

OK....try and relax, you are amongst other people who are / have been in similar situations to yourself....firstly you must acknowledge the claim within 14 days on the date of the papers. Then you have another 14 days to submit a defence (Are there some excessive charges that have been added to the account ?)...spend a bit of time reading on here as much as you can......

 

If it was me in your position I would send this letter to the opposing solicitor (or whoever is the name on the court papers) (send it by recorded delivery and do not hand sign it) as soon as possible....

 

In the XXXX County Court

Claimant -v- (YOUR NAME)

Claim Number: (CLAIM NUMBER)

 

 

Dear XXX

 

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION

 

I have received a recent court claim from your organisation. In order to file a defence and counter claim I require some information. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below.

 

The information must be furnished within fourteen days of the receipt of this letter. If you fail to comply, this will be reported to the Court, a copy of this letter will be provided as evidence to the same and an Order enforcing your compliance will be sought.

 

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

 

a. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

b. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with *********.(AMEND TO THE COMPANY NAME)

c. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

d.Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

e. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

f. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

g. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

h. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

i. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

3. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court.

 

 

I will require this information within the next fourteen days. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it will be reported to the Court that you are trying to frustrate proceedings and denying me the opportunity to file a defence and counter claim.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

XXXX (type, don't sign).

[leggy123]

Thank you. Will keep you posted and I am now set to type the letter as suggested by you.We do feel we may have a chance of some settlememt as you can see the amount owed are bank charges. Are we being too optomistic?

[leggy123]

I am going to CAB this am for advice. I have noticed on past paperwork that the copy of the CCA which Cabot sent me through does not have my signature on it, is this significant?The debt at some point was sold to Blair Oliver and Scott Ltd. We did pay the a monthly sum which we could afford and then fell into financial difficulties. We heard nothing from June 2006 until Feb 2207Als a letter came from Cabot out of the blue, saying they had attempted many times to collect the debt but this was their first letter to me in Feb 2007 , i then received another letter a week later " We can confirm that the account is for a Bank of Scotland loan taken out jointly" they are persuing ME for the money by the way"Bank of Scotland last received a payment on 13th January 2005. The account had previuosly been in default on October 1999. The account was then sold to Cabot Financial on 11th July 2006."Were they operating as Cabot at this point?We have attempted to settle the debt on 2 occasions but they have not acknowledged this at all and then we received the blue papers which we are dealing with straightaway.I would like to defend this and have sent the letter off which was suggested by your kindself, thank you so much

[leggy123]

I have posted the letter and just been to CAB. After waiting 2 hours, I eventually saw someone who really could not advise. She told me to ring Cabot because I had not received any acknowledgement regarding an offer to them. She told me that would put me in a better position in court. I said that the last thing we wanted was a charging order and she was n't sure if they could do that, I know they can and that's what I want to avoid. We would like to settle out of court and offer a settlement but they don't want that. they seem to be after the full amount £19000, which agaim may I stress is all interest charges.

 

I have been looking at past papers and I noticed the CCA which they sent me has no signature on the bottom. Also 4 offers of settlement have been made , 2 to Balir, Oliver , scott ltd and 2 to Cabot as mentioned.

Why won't they at least consider a compromise?? I suppose they are entitled to the full amt.

 

Never thought it would get this far and although I want to defend my case, I am very nervous.

[creditcardmug]

Hi, try not to worry all of us here have been through this.

You need to do as 42man says and file the acknowledgement of service, then send the request for information letter to the other side, type your name don't sign, send by special delivery if you can.

 

Can you post up the Particulars of Claim, or just type what it says?

 

They can't get a charging order unless and until they get a ccj and you miss a payment on it.

 

Just keep coming back here to update your thread and get advice, theres lots of helpful and very knowledgeable people on here.

 

CCM

[leggy123]

Date of original loan September 1997

Advance £15000

Insurance 1545.00

Charge £12542.50

 

The loan is in joint names and has been sold from original Capital Bank to Blair, Oliver, Scott and finally to Cabot on 11th July 2006

 

At the time I had financial difficulties and subsequently entered into an IVA arrangement in 1999 for these debts. I did not include the Capital Bank as this was joint, so that my husband was not involved. I was discharged successfully from the IVA. We had to inrease our mortgage to close the IVA.

 

Repayments were made by my husband on the Capital Bank loan up to about 2 yrs ago. Although it was a token amt. it was agreed by the creditors.

 

We made 2 offers of settlement to Blair Oliver Scott of £5000 from a third party. We have made 2 offers to Cabot of £2000 by a third party, no acknowledgement of these were made. We then received the Claim Form from the County Court in Nottingham.

 

I have gone x directory because of the phone calls we were receiving daily and messages being left from Peter anderson. Since my husband stopped paying, all correspondence has been directed to me and my name is on the claim form.

 

We have sent the letter , requesting discovery of documents, as advised.

 

We recognise the 14 days and will return the form, in the meantime requesting a further 14days extension, due to our admitting only part of the claim. I guesstimate £6000, but I'm not sure how the CC will view this.

