reliable collections and Fashion World account

[blind-as-a-bat]

Well if they follow the same pattern you will now just get threats of doorstep collections at the rate of about one a week.

 

Now as they cannott send anyone to visit without prior agreemant with you, these are not worth the paper they are printed on, and sure enough no one has visited me, yet.

 

But the the tone of the letters are enough to cause distress as denied in our letter from S Beat by claiming section "(a) the processing may cause damage or distress, " has not been breached, the question is how to get that point home as i dont think they will ever listen.

 

There is also the question of what they claim they may be recording on your CRF is damageing, so yet again proves section a, And to date they have failed to supply proof permision was given to share said data, implied or otherwise

 

But what exactly is seen as permision by the CRA? Here is part of the reply from one of them when i asked that question

 

When an individual signs a financial agreement (usually under the terms of the Consumer Credit Act), one of the terms and conditions of that agreement is that the company concerned reserve the right to pass details of the account to a credit reference agency. By signing that agreement, you are agreeing to those terms and conditions. Therefore, for us to hold financial information about you, you will have signed a contract consenting to that company passing information onto ourselves.

Please note, that if a company cannot provide you with any actual evidence of your initial consent, this does not necessarily mean that they have to remove the data from your credit report.

For example, if a company can demonstrate that an account was being paid on time for a number of months/years prior to falling into arrears, this is often seen as evidence that the individual concerned must have consented to the terms and conditions of the contract.

Furthermore, a company will only open an account if the applicant agrees to their terms and conditions so, unless the account was opened fraudulently, the account holder must have agreed to the standard terms and conditions for that type of account.

Therefore, as long as the company terms and conditions specify that they reserve the right to pass account information to a credit reference agency, a period of meeting contractual obligations, or simply opening the account, will often be deemed as evidence of consent to those terms and conditions.

Edited December 7, 2008 by blind-as-a-bat

[abroadgirl]

Hi Baab, Thankyou For Posting A Reply Yes Me Too Have Had Threatning Door Step Collection Gheee I Really Thought Those Days Were Gone Seemingly Not?

I Too Have Ignored Them With In Red Cap Letters Doorstep Collections

Huh

Abg

[hillards]

Great - they have agreed that the document is unenforceable, and that you do not have to pay. Despite that they are trying to get you to make arrangements... You don't have to, that's just them trying it on. They even say that it's YOUR decision if you choose not to pay them.

 

Note that they quote the Data Protection Act with the clause "(a) the processing may cause damage or distress" - you have suffered distress through their constant barrage of telephone calls and letters. You will continue to be distressed if they contact you again now they've agreed their paperwork is unenforceable.

 

The 'pipeline' mailings are their company mailshots, special offers, catalogue updates. Not letters from DCA's. If Moorcroft have contacted you recently about this particular account then it may be wise to write a short letter to them to say that solicitors acting for J D Williams have advised you that they have ceased collection activity. Or just see if you hear from Moorcroft again, and reply to tell them that.

 

I'm not altogether sure about how you stand regarding the default on your credit reference file, it may be possible to get this revoked but I'll let someone else pick up on that.

 

A reply to S Beat to thank them for agreeing that the paperwork is unenforceable and that they accept that they should cease collection activity may be an end to all of this. I would also advise them that passing this account to a DCA would be seen as harrassment and further distress to you personally.

[blind-as-a-bat]

Acording to the reply from the CRA, whether an agreement exists or not they can record information.

 

They fail to address the accuracy of that information where there is no agreement by claiming its irrelevent

 

In short if the creditor claims the terms and conditions where this when you first order so you agreed to them by ordering thats good enough to class the record as correct, a valid credit agreement has nothing to do with it apparently

 

Thats how i saw the reply i got, so rock and hard place on that one:rolleyes:

[abroadgirl]

dear hillards tysvvm to be honest i didnt really understand the letter but once again thankyou to you for your reply as i now understand it tyvm

what kind of letter od i send back to them please i know i am thick lol

as they await my reply and will add to the fact about credit ref file?

ty hillards

take care

abg

does this now mean i dont pay if so i have won havent I or have i not as along the way not only did the finacial advisor request to write off the debt but i too sent the letter 3 times to them

tysvm hillards

[hillards]

...does this now mean i dont pay if so i have won havent I or have i not...

