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Sosumi vs Cabot!!!


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Received a letter from Cabot this morning.

Not only do I not have an 'account' with Cabot, I was in touch with Goldfish in January, cleared the arrears on the account and agreed a monthly payment with them. I have received no notice of assignment - nothing. I've been making the payments as arranged with Goldfish.

CabotGoldfish0001edit.jpg

  • Haha 1

We will not be intimidated.

'The pen is mightier than the sword'.

Petition to Outlaw Debt Sale and Purchase

- can't read/post much as eye strain's v.bad.

VIVA CAG!!! :)

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Copied from my post in BB's thread:

They've made a serious mistake in writing it. And I mean serious!:-x

I'm writing the reply to them now. But they've just committed a prohibited unfair commercial practice. Guess what it is? Amongst other things, they've threatened to record a default on my Credit Reference Files!

It's a threat! It's also a lie - and if Goldfish have sold this alleged debt to them, Goldfish are equally responsible, and guilty of a very serious breach of trust!

Prohibition of Unfair Commercial Practices

3 © It is aggressive under the provisions of regulation 7

7 (1) a) It significantly impairs or is likely significantly to impair the average consumer's freedom of choice or conduct in relation to the product concerned through the use of harassment, coercion or undue influence; and

b) It thereby causes or is likely to cause him to take a transactional decision he would not have taken otherwise

(3) In this regulation -

b) "undue influence" means exploiting a position of power in relation to the consumer so as to apply pressure, even without using or threatening to use physical force, in a way which significantly limits the consumer's ability to make an informed decision."

Threat of placing default on my Credit Reference Files, without any apparent authority to do so - exploiting a position of power!

I'm going to pursue them for this. CRAs = tools to threaten with.:-x

BB's thread is CCA, DCAs and the Unfair Commercial Practices Directive

In the first instance I'm going to write asking for a copy of my CCA and proof of assignment. I'm going to ask for a copy of their Complaints Procedure by return of post.

Then I'm going to SAR Goldfish and ask them for a copy of their Complaints Procedure as well.

Edited by sosumi

We will not be intimidated.

'The pen is mightier than the sword'.

Petition to Outlaw Debt Sale and Purchase

- can't read/post much as eye strain's v.bad.

VIVA CAG!!! :)

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I wish you joy of trying to get anything resembling either a straight or sensible response from Cabot.

 

What's the betting they will pretend that the new legislation doesn't apply to them, that they haven't been arsed to change their reply templates, and that the first letter you receive will mention the 'rights but not duties' guff?

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Well I'm giving it a go, SP :)

Sosumi Palace (!)

16th June 2008

***** *******

Customer Services Manager

Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited

PO Box No. 241

West Malling

Kent

ME19 4NA

Cabot Reference: 1234567

Dear ***** *******,

I have today received a letter from you which has caused great offence.

You intimate that an account (Goldfish A/C: 0000000000000000) - for which I have received no proof of assignment to you from Goldfish Bank Ltd - is in 'arrears' with yourselves. You proceed to threaten me with placing a Default on my Credit File.

I do not tolerate threats, and I will not tolerate attempts at defamation.

Be assured that I intend to pursue this matter thoroughly, to discover when and how you came by this account - and for what reason. The account that I have with Goldfish Bank is being paid monthly according to the arrangement with Goldfish Bank. This arrangement was made in January 2008 and I have been making payments each month since that time, having cleared what were then arrears on the account. I was assured that this was in order. I therefore have grave misgivings about your sudden 'involvement' and require proof of such. If Goldfish have reneged on this arrangement, then where have my payments been going?

This is a very serious breach of trust with Goldfish.

I require, from you, Proof of Assignment of the account.

I also require a Copy of my Credit Agreement, for which I have enclosed a formal letter of request and the Statutory one pound Postal Order.

I also require, by return of post, a Copy of your Complaints Procedure.

Do not underestimate the seriousness with which I take the threats in your letter. I will be pursuing this matter with all the Authorities. I shall be writing to Goldfish for an explanation and a copy of their Complaints Procedure as well, and will include your letter in my correspondence with them.

YOU HAVE NO AUTHORITY TO ACCESS MY CREDIT FILES.

