Advantis Credit Help please!

[adamfernadam]

Hi there, i REALLY hope someone can help me! REALLY sorry for for the long post.

 

I moved back to the UK from Isle of man 6 years ago and when arriving in England i was not on the electoral role. i went to work for a local independant phone communications company based in my town in 2005 and while there was given a personal mobile to use. This was through Yes telecom at a special rate through the company i worked for. That company acted as a guarantee because of me not being on the electoral role i couldnt get a normal contract. At the time i hadnt heard of Yes Telecom and assumed it was part of the company i worked for as it was the only provider used. However in June 2005 i left the company and the phone was given back and agreed for the contract to be ended. The company even sent a letter to say it was, and asked for the mobile back which i took in.i asumed this was the end of it. The company proceded to go into liquidation.

 

In about July 2005 i was sent a bill for approx £200 from Yes telecom. I rang them explaining the contract had been cancelled and that was the end of it. In Sept 2005 i moved to a new house in a different street. Now after 3 years i recieved a letter about 6 months ago from Advantis Credit TO MY NEW ADDRESS asking for that mystery £200 to be paid. I made the mistake of phoning them after i panicked and said it was nothing to do with me. They asked for the address which i didnt give them however they got my d.o.b out of me.They said theyd look into it. I HAVE NO IDEA HOW THEY GOT MY NEW ADDRESS AS I HADNT HEARD FROM THEM OR YES TECOM IN 3 YEARS. Since then i have had 2 more letters WITH MY D.O.B ON (which they didnt have before). i again mistakenly rang them while annoyed to say thewy didnt have my d.o.b til i told them and to not contact me again. Each letter since then has increase amounts..amount now is £1095.10!!!.

 

Today i recieved the letter which other people have had on this forum from "CROWN LITIGATION SERVICES" which is actually just Advantis Credit if you read the small print. I think this is bad in some way as it misguides you into thinking its from a court? Am i correct?

Anyway now im given 10 days form letter date to pay or threatened with a judgement and to pay costs etc unless i call them (which il not do again). As far as i knew the contract ended in 2005 when the mobile was given back and a letter got saying it was cancelled and to return the phone.(i dont still have the letter unfortunatly) It obviously never did get cancelled properly somehow.Am also sure i never signed any agreement at that company. I think i may have left it too long before doing anything and am panicking lots.

 

PLEASE tell me what i should do now? Thanks so much,

 

Fern x

[I've got no money]

Interesting there used to be a company called Credit Default Register, back in the early 90's (shows you how long I've been involved with debt collectors) with an address that led you to believe that that they were part of the High Court - The OFT revoked, after lots of complaints their consumer credit licence.

 

The first thing to do is a CCA request to Advantis Credit aka Crown litigation, also do a DPA request - you want copies of the agreement etc

The second thing is to contact Trading Standards, both where you live and where Advantis/Crown Litigation are based and complain that they are misleading you into thinking that they in some way represent the court. You should also complain to the OFT that they are not fit and proper persons to hold a CCA licence refer to the Crown Litigation stunt.

 

Don't have any telephone contact with them - keep in writing - don't hand sign any letters to them.

 

When they reply let us know

[adamfernadam]

Hi thanks for the quick response!

 

I will go ahead and complain to the relevant people about that issue. The letter has CROWN LITIGATION SERVICES in huge red writing across the top of the letter.

On the advantis side i will send letters, my only concern is that iv left it that long now and they are saying 10 days from date on the letter which only leaves 7 days now. I should have sent letters ages ago but didnt have a clue what to do. Is this timescale going to be ok for letters to be sent? Anything else i can or should be doing? Which templates should i use? It has really stressed me out at a time i really dont need it!!

 

Thanks to anyone who will help me,

Fern x

[I've got no money]

You haven't left it too long - DCA's always give time limits like that - if you don't reply you usually then get another letter, a letter from a different DCA or a Soicitors' letter

[I've got no money]

Sorry for my crap typing...

[adamfernadam]

No problem thats fine thanks! okay, any ideas what i should send then? i.e which templates? Also what should i do with regards to the complaint to trading standards, ombudsman etc? What do i need to specify?

 

also will it matter that i dont have all the old confirmations of the contract cancelled?

 

Im sorry for all the questions on a saturday night!

Thanks for all help, Fern x

[I've got no money]

Have a look in the templates section. The complaint to the OFT and Trading Standards is fairly straightforward that the Advantis/crown are acting in breach of OFT guidance in that they are misrepresenting themselves as being connected with the Crown and Courts and as such are not fit and proper to hold CCA licences.

[I've got no money]

Its up to them to prove that there is an agreement between you and them

[foolishgirl]

Are Advantis on fishing trips? I had a letter approx. 2 months ago from them stating I owed a debt of which I have no knowledge. I wrote back the 'I do not acknowledge this debt' letter & asked them to prove it by way of CCA. Heard nothing since.

