RBS, defaults, DCA's and SAR - answers please?

[spaspeckerthedull]

OK, not been around for a while (various personal reasons, industrial injuries, loss of baby plus other stuff) so I need to do some catching up.

 

sent RBS a SAR, they failed to comply properly, sent incomplete info - all the usual. Sent them LBA, they sent pathetic response claiming compliance etc. Only trouble is the last correspondence was in january and for reasons outlined above I've not followed it up.

 

Do I have to start the whole process again or can I start proceedings for failing to furnish etc.? reasons for SAR is I want to instigate PPI claim, claim for unlawful charges on royalties account/unauthorised overdraft/bounced direct debits plus I wanted proof of personal loan details

 

All help and/or pointers much appreciated as usual

[BankFodder]

Don't bother to start again. Pick it from where you left off. Don't bother to explain your personal problems to them to justify the delay in getting back. They don't deserve the coutesy and they don't care anyway.

 

You must be pepared to sue if you want to get anywhere with them. If you aren't then don't bother.

 

If you sne them an LBA last tie then you might just send them another one giving them 7 days and then sue.

If you have any info about any charges then sue for the charges and put the DPA breach into the claim as well and ask for an order that they comply. Because it will seem to be mainly a money claim you will manage to pay only the normal fee. Otherwise it could be £150

[spaspeckerthedull]

thanks for the response - i've no issues at all about suing them, but need to clarify exactly how to go about it. Also, not up to date with procedures - what's a DPA claim involve?

 

additional: the only info they sent me that complies with my request is stuff relating to when my accounts were passed to CMS telford and only date back to 2000, information I requested/require/need goes back to 1995 when I opened the original current account, plus my personal loan stuff from around 1997. I'm going to need a bit of "hand-holding" here until I get back into the swing of things - how do I find out what charges to claim if they've witheld the relevant info, and what sort of fight can I expect? we're not talking about an insubstantial amount here as by my reckoning the charge for PPI on the original loan amounts to summat like £3000 (I need to clarify) plus can you claim PPI charges even if you claimed on it?

[BankFodder]

Who are we talking about here?

[spaspeckerthedull]

Who are we talking about here?

 

i'm sorry, I don't understand when you say "who"?

[BankFodder]

Sorry, I've just noticed that it is RBS.

I'm going to move the thread

[spaspeckerthedull]

OK thanks for that!!

[BankFodder]

I suggest that you put together a schedule of all of the charges which you know about so far. Put them into our spreadsheet somewhere on this forum.

 

The sned a copy to RBS and tell them that you want it all back and also that you confirm your last letter dated January that they have failed to comply with your SAR and that you will be issuing proceedings on both the charges issue and the DPA issue unless they respond satisfactorily to you.

 

Try to get the charges done by Monday and get this LBA off then.

 

Make sure that you read up fully what you are doing so that we are not holding your hand all the say. you will feel calmer and more confident if you understand the issues and the process.

 

In your letter to them about the missing data, do not at this stage tell them what it is that you are after. Leav it open so that they can't simply find stuff that you have identified for them and not bother with the rest.

 

However, I owuld like to know the text of your original SAR. Please will you scan it or repeat it here.

[BankFodder]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/201984-why-let-your-bank.html#post2198541

[spaspeckerthedull]

I'd like to put together a list of charges that I know about, unfortunately I don't know what they are without the missing information!!

 

original SAR is as follows:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Account No: ********

Sort Code: ******

 

 

 

I understand that you currently hold details of my personal and financial information within your internal record systems with regard to current accounts, personal loan accounts and/or credit cards.

 

 

Please supply me with a complete list of all transactions and charges relating to my entire history with your organisation, INCLUDING loans and/or credit cards, payment protection insurance and other products. Alternatively a complete set of statements for the accounts or associated accounts is acceptable. I would be grateful if you would provide the following for ALL accounts or associated accounts I have held with your organisation:

 

 

Full copies of all contracts which you believe exist or have existed between myself and your organisation, including true copies of any documents you hold in support of the same

 

A complete list of all transactions or statements relating to ALL of my Loan Accounts and or credit cards with your organisation.

 

Copies of all documents which include any of my personal information including copies of any contacts or invoices, emails or computer records containing my personal information, or any records which pertain to this information.

 

Full copies or transcripts of any correspondence in postal, email or any other format which you have entered into with any individual, organisation or third party which contains my personal or financial information, or which pertains to me.

 

Where any previous information or records held have been deleted or disposed of, the methods used to do so, including dates, certificates or references confirming details of destruction. Where you are unable to provide such certificates, please provide a declaration, signed by an authorised officer of your company, confirming the dates and methods of destruction of this data.

 

Full hard copy printouts of my personal or financial information, held in a digital, magnetic or any other format which is held in any archives, backups or other storage devices / locations. I will not accept the excuse that historic entries are stored on microfiche. If this statement is made I shall make a full formal complaint to the Information Commissioner.

 

where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my banking business with you. If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 calendar days in which to comply. If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

 

I would be happy to collect the Data from my local branch.

 

 

IF YOU UNABLE TO DEAL WITH THIS REQUEST, YOU SHOULD IMMEDIATELY FORWARD IT TO THE PERSON WITHIN YOUR ORGANISATION RESPONSIBLE FOR DATA PROTECTION

 

 

I look forward to hearing from you in the first instance of receipt.

 

Yours faithfully

 

also, here is the LBA I sent them:

 

Dear Joyce E Tudor

 

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

 

 

Section 7 – Data Protection Act 1998

 

 

I am in receipt of the documents that you have supplied in response to my Data Protection Act information request dated **/**/08. The disclosure of personal data is incomplete in that at least the following documents are missing:

 

 

1) You have failed to provide a complete list of transactions and charges

2) You have provided no notes, or documents relating to any legal action between you and myself.