They agree that the agreement is unenforceable and that 'collection activity will cease' - they are not going to chase you for it.

 

They claim that you have not proved that they should stop processing your data under the DPA, section 10. Here's a useful link to that bit of law - Data Protection Act 1998 (c. 29). I would suggest that they are causing continued distress by failing to comply with your request under section 10.

 

The letter I usually refer people to is by maroondevo52 and can be found at http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/170674-reply-cca.html#post1840880. In your case it may need a bit of modification to take out the bit that says "As you may not be aware ," and start that line with "Failure to", as they have already said that they (think they) know what they are talking about.

 

maroondevo52's letter makes it clear that you do not agree with their decision to continue to process your data. It also tells them they should not pass the (alleged) debt to a third party, like a debt collection agency, or register a default against you with the credit reference agencies.

 

Change "After taking advice, I am of the opinion that your continued pursuit is in violation of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well as breaching a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines." to be "After taking advice, I am of the opinion that your continued pursuit would be in violation of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well as breaching a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines." - again, because they have acknowledged that they will stop persuing you.

 

I would also take out the line that starts "I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue" as they are not simply sending template letters, which is what that one refers to.

 

Read a bit further down that thread to post 4, maroondevo52 explains what the failure to produce a CCA means, and warns not to try and take it further.

 

You started out on this matter to stop them hassling you for payments that you could not afford to pay. They have agreed to stop any attempts on collection. By sending the reply letter you are making it clear that you want it to end here and now. They should accept that.

 

The only bit remaining is the moral approach, as I don't see CAG as being a means to avoid paying debt altogether. The hounds have been called off, they say they cannot enforce the debt, and you've never disagreed that you had the goods.

 

If this were me, personally, and I was still dealing with the company who had supplied me with the goods (NOT a DCA!) I would have offered a token payment as a gesture, to be taken as full and final payment on this account. I would also explain that I cannot afford to pay more, but wish to see an amicable end to the matter. I would also tell them that the only reason things have gone this far is because their attitude to debt recovery stinks and it was the only way to stop the harrassment.

 

If I offered £5 as F&F then it's a fiver more than they could have hoped for and may even bring a smile to their faces...?

 

But, that's me I suppose. I'm not saying you should do that. It's my way of letting everyone reading this thread know that I don't mind helping, where I can, but that CAG is NOT all about getting out of paying. It's the collections people who cause the hassle that makes people want to stop them calling and writing. The information CAG provides will achieve that, as you've found out. In a way it serves them right that they should be slapped round the face with a wet fish and told to stop being a pain in the rear, but I like to be fair with them too.

 

Sorry - maybe the spirit of Christmas is getting to me, but I havn't touched a drop...

[abroadgirl]

once again i cannot thank you enough

i have got a letter from that gentilman the manager who is looking into everything for me in cahoot tyvvm

now the other jdwilliams i have had 3 letters from moorcroft hugs abg

[abroadgirl]

hi again hillards

ghee im sorry to be thick again lol i have been in macroons but as there is a few letters ive read them all they are v.good but now here come thicko me again

i dont know which one it is i have to send s.beat?

please can you tell me which one or do i send them the lot

tyvvvvmia

hugs

abg

[blind-as-a-bat]

Well reliable has just this morning threatened to assign the non existant agreemant to one of four lucky third party's again, thats twice now, not sure what you could put in a letter to this lot that would make any differance, except a stick of dynomite that is:p

 

However as that is an action they cant take, the only discription for that letter is a threat to cause damage or distress, so undiniably blows S Beat's argument apart

 

Have you had that letter yet abroadgirl?

 

TS and the OFT would have field day with this lot, if they actually did what they should

[hillards]

i dont know which one it is i have to send s.beat?

The one at http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/170674-reply-cca.html#post1840880, post 2, is the one I was looking at - with the modifications I suggested? Send that first and if they continue to be absolute plonkers we'll have to see what else can be sent to them - I'm thinking about reindeer dung...