[I've got no money]

I don't know if fishing is the right phrase - perhaps they know that they don't have the CCA information and are just trying it on in the hope that people will pay up without question...

[foolishgirl]

I know a debt doesn't exist, never mind a CCA! I think they're trying it on to see who'll pay just THINKING they might owe a debt to someone. If you could prove it, it would be a criminal case for fraud & deception.

[adamfernadam]

Hi again i have an update!

 

After your good advice i sent the letter asking to sho the contract etcetc and also reported them to both my local and thier local Trading Standards. They had already had complaints about Advantis and i was asked to send copies of letters to Trading Standards. After that heard nothing else...

 

Yesterday i recieved a letter from Advantis that reads...

We are writing to advise you that we have recieved a response from Yes Telecom with regards to the query that you raised with Advantis Credit relating to the above debt.

Unfortunatly we have been unable to contact you by telephone and therefore ask you to contacts us on the Advantis Priority Telephnone Line so that we can bring this matter to a conclusion.

Please quote your refrence in all communications.

 

the debt amount shown is £1 less than on the last letters i think and there has never been any attempted phone calls from them i know for a fact.

 

I know not to call them..please tell me what my next move should be? i thought id heard the last from them. thanks in advance.

 

Fern x

[adamfernadam]

anybody please?

F x

[42man]

If it was me in your shoes I would send this to the original creditor.....unfortunately this will cost £10, but you can see why it is used from what is written in it....it may even be the case where the excessive penalty charges mean that they actually owe you more than you owe them.....it might even be worth sending this to crown litigation services.....be proactive and fight this....if you show you are a soft target, they might just decide to throw a county court claim your way in the hope, you won't defend it....

 

Data Protection Act 1998

 

Subject Access Request

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx (or multiple numbers if more than one account)

 

Please supply me with all data that you hold on me. This includes in particular, but is not limited to, the following:-

 

1. The original signed, executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

3. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with ORIGINAL CREDITOR.

4. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

5. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

6. Details of any collection charges added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

7. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

8. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

9. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

10. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

print but don't sign your name

 

They have to supply the details in 40 days.....if they don't then it's a letter before action, and if they haven't replied in a further 14 days then you can take them to court....

 

At least by doing this you will know exactly where you stand...

[Patma]

I'd hang on for now, Fern, and send copies of their latest letter to TS.You're absolutely right not to speak to them on the phone.

How long is it since you sent your CCA request?

When they've had 12+2 days, you can send them the account in dispute letter and they should theoretically cease collection activity.

For now keep all the correspondence, and don't worry about the type of letter you just got. It's a standard way to try and tempt you into phoning them.

[Patma]

42 Man beat me to it, and his advice is far better than anything I could suggest. It sounds like a good plan to me.

[adamfernadam]

Hi guys thanks for your answers, it was back in June when i sent off the last letter and spoke to TS etc...

So its like 4 months since i heard anything until this latest letter!

Thanks 42man shall i send that letter you kindly put up for me? Patma do i sned an account in dispute? Anyone?

This is realy starting to get to me is not my problem and i thought it had gone away! thanks for your continued help. Fern

[ScabHunter]

Don't let it get to you.

 

Firstly, analyze what that last ridiculous letter actually means. They say "Unfortunately we have been unable to contact you by telephone." Why? What the hell is "unfortunate" about that?

 

If you've got a case against someone you issue court papers. You don't bugger about with telephones.

 

Then they want you to telephone them. Why? What is it that they want to say to you that they are not prepared to put in writing? Something that they would not want to go before a judge, no doubt.

 

The fact that they are playing stupid games like this after their original threats almost certainly means they are urinating in the breeze.

 

Here is the letter I would send them -

 

 

Dear Mental Defectives,

 

You have contacted me/us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.

 

I/we would point out that I/we have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to (insert company name).

 

I am/we are familiar with the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

 

As I have no knowledge of this alleged debt, I demand that you prove your entitlement to enforce it. No further correspondence will be entered into unless you can prove that this alleged debt exists, and that I am indeed the debtor.

 

As your letter of xx/xx/xxxx already puts you in breach of the Office Of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance a complaint has duly been filed. Any further breaches will be added to this complaint.

 

Should you fail to comply with my demand for proof, the matter will be brought to the attention of my own local Trading Standards department, as well as the one in your local area.

 

As you have demanded money with no proof of entitlement, you can regard this letter as the initiation of a formal complaint. I therefore request a copy of your official complaints procedure which you are legally obliged to supply. Should you fail to satisfy this complaint, it will be escalated to the Financial Ombudsman Service.

 

Should you be unable to provide proof that this alleged debt is genuine, then you are in breach of the Data Protection Act 1998 and must cease processing my data immediately. Failure to comply with this will result in a complaint to the Information Commissioner and may result in court action.

 

Also, note that while the account relating to the reference number above remains in strong dispute, you are not allowed to pass it on to any third party. Should you do so, further complaints will be made to the relevant authorities outlined above.

 

I look forward to your reply that this matter is now closed and that you have totally removed my data from your system.