3) You have provided no notes, or documents relating to instances of manual intervention.

 

This is not an exhaustive list by any means, it is just an example of some of the information I am missing.

 

Accordingly, I have to tell you that you have not yet complied with your obligations under the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

The time for compliance with my request has now expired. If you do not comply fully with my Subject Access Request within 7 days, I shall apply to the County Court for an order to enforce compliance, together with damages at the discretion of the court.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

I can post up scans or transcripts of their responses if it would help - BTW i've just found the correct PPI fee, it is £2109 for a product called "loanguard"

[BankFodder]

I had gathered that you had at least some account info. Maybe even just a few definite info ab out a few charges.

 

Is the account still open?

[spaspeckerthedull]

the royalties account is closed with a balance of zero (confirmed in writing by them) the personal loan account is still open but in dispute after they failed to provide evidence off the back of a CCA request

[BankFodder]

Yes, but when was it closed?

[spaspeckerthedull]

I knew you'd ask that!! can't find the exact date, it was closed by them after my repayment schedule cleared the arrears on the account but it was some time within the last 2 years. I've a lot of "nonsense" stuff from them - the usual padding they think suffices to cover requests and it's gonna take some searching to find it, after moving house a lot of it was put away in boxes in the loft

[BankFodder]

The danger is that if you begin a claim merely for the SAR then you could be looking at a court fee of £150 as you have to start a part 8 claim. If you had some charges to clai then you could make a money claim and sneak the DPA issue in and pay a very much reduced fee.

 

You need to get a move on but as it has been so long then maybe you need to resume the corresponence for a couple of weeks - but maybe no longer and then the LBA.

 

You need to be very assertive with them. Nitify them that they have not complied with your SAR. That they are now bound by the FSA regs to treat you fairly and that they are in breach of this. Also inform them that if they do not comply, that not only will you be suing them but that you will aslo make a complaint to the IC as well as the FOS about their failure to treat you fairly.

 

You could merely send the LBA if you wanted.

 

I hope that this time you won't let it go again. They may well look at your file and conclude that you are bluffing again.

 

Also, it may be time to get all of the paperwork out of the loft and organise it.

[spaspeckerthedull]

GRRR - forgot to press submit, here's the reply again

 

the court fee for £150 wouldn't phase me if I knew I was going to get my charges back, after all they kicked me for long enough it's time i started kicking back!! as I don't know what the charges are due to their refusal/reluctance to send copies/evidence to me should I just estimate what they are? also should I open up a seperate thread for advice on the PPI/loanguard charges claim?

 

i'm not going to let this lapse this time, i'm on top of it (work permitting obviously!!) and am quite looking forward to the fight - my sleeves are rolled up and everything! seriously though, what can I expect by the way of resistance and/or delay tactics?

 

BTW, i'm going to post up scans of correspondence as you may be able to find me some more ammunition as you pick through the bones

[spaspeckerthedull]

OK - last letter from them

 

 

which is an outright lie as they have always been informed of every move i've made.

 

the pack also included the following:

 

 

 

 

 

 

and finally:

 

 

 

the second letter down says the copy of my loan agreement is in an offsite storage facility etc. - as of even date the only document i've received from them is the usual hasty reconstruction of an application form, which contains incorrect information, and when I queried it I got the 4th letter down which is the usual "we don't have to provide the original" guff

 

hope any of this helps

[BankFodder]

Well that doesn't seem to say very much.

 

Are you really saying that they supplied you with no account information in response to your disclsoure request? That is very strange. They would normally supply at least 6 years of statements and the prblem would be getting the rest.

They say that your request was made under s.77 of the DPA but they are wrong. It is s.7. An error, I suppose.

 

Could you email me on admin(at)consumeractiongroup.co.uk with a phone number.

 

There are a few things here which will be more quickly sorted out on a phone call rather than to and fro on the forum

 

What is this about sending stuff to another address? It would help if you would not blank out the months please. I lose the temporal perspective of it all.

[spaspeckerthedull]

agreed - it doesn't say much at all, the only info I received under my SAR was a bunch of the usual padding in the form of photocopied T&C's, plus a single sheet showing records of payments made by me to CMS telford since the account went to them in march 2001. Other stuff included approx 3 - 4 diary entries confirming times and dates of my visits to my local branch and that's about it. Absolutely nothing at all was provided relating to my royalties account, or any statements to that effect. They also failed to provide any copies of any documentation relating to my personal loan or PPI except for the usual reconstructed application form - which also contained incorrect information. RE discussing over the phone, please drop me your email address via PM and i'm sure we can sort summat out.

 

Once again, the help is much appreciated

[BankFodder]

You have my email in post 18

[BankFodder]

No email

[spaspeckerthedull]

email sent to address in post 18, tried sending PM but your box is full

[BankFodder]

email sent to address in post 18, tried sending PM but your box is full

Which is why I say email.

 

I've received it and responded. Let me know that you received it. Check that your spam box doesn't have it if it doesn't arrive

[leeds1]

CMS Telford need investigating.

 

they are more than they make out to be.

 

this is worth watching, here is part 4 of a set of films dedicated to exposing the (RBS) banks behaviour and their involvement with CMS Telford.

 

YouTube - ROYAL BANK OF SCOTLAND CLIP 4

[spaspeckerthedull]

recently sent RBS a SAR on all my old RBS accounts,

 

the 40 days elapsed with no response whatsoever

 

so in went a LBA, giving them a further 7 days, to which they have not replied.

 

I note with interest the arrogant swines have cashed the cheque for the £10 fee

 

what next?

 

court enforcement and if so, is there an idiots guide?