I will be pursuing you in relation to The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 in the first instance, at the very least. I therefore suggest that you attend to this matter with due urgency. You have called the reputation of your company (Cabot) and Goldfish Bank into question, and I will not let this matter rest.

I now intend to vigorously investigate the source and substance of your letter.

I deem this matter serious enough to warrant reporting to various Statutory and Regulatory Bodies, as well as any other Agencies I deem necessary.

You have written:

"If you don't contact us within the next 14 days we will issue a default notice. If you do not satisfy the default notice, your account will be registered with the credit reference agencies as a default. This will make it harder for you to obtain credit in the future."

This is a prohibited commercial practice under The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.

I suggest you read and take note of the following:

PART 2 PROHIBITIONS

Prohibition of unfair commercial practices

 

3. --(1) Unfair commercial practices are prohibited.

(3) A commercial practice is unfair if-

(b) it materially distorts or is likely to materially distort the economic behaviour of the average consumer with regard to the product.

(4) A commercial practice is unfair if-

©it is aggressive under the provisions of regulation 7

and:

"Aggressive commercial practices

 

7.-(1) A commercial practice is aggressive if, in its factual context, taking account of all of its features and circumstances-

(a) it significantly impairs or is likely significantly to impair the average consumer's freedom of choice or conduct in relation to the product concerned through the use of harassment, coercion or undue influence; and

(b) it thereby causes or is likely to cause him to take a transactional decision he would not have taken otherwise.

(2) In determining whether a commercial practice uses harassment, coercion or undue influence account shall be taken of-

© the exploitation by the trader of any specific misfortune or circumstance of such gravity as to impair the consumer's judgment, of which the trader is aware, to influence the consumer's decision with regard to the product;

(3) In this regulation-

(b) “undue influence” means exploiting a position of power in relation to the consumer so as to apply pressure, even without using or threatening to use physical force, in a way which significantly limits the consumer's ability to make an informed decision."

I suggest, therefore, that you contact Goldfish urgently to discuss this matter further. If I do not hear from you I will assume that you are neglecting to address this issue, and will contact various Departments within the Ministry of Justice - and any other organisations that I deem appropriate.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully,

 

We will not be intimidated.

'The pen is mightier than the sword'.

Petition to Outlaw Debt Sale and Purchase

- can't read/post much as eye strain's v.bad.

VIVA CAG!!! :)

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Go for it. The more complaints the more likely it is that the OFT/TS will actually take some sort of action

If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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I've photocopied their letter as part of my reply, and also enclosed a CCA Request with postal order.

Goldfish have broken our agreement behind my back, then these %&*#@!s threaten me with a Default on my CRFs for something I haven't done!!

Oooh me blood's boiling! :-x

We will not be intimidated.

'The pen is mightier than the sword'.

Petition to Outlaw Debt Sale and Purchase

- can't read/post much as eye strain's v.bad.

VIVA CAG!!! :)

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Share on other sites

I wish you joy of trying to get anything resembling either a straight or sensible response from Cabot.

 

What's the betting they will pretend that the new legislation doesn't apply to them, that they haven't been arsed to change their reply templates, and that the first letter you receive will mention the 'rights but not duties' guff?

 

Strangely enough Scarlet I saw in this page that someone has suggested that Cabot do change their templates. Unfair Commercial Practices Directive : Cabot Financial Blog

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Am copying this over from BB's thread as I don't want to hijack it:

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by foolishgirl viewpost.gif

Not sure I follow your post, Sosumi. If you've cleared your arrears with Goldfish why have you made a payment arrangement? And if you do have a payment arrangement, aren't GF still free to sell on/collect your debt if they so wish, the payment option being discretionary & not binding? Can you clarify please?

Take your point re. NOA though - def. out of order.

Would love to see Cabot (& the others) squirm under new regs. Hope you've got a case...