 

Yours Faithfully,

 

xxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

 

That would be my final response unless they were able to prove the alleged debt, or unless they issued court papers.

 

Any further threatagrams would be forwarded to the relevant authorities.

 

SH

[adamfernadam]

Hello all...i would like to say thanks to everybody who has helped so far and i have an update...sorry for the long post everybody

 

I sent the letter kindly wrote out by ScabHunter above and sent by registered post last weekend (Saturday). Today (Thursday) i recieved a letter from Advantis. This letter is back to the CROWN LITIGATION SERVICES which was previously mentioned in the thred and had been reported to Trading Standards. The letter reads as follows...

 

CROWN LITIGATION SERVICES

 

Client: Yes Telecom

Refrence : Legal ******

 

Dear .......

 

We have now been instructed by Advantis Credit to issue proceedings, without further recourse to yourself, unless they recieve payment of the outstanding balance within 10 days of the date of this letter.

 

Oustanding Balance £1094.10

Interest £92.16

Court Fees £120.00

Solicitor Costs £90.00

New Balance £1396.26

 

Should the issue of proceedings prove necessary we wold draw to your attention to the additional charges above that will be added to your existing debt.

 

If you dispute liability for this debt please state your reasons in writing and supply documents in support of your defence to any claim. If you fail to notify us of any potential dispute prior to the issue of proceedings and you subsequently file a defence we reserve the right to show this letter to the court.

 

To prevent any further action please telephone via Advantis Credit on 0845 40 224 30 within the next 10 days with your payment proposals.

 

Yours sincerely Crown litigation services.

 

For starters this crown litigatin is stupid as is call VIA...its all Advantis Credit as says in the small print and we have been here before. They have not mentioned in ANY reply my repeated request for copy of the original agreement etc or other documents and just continue to threaten. Also this letter gives intrest..fees etc etc but no statement of how this is all worked out. Also the outstanding balance is still £1 less than what they originally asked for. The whole letter is decieving and is no way a reply to my last letter i sent.

 

Can someone please please advise me what i should do next as this is driving me crazy..thankyou for your continued help in advance.

 

Fern

[adamfernadam]

Anyone please?? In need of guidance really bad, thanks!

[maroondevo52]

Hi, Fern,

 

There is a letter you could send..........

 

 

 

Account In Dispute

 

Ref:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account. I would now request you send me your official complaints procedure within 14 days.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore

 

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

 

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[UK26]

subs

[adamfernadam]

Hi, thankyou so much for you helping me and taking the time to write out that letter for me it is realy appreciated!! Im sorry for another long post but im so stressed with this i really appreciate your help so much.

 

Today i have just recieved another letter from Advantis saying it is wrote in response to my query i raised regarding the Yes Telecom account and that a itemised invoice is included, and then asking to call them again which i wont do. No timescale is given this time although the previous letter with the costs etc on stated 10 days..which is 4 days from today.

 

Okay so the documens they have sent is a black and white photocopy of a Yes telecom Customer Agreement. Section 1 has a cross i it sayiing im a Private Individual. Section 2 is my personal details and here is where it MUST be unlawful.. My name is there but no middle initial (which i always use), my date of birth is there (which advantis did not know until that very 1st conversation) the address is my partners old address which i never actually lived at. The telephone number IS MY CURRENT HOUSE LANDLINE. (they didnt have this until i rang them off it that 1st time). My partner didnt have a landline at his old house. the email address is one im sure i never had.

Section 3 is operative provisions with 4 terms and conditions and a space for Authorised signatures, ful name and date. NONE OF THESE ARE FILLED IN. Nowhere on the form is my signature or any signature or dates or anything.

Section 4 is for direct debit details and there is nothing in that box.

 

The next page is another photocopy this time a connection schedule. My name and the tariff etc are filled in and 18months in the contac length box. Boxes for invoice address, Yes telecom signatures, and customer decleration are all empty!! No signatures or dates anywhere again.

 

Next page is a photocopy of some terms and conditions with no dates signatures etc again.

 

Im really stuck and panicking what to do now...the times ticking but this must be illegal to me its serious..im sure they have just got blank copies and filled the details in..some of them made up or wrong as iv said above. And no signatures or dates anywhere.

 

My idea is to go back to Trading Standads tomorrow but what else do i do with Advantis..its really getting to me..anyone so kind as to help again? thankyou in advance.

 

Fern x

[UK26]

can you post a copy of the agreement on here?

[adamfernadam]

im sorry im not sure how to i dont have a scanner im sorry

 

Im going to contact trading standards again to reopen the case i 1st opened with them in the morning, but then i would love to know what to do next wih Advantis.

 

If anyone needs to see the so-called credit agreement i could take a photo and put it up if its possible to do so, would need to know how to do it safely as it has phone number etc on there. Hope someone can advise me again quickly and stop me panicking.

 

Thanks for continued help, Fern x

Edited November 24, 2008 by adamfernadam