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WHY DO DCA'S HAVE TO PROVE THE DEBT

 

When you first take on credit you sign a CCA, this agreement must be produced by a DCA when challenged.

It is the law and legislation is in place. Legislation states that it must be supplied on demand. It is not a duty for them to supply it, it is required by law to provide it. The original CCA must be provided on request by the DCA and if they cannot provide it, the debt is in dispute. The original CCA should have your signature on it and the T&C's.

 

NO ENFORCABLE AGREEMENT

NO DEBT.

 

If your debt is over six years old (5 in Scotland) without you acknowledging it, it then becomes Statute Barred. This means that by law the debt is not enforcable. If you feel your debt is Statute Barred you can send the DCA a letter, which you find in the Letters Template. You will also find a template for a CCA request. Don't make it easy for DCA's, don't give in to the DCA bully's, they don't have as much power as they would like you to think they have and we have far more power (thanks to this site) than they would like you to think you have. :D

Edited by Fighting-Fit
typo
  • Haha 1

Fight the injustice's of life with joy in your heart and abandon bitterness as it will destroy YOUR soul. Just at the foot, of a very steep learning curve. ;)

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I have spent many hours looking through threads and have gained a lot of experience (relatively speaking) from the work I have put in (in a very short period of time). It is an on-going project and I am just at the beginning of a very steep learning curve. During this experience I have come across little gems of comedy genius, this is my favourite so far. I am sure you all have your favourites and the long-standing members will have seen a lot more than me. This is the best I have seen on THE DEBT COLLECTION INDUSTRY and was posted by Percival Wigglesbottom on 31st July 2007. See what you think;

 

DCA TELEPHONE HARASSMENT

 

They have recently started pestering me , for an old debt ..

 

DCA : Hello, are you Mr Percival Wigglesbottom ?

 

Percy : Alas no , that is my former name . I am now Mr Bard , so named after the many a minstrel and troubadour that have graced the pages of literature and poetry in our grand medieval history .

 

 

DCA : Can I inquire as to your Forename Mr Bard ?

 

Percy : Statute , now F*** off .

 

 

Thank you so much Percy for this little gem. :D

THIS POST NOW HAS IT'S OWN THREAD IN THE BEAR GARDEN

Edited by Fighting-Fit
OWN THREAD IN BEAR GARDEN

Fight the injustice's of life with joy in your heart and abandon bitterness as it will destroy YOUR soul. Just at the foot, of a very steep learning curve. ;)

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STATUTE BARRED

 

If you think your debt is Statute Barred you will find a template letter here. Letter M.

 

Creditors & DCAs Letter Templates & Budget Planner

 

This letter is suitable for member's in England and Wales. Members in Scotland would find this one more appropriate.

 

I would point out that under The Prescription and Limitation (Scotland) Act 1973 Part 1 Section 6 "If, after the appropriate date, an obligation to which this section applies has subsided for a continuous period of 5 years:

 

(a) without any relevant claim having been made in relation to the obligation, and

(b) without the subsistence of the obligation having been relevantly acknowledged,

then as from the expiration of that period the obligation shall be extinguished:"

 

The last acknowledgement of this alleged debt was made over five years ago. Unless you can provide evidence of payment or written acknowledgement from myself in the relevant period under Part 1 Section 6 of The Prescription and Limitation (Scotland) Act 1973 , I would respectfully suggest that you are no longer able to take any court action against myself to recover the alleged amount claimed.

 

Should you continue to pursue this account without providing this evidence I shall seek an interdict and damages accordingly. A formal complaint will also be made to Trading Standards along with a report to the OFT questioning your fitness to hold a consumer credit license.

 

 

yours etc

 

 

Edited by Fighting-Fit
typo

Fight the injustice's of life with joy in your heart and abandon bitterness as it will destroy YOUR soul. Just at the foot, of a very steep learning curve. ;)

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HARASSMENT FROM DCA'S

 

If you are being harassed on the phone or are being threatened by a goon squad home visit you will find the appropriate letters to send them here;

 

Dca / Creditor Harassment By Telephone Letter

 

DCA -response to threats of home visits

 

These template letters are not suitable for a home visit in Scotland where this letter would be more appropriate.

 

Dear Goons

 

Account Ref 123456

 

Please be advised that I will only communicate with you in writing. I have noted your repeated attempts to contact me by telephone over the past few weeks/months and these have been duly logged by time and date.

 

Furthermore, should it be your intention to arrange a "doorstep call", please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you.

 

There is only an implied license under Scots Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc. Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives, to visit me at my property and if you attempt to send such a collector to my home you will also be reported for harassment and I shall seek damages for a delict o trespass by acting in defiance of my instructions ans sending someone to visit me netherless. Should it be necessary, I will obtain an interdict from the Court to prevent you carrying out your threat.

 

Yours faithfully

 

ONE FUMING P*SSED OFF CAG MEMBER :mad:

Fight the injustice's of life with joy in your heart and abandon bitterness as it will destroy YOUR soul. Just at the foot, of a very steep learning curve. ;)

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IS MY AGREEMENT ENFORCEABLE( Via section 127(3) CCA1974)

PRESCRIBED TERMS FOR THE PURPOSES OF SECTIONS 61(1)(0) AND 127(3) OF THE

CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974 Taken from sced.6(1983/1553) regulations

(If you just want to find out, skip the bits in between the stars it’s just some extra information)

 

**What do we mean by unenforceable?

In the Consumer Credit Act section 127 there is a provision for making an agreement unenforceable if it does not contain certain pieces of information.

