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Help wanted on a train penalty fair notice please!


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I wondered if anyone could give me any advice on whether there is anything I can do about a problem I have please.

 

I have just received a letter addressed to my 15 year old daughter, care of parent/guardian from the Independent Penalty Fares Appeal Service. It appears that my daughter was issues a penalty fare notice on 9 May on her way to school because she did not have her photocard with her to accompany her monthly train season ticket. She obviously appealed against the £20 fine she was given, but her letter was not received until 2 June. The 21 day deadline expired on Friday, 30 June, and her letter was apparently received on the next working day. Her appeal was not considered because it was received too late. The first I knew of this was when the letter in response to her appeal, dated 10 June, arrived today.

 

I have spoken to the IPFAS on the telephone, and we went round in circles. Whilst I fully accept that my daughter was at fault for not having her photocard in the wallet with her season ticket, and that she was at fault for not telling me that she had been issued with a penalty charge notice, I am surprised that an official organisation such as IPFAS can communicate with a child and impose fines without notifying their parents. My daughter clearly thought that she would be able to sort this out through an appeal, but, as a child in the middle of exams, she obviously missed the deadline by the narrowest of margins. Had I, as the legal guardian of the child concerned, been made aware of the situation, I could have made certain that the appeal was received by IPFAS in time, and presumably the appeal woudl have been considered. I asked both people I spoke to at IPFAS whether they had a duty to inform the parents of children who were issued with fines, and their response was that they were doing so now - AFTER the appeal deadline has expired. both people were typical jobsworths, and were totally unhelpfu.

 

There must be many children who would be worried about telling their parents that they had been given a fine, and surely there is some onus on the company issuing the fine to inform parents at the time of issue rather than when they no longer have the righ to appeal? :-x:-x:-x

 

Any advice would be gratefully received!

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Sounds a bit ridiculous, but if they're allowed to penalty fare a 15 year old then I suppose there's nothing you can argue really.

 

What I would say is that, if this did happen again in the future its probably best to pay the penalty fare first, and then appeal so you get a refund at a later date.

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Thanks for your reply. My issue isn't really that they issued a penalty fare, because my daughter should have had her photocard with her. My concern is that, as her legal guardian, I have no right to appeal against the notice. apparently South Eastern Trains can waive up to two penalty notices in a year for people who have forgotten to carry their season ticket/photocard, so the appeal would probably have been successful. I don't think it is acceptable to rely on a child telling their parent that they have received a fine, and not notifying the parent. If I had known that she had received the notice, then I would have appealed. When I received the letter today, and found out about the notice for the first time, I assumed that I could appeal. But apparently I cannot do so.

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...my daughter was issues a penalty fare notice on 9 May...She obviously appealed against the £20 fine she was given, but her letter was not received until 2 June. The 21 day deadline expired on Friday, 30 June, and her letter was apparently received on the next working day. Her appeal was not considered because it was received too late. The first I knew of this was when the letter in response to her appeal, dated 10 June, arrived today.
Methinks U MAY have made a typo re: Deadline Date??...:confused:

 

 

 

 

Whilst I fully accept that my daughter was at fault for not having her photocard in the wallet with her season ticket, and that she was at fault for not telling me that she had been issued with a penalty charge notice, I am surprised that an official organisation such as IPFAS can communicate with a child and impose fines without notifying their parents. My daughter clearly thought that she would be able to sort this out through an appeal, but, as a child in the middle of exams, she obviously missed the deadline by the narrowest of margins. Had I, as the legal guardian of the child concerned, been made aware of the situation, I could have made certain that the appeal was received by IPFAS in time, and presumably the appeal woudl have been considered...

I fail to understand on what grounds U think that U MAY have been able to appeal on??...:confused:

 

U have admitted that your daughter had invalidated her season ticket.

Whatever other things have or have NOT transpired don't change this fact.

It is for this reason that a PCN has been issued + for this reason alone.