 

Sorry FG, it was that kind of day :wink:

I had a credit card with Morgan Stanley for £1000. When we entered our DMP with Payplan this was obviously included and Morgan Stanley accepted the revised payments without hostility. We both felt very strongly that, as MS had been fair to us, we would treat this as a priority when we started to get back on our feet. In January we were able to pay £200 into the account - and this is where I feel very stupid... All I can say is that I was a bit high at the time, didn't know exactly how much the arrears were, so took a guess. I thought they'd get back to me if that hadn't cleared the arrears. I wanted them to understand that we both took our obligations seriously. I broke every bit of CAG advice, and sure enough... they got back in touch. Not with a "Thankyou for this payment, hopefully we can sort this out now." No, instead it was a letter from Goldfish threatening to Default me unless I paid the arrears - just over £80.

Still feeling okay about approaching them, and sure it could be managed by talking to them, I phoned. I wanted to pay the arrears that they said were outstanding, explain our intentions and hopefully re-establish some kind of mutual respect.

So I phoned, and was passed to a young man in 'Special Operations' at Goldfish - why special operations I don't know. He asked me why I'd paid £200, I said I'd taken a guess, he asked me if I wanted to pay the arrears, I said that was why I'd phoned. I made the payment. I asked if, now that the arrears had been cleared, we would be able to make minimum payments - as per the original terms, (we weren't asking for credit, just a litle decency and regulat statements) he said no not possible, your account is closed. He said however that they would continue accepting payments as long as they were over £5 a month. Okay I said, we pay £5.86 a month anyway. I said could you put this in a letter? He said yes, and would include a payment book. The payment book arrived, the letter didn't, but we were paying £5.86 a month by Standing Order anyway, so I thought everything was okay.

Then yesterday I received that letter from Cabot.

I'll never win any prizes for being suspicious enough not to trust people sometimes - and I'd probably wear a CAG Numpty hat if there was one :oops:

But that's what happened. Without any letters to the contrary, I assumed everything was going okay - until yesterday.

As the £200 payment seemed to 'wake them' - and now, completely unnecessarily, they appear to have sold this account to Cabot, who seem to feel it is reasonable to introduce themselves with a threat of default!

It was absolutely unnecessary to do this.

I'll not be treated like an object to be bargained with at a car boot sale, nor will I have companies claiming arrears I don't have, and threats of default when I've never even met them!

Sorry for long post here BB :-)

We will not be intimidated.

'The pen is mightier than the sword'.

Petition to Outlaw Debt Sale and Purchase

- can't read/post much as eye strain's v.bad.

VIVA CAG!!! :)

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You've obviously read my comments in BB's thread. Like your style re. corresp. above!

As a matter of interest, I received a (good) offer from Goldfish to settle my account at the beg. of 2008, unfortunately no cash but yep, the initiative came from them! Is is possible that they are scurrying around for the pennies to put into their piggy bank before people start applying the provisions of the Unfair Com. Practices Regs? Could this explain the handover of your account to Cabot? Or is the Goldfish flailing around trying not to land belly up on top of the water?

Any knowledge I possess or advice I proffer is based solely on my experiences in the University of Life. Please make your own assessment of legality, risks & costs before taking any action.

 

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I might be totally wrong here Sosumi but this is what I gather their problem is. From what you say, they didn't even send a default notice? I mean, before they can default you, they have to write to tell you what they expect you to do to remedy the situation. They can't just default you without doing that.

Is it worth writing to Cabot to tell them you want to carry on with the same arrangement as yu had before? Perhaps they will just be happy to be getting anything at all?

I do see that Goldfish seem to be selling on a lot of accounts. Even ones that are not in debt. Well, not in trouble. You know what I mean.

 

Thanks for filling in the details Sosumi - now I understand. Guess you've now learnt the hard way never to disturb a sleeping lion?

I am assuming that you've seen that MS did actually have an enforceable agreement before entering Payment Plan? Now, just a suggestion but have you S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)'d Goldfish recently to get up to date statements (as all you have is a payment book) & also demand copies of default notice (as per PF's post) & NOA. You might be able to cut a deal with Cabot/Goldfish based on '£200 is all I have in the world guv & I can afford nothing more than the monthly payments' line or if you think the £80.00 the total balance, can you afford to pay this off? At least it would get rid them even if it doesn''t seem fair but then who said life is ever fair? However I would ensure you get written confirmation that this is definitely a F&F deal before paying anything over.