 

 

particulars of Claim as follows;

 

The claimant is part of the Cabot Financial Group and has purchased the debt schedules below. Despite requests for payment the Defendant has failed to pay the sum of £18947.58 in relation to the

Defendant's

Bank of Scotland

Loan account number ....

And the claimant claims : the sum of 19257.58 together with interest under section 69 of the Count Courts Act 1984 and costs

[leggy123]

Has anybody got any advice, will be defending my case in court. A week has passed since we i wrote to Cabot requesting Information. Heard nothing as yet.

[miss muppet]

Hi leggy, presuming you sent 42 man's letter, if so and they haven't replied, all to the better - did you send it recorded? Don't panic and just get all the paperwork together in a file one for the DJ and one for you.

[Percival Wigglesbottom]

I have noticed on past paperwork that the copy of the CCA which Cabot sent me through does not have my signature on it, is this significant?

 

Yes it is ..

 

The Courts Power of Enforcement

 

The courts powers of enforcement where agreements are improperly executed by way of section 65 CCA 1974 are subject to certain qualifying factors. Under section 127 (3) Consumer Credit Act 1974 the requirements are laid out clearly what is required for the court to be able to enforce the agreement where section 65(1) has not been complied with

The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

------

 

The House of Lords in the case of Wilson v First County Trust Ltd - [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) Ruled that a credit agreement must contain the prescribed terms and must be signed in the prescribed manner for the agreement to be enforceable and set out the consequences of non compliance with the 1974 Act.i refer to the judgment of Lord Nicholls of Birkenhead below....

 

 

The court's powers under section 127(1) are subject to significant qualification in two types of cases. The first type is where section 61(1)(a), regarding signing of agreements, is not complied with. In such cases the court 'shall not make' an enforcement order unless a document, whether or not in the prescribed form, containing all the prescribed terms, was signed by the debtor: section 127(3). Thus, signature of a document containing all the prescribed terms is an essential prerequisite to the court's power to make an enforcement order.

---

 

You couldn't scan and post this cca could you ? .. minus identifying information.

 

Did you receive a letter before action , notice of assignment, default notice ?

 

Not sure how it works with you admitting to this £6000 thou , you have already done this formally ?

Edited June 25, 2008 by Percival Wigglesbottom

[Percival Wigglesbottom]

Just wondering , with the original date you signed the loan being so long ago, you think there was any period of 6 years that you did not pay or make any acknowledgment to them ?

 

If you could get a statute barred claim in, it might take care of this £6000 you have admitted to . Does admitting to £6000 to the court still come under the statute of limitation , ie you can admit to any part or all of the debt but its still statute barred . I can't see why not .

 

But the cca defence, thats kind of an all or nothing defence, not sure how it works with a partial admittance. Someone should be able to help on that thou.

 

 

Is there a way you can withdraw this 6000 admittance , anyone know how that could be achieved? It couldn't have been sent off that long ago.. might want to phone up the court, then put in a full defence, neither admit nor deny but put the claimant to strict proof of their assertions.

 

Are court cases still being stayed over the OFT test case, does this fit into a category that could be ?

Edited June 25, 2008 by Percival Wigglesbottom

[leggy123]

Mislead you, the lower part of the agreement is blanked off so the document sent to me does not show signatures etc.

 

No letter specifically stating that "I have defaulted and Count Court Action is to be taken".Just threats over the years more recently in April 08

Decided to defend action in full. Have made offers before to both assignees, stated "without prejudice", no response ,no counter offer.The £6,000.00 was just a thought as a settlement offer. As I say I am defending in full.I have made no offer in response to CC Claim form, or to Cabot since May 2008.There is no period six years or over to bar action.

Defence is based upon the unfairness of the loan , RBOS either failed to do a credit check or if they did they ignored it. Akin to the sub prime lending problem at the moment.

I have typed up the defence and scheduled docs( letters) I intend to rely upon in my defence.

Any advice welcome

[Percival Wigglesbottom]

You did not receive a default notice, letter before action , notice of assignment ? , could defend on those as well . And illegal charges . Have a look at this defence regarding default notices.

 

Might be worth you posting the cca .

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/146965-dca-court-claim-recieved.html#post1552965

 

section 30 on.

 

and here :

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/146400-robinson-way-chasing-old-2.html#post1571590

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/145077-help-4.html#post1568166

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2759&d=1212169348

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2757&d=1212168995

 

 

a holding defence you can adapt :

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/142804-speedtrip-lloyds-credit-card.html#post1499656

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/81224-spiritgirl-various-dcas-27.html#post1278595

 

Maybe asked to get it deferred until you receive the information from the cpr, you want to know the amount is correct, and not containing illegal charges. The cca you have , when did you make the request for it ? If it was a long time ago, you might want to send another cca s77/78 request.

Edited June 26, 2008 by Percival Wigglesbottom

[leggy123]

Thank you so much. I have plenty to get my teeth into.

 

Will respond after I have digested it all!!

[leggy123]

I am useing The Robinson's standard letter. I shall await the response from Cabot to my requests for information before I amend if need be and send off.