 

Even though the initial letter was addressed to your daughter, it ALSO stated "Care of Parent/Guardian".

Your daughter is 15 NOT 5

 

She obviously feels old enough to 'forget' to have her photo I.D. on her when travelling using her season ticket, wishes to NOT mention the letter to U, conduct her OWN appeal + then 'forget' WHEN the deadline for that said appeal is.

 

Perhaps it MAY help to jog her memory in the future, when she remembers how old she felt when U stopped £20 out of any pocket money that U may give to her, to pay the £20 Penalty Charge instead...;)

 

 

 

 

I asked both people I spoke to at IPFAS whether they had a duty to inform the parents of children who were issued with fines, and their response was that they were doing so now - AFTER the appeal deadline has expired. both people were typical jobsworths, and were totally unhelpfu.

By saying that they were totally unhelpful...Do U mean that they didn't do what U wanted??...:confused:

...That being, to waiver the £20 PCN...:rolleyes:

 

Your daughter is ultimately the one at fault, NOT the PCN system.

'Tough Love' will only benefit her in the long term.

 

 

 

...:)

The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

Blessed is he who in the name of charity and goodwill shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers.

And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

(Jules Winnfield)

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Methinks U MAY have made a typo re: Deadline Date??...:confused:

 

Yes, you are right, I did make a typo. The deadline date should have been 30 May not 30 June.

 

 

I fail to understand on what grounds U think that U MAY have been able to appeal on??...:confused:

 

U have admitted that your daughter had invalidated her season ticket.

Whatever other things have or have NOT transpired don't change this fact.

It is for this reason that a PCN has been issued + for this reason alone.

 

 

I am not disputing the issue of the PCN. However, South Eastern Rail state in the section on their website relating to penalty fares that consideration will be given to waiving PCNs for season ticket holders who have left their tickets at home on two occasions per year. From my understanding of this, and having spoken to SE Rail, an appeal on these grounds would generally have been upheld.

 

Even though the initial letter was addressed to your daughter, it ALSO stated "Care of Parent/Guardian".

Your daughter is 15 NOT 5

 

She obviously feels old enough to 'forget' to have her photo I.D. on her when travelling using her season ticket, wishes to NOT mention the letter to U, conduct her OWN appeal + then 'forget' WHEN the deadline for that said appeal is.

 

The letter I received today, dated 10 June, was the one and only letter that was sent by the IPFAC. Whether she is 5 or 15, I am still her legal guardian, and I feel I should have been informed when she is issued with a fine. I'm not for one minute condoning her not telling me or forgetting her photocard in the first place.

 

Perhaps it MAY help to jog her memory in the future, when she remembers how old she felt when U stopped £20 out of any pocket money that U may give to her, to pay the £20 Penalty Charge instead...;)

 

I'm sure she won't forget her ID again, and she will most definitely be paying for the fine out of her allowance.

 

 

By saying that they were totally unhelpful...Do U mean that they didn't do what U wanted??...:confused:

...That being, to waiver the £20 PCN...:rolleyes:

 

Not at all. The first person I spoke to was rude. I was not asking for them to waive the PCN. I was asking for the right to be able to make an appeal against the PCN on the grounds I have stated above, because today was the first time I had been made aware that a PCN had been issued.

 

Your daughter is ultimately the one at fault, NOT the PCN system.

'Tough Love' will only benefit her in the long term.

 

 

 

...:)

..

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Hi Growlybear!

 

I appreciate what U are saying re: Appeal.

However, as blahtom123 as indicated, it is better to pay the PCN asap, before things escalate thus costing U even MORE money.

 

Although South Eastern have indicated that U MAY be able to Claim your money back, the words "consideration will be given" lends one to believe that it is NOT an absolute right, in every case.

 

Personally, I would throw myself on their mercy + STILL write a letter to their Customer Services Dept.

Try NOT to be scathing + DEMAND a refund, U will only get their backs up + get nowhere.