 

Because letters have very strong legal implications, I don't write them for people, or even quote those from other threads within a message I create. I will point people to ones that are in other threads where they are suitable to re-use, and note any suggested changes. Howeve,r as I often mention, I'm not a legal advisor so it's really up to the individual if they want to do as I suggest.

 

If you take the letter created by maroondevo52 and make the changes I put in post 32 on the 9th you should be OK. Ignore most of my message, you're only looking from where it says "The letter I usually ..." down to "...which is what that one refers to.", paragraphs 3 to 6.

[abroadgirl]

hi all

i sent all the documents, letters etc like you all have, they havent even halved mine as i am disputeing the tatal amount which has risen in cahrges and interest over 2 thousand 500, and its all charges .

 

from a few hundred pounds into the thousands i am now thinking of takeing them to court with distress etc all this has caused me hillards is up to date with everything regarding this will get the moorcroft letter in here

 

they sent me a blank copy of a agreement nothing signed or filled in apart from them adding my address full stop.

 

I am going to copy what they have sent with my payments and all there charges and interest etc

will go and get the letter

tyavvm

abg.

 

hi blind as a bat

i am going to put a couple in here for you as your going throu what i was going throu lol

*****************************************************

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

With reference to my previous letters, I wish to draw you attention to your company's lack of compliance with my legal request.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8.

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.

 

As you may not be aware , failure to comply with this request within 12 working days renders the alleged debt UNENFORCEABLE in law.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a compliant credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* may not pass the account to a third party.

* may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that your continued pursuit is in violation of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well as breaching a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

 

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you would prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I await your rapid response.

 

 

Regards.

 

J.D.Williams

 

 

IMPORTANT CHANGES TO YOUR CREDIT AGREEMENT

dear xxxxxxxxx

we have updated the terms of your credit agreement to reflect current market practicde and also to reflect satatutory changes introduced by the cca act 2006

 

a summary of the changes is set out below and we enclose a copy of the updated ter ms and conditions

 

NOTE THAT THESE WILL BE TAKEN INTO EFFECT FROM 1ST SEPT 2008

KEY FINANCIAL INFOMATION

 

As we keep the minimum payment required of customers under view esp for customers who have established a consistent payment record with us we have emphasised this in the text in addition we have made it clear that where you have failed to make payments

 

it does remain outstanding so that on the next payment date your mininmum payment

will also include any previous mininmum payments you have not made

 

2. KEY INFORMATION AND CONDITION 5

We reserve the right to apply admin charge where you fail to make a payment or if any credit or debit card payment is rejected or any cheque you submot and is dishonoured or direct debits is not paid we have set out this in full in condition 5

LIKEWISE IF YOU FAIL TO MAKE A PAYMENT DUE AND WE HAVE TO UNDERTAKE ACTIVITIES TO RECOVER THESE MONIES FROM YOU INCLUDINGF INSTRUCTING ANY COLLECTIONS AGENCY WE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO RECOVER THE COST OF COLLECTION FROM YOU

 

3. CONDITION 4

WE HAVE CLARIFIED THE ORDER OF ALLOCATION OF PAYMENTS YOU MAKE TO YOUR ACCOUNT TO FIT IN WITH THE CCA 2006 ACCORDINGLY PAYMENTS ARE FIRST APPLIED TO CREDIT CHARGES ON ANY ADMIN CHARGES AND THEN TO THE ADMIN CHARGES THEMSELVES BEFORE APPLYING THEM TO THE CREDIT CHARGES AND CAPPITAL ON YOUR ACCOUNT

***********************EN D************************ ***********

BUT THEY HAVE ALREADY BEEN APPLYING THEM TO MINE AS YOU CAN SEE BY THE POST I HAVE PUT IN OH AND THEY HAVE ENCLOSED A CREDIT AGREEMENT NO NO I AM NOT SIGNING IT

------------------------------- merged -------------------------------

**OC** had a statutory time limit in which to reply with the requested information; that limit expired on **DATE** at which point **OC** entered into Default under Section 78 (6)(a) of the Consumer Credit Act.