 

I note that Cabot have referred to a loan with The Bank of Scotland. The copy of the loan agreement I have in my possession refers to the lender as Capital Bank PLC.

 

Comments please?

[leggy123]

I have received the letter from CABOTS today , 1st July, deadline for response was tomorrow 2nd July. The letter from them is dated 28.06.2008 and states that they have "ordered all the documents available to us" and as soon as they arrive they will forward them to me, whenever that may be.. In the meantime their helpful customer advisors are available if we have any queries.

 

Is this a blip on thier part to aid my defence in court?

[leggy123]

I received a county court claim form on dated 17th June from Northhanpton Bulk Centre. Cabot as the claiment and I sent my defence back to the court all in the time specified. Cabot did not respond to any of my requests for documents , statements etc.

 

I have heard nothing and rang the court yesteday and they informed me that nothing was happening with the claim. Cabot had not responded to my defence.

 

What do I do next just sit and wait or can I report them to the Trading Standards. Please advise me.

[42man]

You could send the court this...

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

The Claimant has failed to contact yourselves within 28 days after receiving my defence.

On the 4th of April 2008 I requested under the Civil Procedure rules that the claimant furnish me with certain information (see attached letter) which would prove that they had the legal right to undertake Court action against myself with respect to the alleged debt as well as to permit me to submit an appropriate defence, to this date I have received nothing from the claimant.

In light of the fact that the claimant has failed to contact yourselves within the prescribed time period and has failed to provide me with the Statutory required proof that they can undertake Court action against me with regards to the alleged debt I respectfully request that the Court Strikes the Claim out.

[leggy123]

Thank you for your previous advice.

 

Claim issue date 17th June 2008.

 

Request for Information to Cabot dated 18th June 2008

 

Cabot wrote 28th June 2008 advising documents have been ordered and will be..as soon as available.

 

Response from HMCS dated 3rd July 2008 "claimant must inform court within 28 days ...claim stayed..."

My defence dated 2nd July stated amongst other things that we had not received the information requested.

 

 

Things have moved on; I telephoned Northhampton Bulk Centre to enquire how my case was proceeding.

They informed me that after receiving the completed Allocation Questionaiire from myself and also one from the Claimant, the case was transferred to my local court.

I had not received a Questionnaire.

 

I received a response as follows from Court Services in a letter dated 18th Sept 2008:

 

The claimants solicitor issued the claim on line 17th June 2008, but in error (sic) said they were acting for the defendant.This is how the details were entered onto the computer system at Northampton Bulk Centre.

 

The claim was served on you by the claimants solicitor (Hodsons) and you Acknowledge this and filed your defence with in the time set down

The claimants recognised their error(sic) and filed a notice of acting at Northampton, but the information on the computer was not amended.

 

Allocation Questionnaires were sent out by Northampton.( I never received one)

 

The Claimants completed Questionnaire was received by Northampton, but it was marked as coming from the Defendants Solicitor(sic)

The case was then transferred to ------- County Court on 14th August and only once we had received the case was the error and confusion realised.

 

The file has been referred to a District Judge at ------- who has made further directions, a copy of which you will receive with in the next week.

 

I am sorry etc.

 

 

I wrote on the 21st Sept.and confirmed that I had not received an Allocation Questionnaire

 

I have received today 1st Oct a Notice of Fast Track from the district Judge dated 20th Sept.envelope post marked 29th Sept.

 

The order dated 5th Sept. has 7 points

 

The one that has caught my eye is "Because this Order has been made by the Court without considering representation from the parties, the parties have the right to apply to have the order set aside, varied or stayed.A party wishing should.........within 7 days of service of this order.......

 

Question: Do I ask for it to be set aside ,varied or stayed Which one? and is it on the grounds that Cabots failed to provide the documentation within the original time frame?I took previous advice and wrote to the Court advising this.

 

Question; On a procedural matter? I have never filled out an Allocation Questionnaire and the Court has admitted there was an error on Hodsons part.Surley the error should have been brought to the Judge's attention, how can he make an order when clearly the information he received is erroneous?

 

Question; Do I ask for it to be set aside, varied or stayed on both points.

 

Note- I have still not received the infomation originally requested within my letter dated 28th June 2008 to Cabot.

 

Many thanks and I look forward to a response.

[PossVox]

Hi,

 

Subscribing as I too am waiting for a response to my CCA and CPR requests from Crapbot who issued a claim against me 2 weeks ago.

 

Good Luck.

 

PV

[creditcardmug]

Suggest you write to the court asking that both parties complete an AQ, in the light of all the errors that have occurred so far.

 

I would take the letter to the court personally tomorrow.

 

There has obviously been a serious procedural problem here, and the court should do all it can to correct the situation, IMHO.

[leggy123]

Have drafted a letter to the Court and will deliver by hand tomorrow.

 

Can I suggest within the letter to the court, that the order and notice of allocation to the fast track, be considered : Void, suspended, withdrawn,set aside,varied or stayed.

 

Point 7 within the order talks about the right to have the order set aside, varied or stayed.

 

Hope you reply soon so that I can complete my letter to send