Write a nice polite letter, where U are open + honest with them MAY work?

...U only have the cost of a stamp to lose.

 

 

P.S. ...It is quite legal for errant daughters to be sold on e-bay btw...;):p

 

 

...:)

Edited by MilkTrayMan
WRITE a wrong...lol

The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

Blessed is he who in the name of charity and goodwill shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers.

And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

(Jules Winnfield)

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:D Listing her on eBay has certainly crossed my mind!

 

I will be writing to ask if they will consider an appeal from me after the deadline. I'm not particularly holding out much hope, but you never know. Thanks for your time in responding :-)

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Methinks U MAY have made a typo re: Deadline Date??...:confused:

 

 

 

 

I fail to understand on what grounds U think that U MAY have been able to appeal on??...:confused:

 

U have admitted that your daughter had invalidated her season ticket.

Whatever other things have or have NOT transpired don't change this fact.

It is for this reason that a PCN has been issued + for this reason alone.

 

Even though the initial letter was addressed to your daughter, it ALSO stated "Care of Parent/Guardian".

Your daughter is 15 NOT 5

 

She obviously feels old enough to 'forget' to have her photo I.D. on her when travelling using her season ticket, wishes to NOT mention the letter to U, conduct her OWN appeal + then 'forget' WHEN the deadline for that said appeal is.

 

Perhaps it MAY help to jog her memory in the future, when she remembers how old she felt when U stopped £20 out of any pocket money that U may give to her, to pay the £20 Penalty Charge instead...;)

 

 

 

 

By saying that they were totally unhelpful...Do U mean that they didn't do what U wanted??...:confused:

...That being, to waiver the £20 PCN...:rolleyes:

 

Your daughter is ultimately the one at fault, NOT the PCN system.

'Tough Love' will only benefit her in the long term.

 

 

 

...:)

 

have some heart MTM its a 15 year old kid who has forgotten her photocard.

 

Where's the common sense? its not like she walked on the train with the intent of ripping the rail company off. She probably didnt even realise she didnt have her photocard in the first place.

 

Your post is even more arrogrant and rude than mine are. Dont you realise your re-inforcing peoples views on revenue staff when you post stuff like that.

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I am a little puzzled here.

 

In buying a ticket, a person enters into a contract with the railway company. If this person is a minor, how can she enter into a contract? The only person who could be liable is the parent or guardian. The way I see it, it matters not a fig whether she is 5 or 15 - she is a minor and as she is not a sufficient age to enter into a contract, the penalty is invalid.

 

In any situation where breach of some regulation is alleged, you need to look at what the law actually says. The penalty notice will quote the legislation it was issued under. Enter this in a search engine and read what it says.

 

Quote it here and me or another member will have a look.

On some things I am very knowledgeable, on other things I am stupid. Trouble is, sometimes I discover that the former is the latter or vice versa, and I don't know this until later - maybe even much later. Read anything I write with the above in mind.

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Thanks very much for your interesting point, Esio Trot. I would have assumed that any contract was between me as the purchaser of the ticket and South Eastern Railways, and that I would be responsible for any breach of the regulations as my daughter is a minor. Unfortunately, my daughter sent back the PCN without keeping a copy, so I can't check the wording. However, now that I've spoken to her in more detail about the circumstances, it seems that the information I was given over the phone about the issue of the PCN was not quite correct. My daughter realised that she didn't have her season ticket and photocard when she got to the station, and asked the ticket collector at the barrier as she entered the station what she could do because she had forgotten her season ticket and had no money on her to buy a ticket. He told her that she could travel, but that he would have to issue her with a PCN, which she should send to the address on the form, together with copy of her pass and photocard, with no need for an accompanying letter. This is what she did, albeit fairly close to the deadline for appeal. Having been reading the information on South Eastern Railways' Penalty Charge policy, it does appear to me that the ticket collector shouldn't have issued her with a PCN under the circumstances, but shoudl have told her to get a Permit to Travel, which I understand gives authority to travel, and to make payment of the appropriate fare within two hours. From what I can see, a PCN is issued where someone appears to be trying to evade the payment of a fare. In my daughter's case, she hadn't even attempted to travel, but had sought the advice of a South Eastern Railways employee before trying to even get on to the platform, let alone board a train. So I cannot see that she breached any regulation in this instance.