I see what you're saying. I think I need to go for a walk with hubby, try and clear the crossness away :)

Cabot could so easily have done this another way. Just write and introduce themselves, just say "Hello we're Cabot and we've taken over your account" - something like that? When will they understand that people are trying to work things out - and will, given half a chance?

We will not be intimidated.

'The pen is mightier than the sword'.

Petition to Outlaw Debt Sale and Purchase

- can't read/post much as eye strain's v.bad.

VIVA CAG!!! :)

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Come on, are we talking fairy stories here?!! Say hello nicely? You definitely need that walk - in the real world....:)

Any knowledge I possess or advice I proffer is based solely on my experiences in the University of Life. Please make your own assessment of legality, risks & costs before taking any action.

 

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You've obviously read my comments in BB's thread. Like your style re. corresp. above!

As a matter of interest, I received a (good) offer from Goldfish to settle my account at the beg. of 2008, unfortunately no cash but yep, the initiative came from them! Is is possible that they are scurrying around for the pennies to put into their piggy bank before people start applying the provisions of the Unfair Com. Practices Regs? Could this explain the handover of your account to Cabot? Or is the Goldfish flailing around trying not to land belly up on top of the water?

I wish Goldfish had shown the same initiative with me FG :D

All this stuff is really taking its toll with me now. I'm sure we're getting there, but it's wearing me down. :|

We will not be intimidated.

'The pen is mightier than the sword'.

Petition to Outlaw Debt Sale and Purchase

- can't read/post much as eye strain's v.bad.

VIVA CAG!!! :)

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Come on, are we talking fairy stories here?!! Say hello nicely? You definitely need that walk - in the real world....:)

:D Yes I do, don't I? Thanks for making me lol! :D

We will not be intimidated.

'The pen is mightier than the sword'.

Petition to Outlaw Debt Sale and Purchase

- can't read/post much as eye strain's v.bad.

VIVA CAG!!! :)

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That's why I think you may have a chance to make a deal once & for all if you play the cards right. Reading between the lines, IMO Goldfish seem to have probs/are up to something - maybe a takeover. Make it work to your advantage.

Go for your walk & then think it through rationally to get what's right for you, never mind what's right or fair in principle, it's your life...

Any knowledge I possess or advice I proffer is based solely on my experiences in the University of Life. Please make your own assessment of legality, risks & costs before taking any action.

 

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where's the legislation for the UK's implementation of the Unfair Commercial Practises Directive (EC) as the Unfair Trading Regulations? I've seen the OFT's guidance etc. but where's the actual law to quote to DCAs?

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this regulation is not retrospective is it (here's me hoping) as my DCA's have been quiet since March but a lot of noise before that.

 

Time limit for prosecution

 

14.—(1) No proceedings for an offence under these Regulations shall be commenced after—

(a) the end of the period of three years beginning with the date of the commission of the offence, or

(b) the end of the period of one year beginning with the date of discovery of the offence by the prosecutor,

whichever is earlier.

Edited by tifo
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Time limits for what Tifo? For them to take action against you? I'm not sure I understand wha you are getting at in that last post.

 

The regulations came into effect in April 2008, can these be used for actions the DCA/bank did before this date, i.e. retrospectively, or only after this date and can be bought within 1/3 years.

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i'm talking about me, taking action against the creditor under the Unfair Relationship legislation, under s.140A and s.140B of the CCA 1974. This was added in the CCA 2006 and is retrospective from April 2008, so now applies to the agreement. All actions that DCAs take fall foul of this legislation and the court can order all payments to be refunded to the debtor, or vary any term of the agreement, or void it entirely.

 

then i' asking about the Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 and if they are retrospective or not, if they are not, then they only apply to actions done after April 2008 by a creditor.

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I understood the Unfair Trading Regs. were not retrospective & only applied to actions taken after April 2008 but I'd love to be corrected!

Any legal eagles out there?

Any knowledge I possess or advice I proffer is based solely on my experiences in the University of Life. Please make your own assessment of legality, risks & costs before taking any action.

 

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yes, i think you're right, but the Unfair Relationship is definately retrospective so that can be used. It applies to pre-April 2006 contracts from this year.

 

i've started to use it against my DCAs already (sent first letters out today, only to rattle them a bit).

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