A further statutory time limit expired on **DATE** at which point **OC** failed to comply with Section 78 (1) and thus committed a criminal offence under Section 78 (6)(b) of the Act.

[abroadgirl]

j d williams account

 

heres the latest leter i got yesteday afternoon from moorcroft

 

ok after lending the letters as advised from here is what they have sent me

 

date 16th march o9

 

ref xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Dear xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I am dissapointed to note that despite our letters and attempted persoal call by our ocal representative n satisfactory agreement has been reached regarding the galances outstandingon your accounts £2201.64 & £381 61

in one last effort to come to an arrangement preventr more erious action being taken we willbeprepared to accept repayments by installments of £50 per month (what)

....a post office payment slip is attached to enable you tomake payments on reciet of this a payment we will forward futhe slips to you

Unles a payment is recived by 10 am on 23/3/09 we may recomend court proceedings to be commenced against you without futher notice.

 

Such action could incur you in futher costs and may also affect your credit rateing it is therefore in your best interests to give your immediate attention

 

alternativey you can pay using debit ard or credit card by telephoning the above number or if you prefer visit our website www.mdrl.co.uk

 

 

most of this totals are charges

hw do i upload foryou all to see the charges fees etc

hugs

abg

[abroadgirl]

please can anyone update please

tyvvm abg

[abroadgirl]

hello all, please excuse me for not ccomming in i have had health probs, now i am just getting over kidney stones but i felt i should get back here as this is now driving me mad

i do have my own thread about J D Williams/Fashion World also i am here as well in your thread ty

 

HERES MY UPDATE

 

I have done everything i have been advised on here.

I have sent all the documentations and letters with the help of everyone.inc hardship which they have had and although they agreed with the hardship they sent me to fill in they still want there money and charges bloomin heck its over two thousand i did put the statments here will put them in again look at there charges etc tyvvm abg

 

 

now yesterday i got a letter this letter from

 

buchananclark + wells

Opening Hours: Monday - Thursday 8am-8pm

Friday 8am-5pm

Saturday 9am-1 pm

Payment Online: Pay Online by Debit or Cre

Pursuers: J D WILLIAMS

Principal Sum: £xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

B€W Ref:-B1093?-4frJ--- -

We have been instructed by J D WILLIAMS to recover an overdue debt, in the sum of

£xxxxxxxxxx on their behalf.

Our clients have informed us that they are unaware of any legitimate reason for

non-payment of their account and although they would prefer an amicable settlement, will

not hesitate to commence Legal Proceedings if necessary.

Please call our 24 Hour Payment Line immediately on 0844 571 4030to make payment by

Credit or Debit Card. Payment is also accepted online at BCWGroup online payments

Should there be any matter that you would like to bring to our attention or if you wish to

discuss your financial circumstances in relation to the debt, please call us immediately.

For and on behalf of

Buchanan Clark & Wells

 

 

 

 

 

 

Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds??

 

Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims.

 

You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges.

Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges?

If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you.

Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!!

 

Follow this link to see the discussions on this.

You might even double th size of your claim.

 

[Dipply75]

Found your thread

 

Had a quick rad through and JDW are playing same games with me. I challenged them on the harrassment and they just keep dodging the questions....I am gonna HOUND them till they answer so will let you know how I get on, it may help you.

 

I am doing it all e-mail with them....want the address I've been using? Easier quicker and cheaper I found.

 

As for Buchanan Clark & Wells, as soon as they get a sniff you want a CCA they will run away

[abroadgirl]

Hi ty for comingin glad you found thead lol

yes plese i would lik tht.so do i write to b.... and ask them for the cca? smiles really they will ru away mmmmmm i will go for it

tyvm for your helpingme i have anothr thread which im going in to now rgent plz littlewood i have had a good reply from them as well lol

abg

[abroadgirl]

hi please can someone pop in and advise more (maggipsych) post tyvm

abg

[Nagasis]

Hello abroadgirl. I have read your entire thread. I cannot believe these pests are still pestering you despite admitting there is no CCA. I notice you have sent the account in dispute (post 38 ).