Edited by Growlybear
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...It appears that my daughter was issues a penalty fare notice on 9 May on her way to school because she did not have her photocard with her to accompany her monthly train season ticket...
...My daughter realised that she didn't have her season ticket and photocard when she got to the station, and asked the ticket collector at the barrier as she entered the station what she could do because she had forgotten her season ticket and had no money on her to buy a ticket...
Your account of the events has changed Growlybear...;)

 

 

 

 

...He told her that she could travel, but that he would have to issue her with a PCN, which she should send to the address on the form, together with copy of her pass and photocard, with no need for an accompanying letter...
This is sound advice.

 

 

 

 

...Having been reading the information on South Eastern Railways' Penalty Charge policy, it does appear to me that the ticket collector shouldn't have issued her with a PCN under the circumstances, but shoudl have told her to get a Permit to Travel, which I understand gives authority to travel, and to make payment of the appropriate fare within two hours...
Here is a link to the Network Rail Website, where a comprehensive copy of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage can be downloaded from...

National Rail Conditions of Carriage

 

Further to this, here is a link to the Southeastern Website...

Southeastern Railway - Penalty Fares

 

If U scroll down the page which MY link will direct U to, U will in fact see WHEN Permit to Travel Tickets are available + valid.

It also answers many of the other questions which U may ask.

The fact that your daught had NO money with her, would have meant that she would NOT have been able to purchase one in any case...:rolleyes:

 

 

 

 

...From what I can see, a PCN is issued where someone appears to be trying to evade the payment of a fare...
That is a correct assumption to make.

Your daughter had NO valid ticket + NO money to purchase one.

She entered a Penalty Fare Station's Compulsory Ticket Area...She broke the law...She received a PCN.

...Not exactly rocket science is it??...:rolleyes:

 

 

 

 

...In my daughter's case, she hadn't even attempted to travel, but had sought the advice of a South Eastern Railways employee before trying to even get on to the platform, let alone board a train. So I cannot see that she breached any regulation in this instance...
By viewing the following link U will see a map of ALL the Southeastern Penalty Fare Stations...

http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/content/doc/cms/Penalty%20Fares%20Map.pdf

 

Please note that at Penalty Fare Stations, valid tickets are compulsory even on platforms + other areas beyond the ticket gate/booth...;)

...Below is a copy of the Railway Byelaw concerning this fact...

TRAVEL AND FARES

 

 

17. Compulsory Ticket Areas

(1) No person shall enter a compulsory ticket area on the railway unless he has with him a valid ticket.

(2) A person shall hand over his ticket for inspection and verification of validity when asked to do so by an authorised person.

(3) No person shall be in breach of Byelaw 17(1) or 17(2) if:

(i) there were no facilities in working order for the issue or validation of any ticket at the time when, and the station where, he began his journey; or

(ii) there was a notice at the station where he began his journey permitting journeys to be started without a valid ticket; or

(iii) an authorised person gave him permission to travel without a valid ticket.

 

 

 

...

:)

The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

Blessed is he who in the name of charity and goodwill shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers.

And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

(Jules Winnfield)

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Regardless of MTM's quoting of the regulations, I think the railway company are on very weak grounds here because they are dealing with a minor.

 

If the penalty is not paid, and a court claim is issued, to whom will it be addressed?

 

The penalty was issued to a minor in her name (which I am fairly certain makes it invalid anyway). I have seen a PFN recently and under the payment options it only makes reference to cheque, debit or credit cards. Cash was not acceptable, even if paying at a booking office. How can a minor have a cheque book, credit or debit card?

 

After the appeal was rejected (which the minor should not done anyway) the reply is sent to the minor c/o the parent or guardian. From what the OP has written this was the first time that recognition has been made that she is minor, hence the c/o addition.

 

I have read the regulations, and cannot find any reference to minors. It refers to "a person". and that without a valid ticket "the person" is liable to a penalty. IMO "a person" does not include parent or guardian.

 

My thoughts are to ignore this PFN. If they were to ever issue court proceedings, they can't name the minor, and so would have to name the parents or guardians. The parents or guardians are not responsible as they are not "the person" and the regulations make no mention of dealing with minors, or stating that where a minor is concerned a parent or guardian is responsible.

On some things I am very knowledgeable, on other things I am stupid. Trouble is, sometimes I discover that the former is the latter or vice versa, and I don't know this until later - maybe even much later. Read anything I write with the above in mind.

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Many thanks for your advice. When I asked about further action that would be taken if the PCN was not paid, as well as being told that they would start court proceedings when she was 18, I was also told that if that was not paid, details of the debt would affect her credit rating in future years! however, I have written to set out why I think the PCN should be withdrawn, and will wait to see what response I get.

 

MTM - as I said in my last post, once I had been able to discuss what had happened with my daughter, she told me that the circumstances were different to what I had been told by IPFAS. It is not a question of me changing my account of the events - I was given a different side to the situation by my daughter.

 

In respect of your comment about my daughter entering a compulsory ticket area of a station without a ticket, this was not the case. She approached the ticket collector at the barrier and explained her predicament to him before attempting to access the platform. He then issued the PCN and allowed her to proceed. As far as I'm aware, the main hall of a station is not a compulsory ticket area. Therefore my daughter was not attempting to evade paying for her ticket at all.

 

I have already read the websites to which you provide links, but thank you anyway.

 

I am confident that I have good grounds to get the PCN withdrawn given the circumstances. :)

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Many thanks for your advice. When I asked about further action that would be taken if the PCN was not paid, as well as being told that they would start court proceedings when she was 18, I was also told that if that was not paid, details of the debt would affect her credit rating in future years! however, I have written to set out why I think the PCN should be withdrawn, and will wait to see what response I get.

 

What a load of ballcocks.

 

What if she was 10 years old, or even 5? She is a minor. The PCN is invalid.

 

If you don't get a satisfactory response this time, may I suggest you write to your MP. I'm sure that s/he will be glad to rattle a few cages.

On some things I am very knowledgeable, on other things I am stupid. Trouble is, sometimes I discover that the former is the latter or vice versa, and I don't know this until later - maybe even much later. Read anything I write with the above in mind.

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I am a little puzzled here.

 

In buying a ticket, a person enters into a contract with the railway company. If this person is a minor, how can she enter into a contract?

See the Legistlation + Case Law links below...;)

The only person who could be liable is the parent or guardian. The way I see it, it matters not a fig whether she is 5 or 15 - she is a minor and as she is not a sufficient age to enter into a contract, the penalty is invalid.

 

In any situation where breach of some regulation is alleged, you need to look at what the law actually says. The penalty notice will quote the legislation it was issued under. Enter this in a search engine and read what it says.

 

Quote it here and me or another member will have a look.

Minors' Contract Act 1987

Contract Law Essays: Minors' Contracts

 

(btw...The correct way to address someone who Posts on CAG is a User NOT a Member...:wink:)

 

 

 

 

Regardless of MTM's quoting of the regulations, I think the railway company are on very weak grounds here because they are dealing with a minor.

 

The penalty was issued to a minor in her name (which I am fairly certain makes it invalid anyway).

 

I have read the regulations, and cannot find any reference to minors. It refers to "a person". and that without a valid ticket "the person" is liable to a penalty. IMO "a person" does not include parent or guardian.

 

My thoughts are to ignore this PFN...

U are entitled to express YOUR thoughts, but methinks that U know VERY little about Contract Law Esio Trot.