 

You have 2 options here. 1 is to ignore these and after awhile (like all the others) they will go away or you could send the 'bemused letter' to S.R.J.DEBT RECOVERIES which is below:

 

Send them this;

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Your Reference:

Client reference:

 

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

I must admit that I am rather bemused as to why this account has been passed to you, as it is in dispute with JD Williams and has been since ***Date***

Not only is this a breach of OFT collection guidelines, but also in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Data Protection Act 1998

 

 

As JD Williams is now in default of my Consumer Credit Act request, Office of Fair Trading Collection Guidelines and s10 Data Protection Act request, I consider this account to be in SERIOUS DISPUTE.

 

As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default, enforcement action is NOT permitted; under s127 this constitutes a complete defence at law. Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Now I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to JD Williams for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as JD Williams cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities.

 

If JD Williams chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

 

I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

Yours faithfully

[maggipsych]

hello

These pesky people. I am sure they make it up as they go along! Someone will reply at some point, talking complete rubbish! Usually to reiterate the stuff they have already been told then asking you questions i.e. fishing.

The "S.Beat" is, allegedly, a Solicitor in the employ of Reliable Collections, however I cannot find a Solicitor registered to practice in that name (although I could be mistaken!). Reliable Collections, as you are well aware are part of the JDWilliams empire, which I then believe are owned by a group - N.Brown.

It is more the sheer ignorance of the Company that makes me argue back. They are offensive, rude, ignorant of the law regarding harassment, & not overly bright on the Consumer Credit front either. I have NEVER signed anything when I have made contact with them. I have NEVER seen a CCA on fax paper before either - most odd.

So, I have just twittered on here, but I believe that the letter templates arguing back are excellent, and reiterate that while in dispute not a lot can happen. I really, really do wish you well, and wish you success.

[pookeymonkey]

Here is the elusive S.Beat

 

The Law Society - Find a solicitor

 

I might quote back some of their bulls**t from their Social Responsibility section of their website (click on Overview to get to it) when I write to them next!

 

NBrown Corporate website

 

Pookey

[Nagasis]

Yes as confirmed already, Stephanie Beat is a real person (person might be an overstatement)

[Dipply75]

Hi abroadgirl

 

I am so sorry I've not got back to you, I have so much on just now (court with 2 fights) I don't get on much lately.

 

I will dig that e-mail address out for you tonight, use it to put a formal complaint into JD Williams/Reliable that they are passing the account on willy nilly after admiting no CCA and while in dispute etc...

 

It is there standard threatogram, I'll bet it is even on a poorly printed bit of paper? lol, sooo professional.

 

Will be making an effort to get back on CAG regularly now...so many folk helped me on here and I need to be doing my bit

 

(and happy new year to you too )

[abroadgirl]

hi dipply and everyone

good luck dipply in court and it is nice seeing you i know we cannot always get in when we want or need too no worries.

 

thankyou all for your help, advise, and letter drafts

tysm

will let you all know when i get a reply

hugs

abg

[abroadgirl]

thought i would post this incase anyone wants it

lol

 

N Brown Group plc

Alan White, Chief Executive Tel: 0161 238 2202

Dean Moore, Finance Director Tel: 0161 238 2208

Website: NBrown Corporate website

Kreab Gavin Anderson

Fergus Wylie/Clotilde Gros Tel: 0207 074 1800

 

jd williams (fashion World)

[abroadgirl]

well with all the messing about and with different dca companies hers is what i have got

 

Hi teaboy

well would you believe this i will type what i have got from JD williams

 

Dear xxxxxxxxx

 

Thankyou for your letter which we recieved on 4th march 2010, the contents of which we note (which one are they on about unless S>J>R sent them what i sent to them and they have sent a copy to them?)

 

a request to pursue this account had been allocated in error and for this we apolgise.

 

We have advised the credit account managerment company that no futher action is required on this account

 

Once again we apolygise for any upset we have caused.

 

yours xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

what do you think of that?