...I refer U to the links provided above...:rolleyes:

 

Perhaps 'a person' is mentioned, cos there is NO age discrimination eh??...:wink:

...Otherwise trains/buses etc would be innundated by hoards of non-fare paying teenaged 'hoodies' wouldn't it??...:evil:

 

 

 

 

 

...In respect of your comment about my daughter entering a compulsory ticket area of a station without a ticket, this was not the case. She approached the ticket collector at the barrier and explained her predicament to him before attempting to access the platform. He then issued the PCN and allowed her to proceed. As far as I'm aware, the main hall of a station is not a compulsory ticket area. Therefore my daughter was not attempting to evade paying for her ticket at all.
Your daughter had NO valid ticket entitling her to enter a Penalty Charge Compulsory Ticket Area.

Your daughter had NO money to purchase a valid ticket.

Your daughter was issued with a PCN, to enable her to be in a CTA with what amounted to a 'valid ticket/authorisation'.

 

 

The Ticket Collector used his discretion, he/she could/should have refused her TOTAL admittance to the Station Assets.

U would have wished that he/she had done that instead of issuing your daughter a PCN??...:???:

 

Methinks that if it had been MY daughter...I would be extremely grateful.

...£20 would be a VERY small price to pay for her safety etc etc.

 

 

 

 

 

...I am confident that I have good grounds to get the PCN withdrawn given the circumstances.

I fail to see ANY grounds that U have tbh, other than supplying a copy of your daughter's season ticket + photo I.D. + throwing yourself on the TOC's mercy re: Appealing AFTER the stated deadline.

 

Best of luck in any event Growlybear...:)

 

 

 

Here are some further links that MAY be of interest...

 

I have booked my ticket with a railcard - do I need to bring this with me?

I've lost my season ticket - what can I do?

I have lost my ticket - what are my rights?

Do I have to buy a ticket?

Do I have to pay for my children to travel on the train?

The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

Blessed is he who in the name of charity and goodwill shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers.

And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

(Jules Winnfield)

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Why do you have to be so dogmatic in your replies? The good thing about forums is that they are open to reasoned debate. It seems to me that your opinions are like those of many politicians - not particularly believed, but spouted because it is the party line. You need to more reasoned in your postings, and be prepared to accept that many issues do have greyness and are not as black and white as you think.

 

 

Thank you so much for those links. I have viewed them, and it has confirmed exactly what I have been saying: unless a contract is one of necessity (e.g. an apprenticeship, food) then whilst it is binding on the other party, the same is not true of the party who is a minor.

 

 

(btw...The correct way to address someone who Posts on CAG is a User NOT a Member...:wink:)
It seems to me that you are one of these people that gets involved in pedantry, but fails to appreciate the richness of the English language. Whilst the term "user" might be used, this would also include those visitors to this site that are guests and are not registered. In order to reply to any topic it is a mandatory requirement that one joins and is registered. Only when registered can a reply be made. If you "join" a group, then ipso facto, you are a member. One of many sources on-line has member defined as:
one of the persons who compose a social group (especially individuals who have joined and participates in a group organization)

......

.

The Ticket Collector used his discretion, he/she could/should have refused her TOTAL admittance to the Station Assets.

You would have wished that he/she had done that instead of issuing your daughter a PCN??...:???:

If she proceeded onto the platform, I hardly think that the TC would have physically stopped her, and thus risk a charge of assault - particularly with a young female where such action could easily be misconstrued by the minor as a sexual assault :o.

 

I fail to see ANY grounds that you have tbh, other than supplying a copy of your daughter's season ticket + photo I.D. + throwing yourself on the TOC's mercy re: Appealing AFTER the stated deadline.
If you truly fail to see, then you are unable to offer constructive comment to the OP. Perhaps it is your nature and cannot be helped, but having read many of your posts it does seem that you have a tendancy to reply in bombastic and self-righteous manner.

 

There is no mercy to seek. The operating company could, and should, in the name of good customer relations have offered an olive branch. There are many ways for them to have done this. For example, they could have said that the appeal is dismissed, but having read the file and in the manner of good relations and to close the matter are willing to accept the sum of £xx being the single fare for the journey undertaken.

 

If I recall it correctly from other posts, you are a current serving RPI. If true, I do hope that you are much more customer oriented in your work than evident in your persona portrayed on this site.

On some things I am very knowledgeable, on other things I am stupid. Trouble is, sometimes I discover that the former is the latter or vice versa, and I don't know this until later - maybe even much later. Read anything I write with the above in mind.

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Many thanks for taking the time to offer your advice, Esio Trot - it's much appreciated. I'm sorry that my query seems to have led to a bit of a ruck; having never been issued with a PCN before, I thought this would be a good place to come for some advice; I didn't quite expect the response I've had and I think I'll back out of this now. But I'll come back and let you know when I've had confirmation that the PCN has been cancelled. :D

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  • 3 weeks later...

I thought I would give an update on my daughter's penalty fare notice. I had a letter from SouthEastern on Thursday acknowledging that their member of staff had acted inappropriately in issuing my daughter with a penalty fare notice when she had not been attempting to travel or gain access to the platform without her ticket. They explained that the correct course of action would have been to set a Silk arrangement in place, whereby the staff at the station could have liaised with staff at her destination station and I could have met her at the station to pay her fare. SouthEastern have told me that they will ensure that their staff at the station in question are better informed in future.

 

This was confirmed in the letter I have received from IPFAS this morning. IPFAS said in their letter that one of the instances in which they will assess an appeal 'is where the penalty fare notice has been issued to a minor, and the parent/guardian of said child had not been informed of said issue. This is because the child may not understand the right of appeal, and the first a parent/guardian would know of the matter is the reminder from Revenue Protection Support Services'. Now that I have brought this to their attention, IPFAS have cancelled the penalty fare notice. Had the jobsworth I spoke to on the telephone initially not been so intent on being as unhelpful as possible, and been a little more aware of the IPFAS guidelines in assessing appeals and accepted that parents should be informed when their children are issued with fines, this could have been resolved far more quickly.

 

Anyway thank you to those who offered help.

Edited by Growlybear
typo
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Marvellous News!

 

I'm really pleased sense prevailed.

On some things I am very knowledgeable, on other things I am stupid. Trouble is, sometimes I discover that the former is the latter or vice versa, and I don't know this until later - maybe even much later. Read anything I write with the above in mind.

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First of all, MTM, if your posts are not going to be constructive, you should focus on other areas. Objective, yes. Obstructive no.

 

Growlybear,

 

Only just seen this thread, as my Niece has a similar problem. As they have threatened Court action against your daughter when she is 18, maybe worth ensuring that ALL of her data is removed from their systems (being stored or processed) and that they have not forwarded it to any third party. If they cannot provide a reason as to why they will retain her data, then request confirmation in writing that it has been deleted / destroyed.

 

Tide

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Thank you very much for that suggestion, Tide. I had planned on writing to IPFAS out of courtesy to thank them for cancelling the PCN, so I will raise this with them.

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  • 4 years later...

In all honesty, as much as this may be inconvinient for you, the best thing you can do in my opinion would be phone the company and arrange to have the fine paid back in small installments. If they do not accept this then try to appeal again and make your point heard that you didn't know about this and cannot pay them back all at once.

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In all honesty, as much as this may be inconvinient for you, the best thing you can do in my opinion would be phone the company and arrange to have the fine paid back in small installments. If they do not accept this then try to appeal again and make your point heard that you didn't know about this and cannot pay them back all at once.

 

I'm a little confused here.

 

You have posted on a thread that seems to have had no response for over 4 years now and your post doesn't seem to be relevant to the thread at all.

 

Sorry if I've missed something, but I have re-read the thread a couple of times and this last post doesn't seem to make sense.

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