Subsections 1,2,3,4 state which pieces of information these are, and everything mentioned there must be included within the body of the agreement, if one is missing the agreement is unenforceable.

 

How does unenforceable differ from enforceable with a court order only?

When an agreement is unenforceable it means that the court or the judge cannot make a ruling on it. The court cannot make it enforceable.

When an agreement is enforceable only by ruling of the court it means that the agreement can be stopped by the debtor but the court has the power to re-instate it and allow the credit to continue to enforce.**

 

The Pescribed Terms are these

 

A Amount of credit

A term stating the amount of credit

 

B Repayments

A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following-

(a) Number of repayments;

(b) Amount of repayments;

© Frequency and timing of repayments;

(d) Dates of repayments;

(e) The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

 

C Rate of interest

A term stating the rate of interest to be applied to the credit issued under the agreement

D Credit limit

This may be a term or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit.

--------------------------

 

Which of these applies to you depends on the type of agreement you have?

 

For a Running Account (credit card) agreement

 

BC and D Apply

 

For a Restricted Use Debtor Creditor Supplier

  • Where the dealer is the supplier and the creditor is the one providing the finance.
  • The money can only be used for the purpose it is given.
  • There is no interest on the purchase (the cash price is the same as the total price)
  • And there is no advance payment

A is applicable

 

For a fixed Sum Credit Agreement

A conventional credit agreement with none of the above restrictions

 

A and B apply

 

For a Hire Agreement

 

B is Applicable

 

This paper only covers section 127(3) of the Act agreements can also be unenforceable by contravention of sections 1 and4 this will be the subject of the next paper.

Please note that these Prescribed terms where not changed in any way by the 2004/1482 Ammendments although the form in which they appear on the agreement was. Subsection127(3) was repealed on the 6th of April 2007 so that unenforceability due to 127(3) will only apply to agreemens executed before that date.

Edited by Fighting-Fit

Fight the injustice's of life with joy in your heart and abandon bitterness as it will destroy YOUR soul. Just at the foot, of a very steep learning curve. ;)

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Subscribing! I'm having some abuse andwhat looks like mispractice from HFO.

 

I have arranged a 3month payment plan that will pay off the whole debt...and they still ring me up asking me to pay HERE AND NOW even after the agreement etc a month later. Haven't missed any payments ect. And they said they will charge hundreds of pounds more of what is owed if i don't pay them over 100 there and then.

 

And guess what...i have the WHOLE conversation recorded :D

 

Bunch of cowboys!!

Thanks to this forum...my anxiety and that sick worrying feeling i have is starting to ease off now i know i have some legal rights.

 

I have a thread about my problem and its quite short if you feel like visiting it..i would appreciate your advice.

I recorded HFO threatening to add £100 interest on the spot to a £120 owed debt :cool:

 

I recorded HFO breaking the data protection act and admittidly breaking the telecomms act :cool:

 

Oh how funny? HFO called me with a £20 settlement fee for the "inconvenience" and sent me a fabulous letter to confirm the debt is now settled :p

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hi i too have debts with cap 1 and halifax,,(have threads on here about them) had 2 letters of blair oliver and scott in feb and march demanding money CCA,d them...heard nothing..debt was for 7 yrs ago..also CCA,d debitas has they were harrassing..they passed back to cap 1 ..cap 1 wanted signature b4 they sent CCA..i didnt sign of cause :),they are lwtting me pay 1.00 per month and situation will be re assed nxt may ..mmm i guess they still want money from me knowing in my views i dont think they have the proper agreement..good luck eveyone and thanks to this great site i can sleep at night ;)

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Hi there,

If I have been making payments to the DCA (in effect acknowledging the debt) does it mean I can't go down the CCA route? I don't not want to pay the debt back, but I suspect the DCA are applying interest. I say suspect because they won't supply me with details of how the account stands after making payments for 3 years.

Am bewildered!!!

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Hi emma,

 

It would be best for you to start your own thread so replies don't get mixed up on this one.

 

You can request your CCA at any time.

 

DCAs have an obligation to supply a statement of your account free of charge at your request. Write requesting this and their complaints procedure, send recorded, do not sign, print your name or intial it, keep a copy with the postal reciept.

"To love unconditionally is the greatest gift, laughter is a close second" .To give your time to help others after being helped here is the best way to show your appreciation to your fellow CAG members.

 

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts. All my knowledge has been gained here, for which I'm very grateful. I'm a Journalist, not a law professional.

 

If you do PM, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private ;)

BB 13 - DCAs/banks and solicitors 0.

 

I get a fresh start to get on with learning to live with severe disabilities when they could have had something if they'd been understanding...

 

<--- If you feel I've helped, please twinkle my star :)

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Thanks babybear. I have requested a statement already and alas didn't find this site first so I signed and named the letter. Does this nullify any future claim?

Also, what can I do if I discover they have been applying interest without notifying me. Can they do this?

Sorry to sound like a Luddite, but how do I start a thread? Can I transfer our correspondence to it?

Thanks

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If you go back to the thread list screen and scroll up, there's a 'new thread' button. You can copy and paste your original post in there and we'll be along to help you. Post back here the name of your thread and I'll post my answers there too :)

"To love unconditionally is the greatest gift, laughter is a close second" .To give your time to help others after being helped here is the best way to show your appreciation to your fellow CAG members.

 

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts. All my knowledge has been gained here, for which I'm very grateful. I'm a Journalist, not a law professional.

 

If you do PM, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private ;)

BB 13 - DCAs/banks and solicitors 0.

 

I get a fresh start to get on with learning to live with severe disabilities when they could have had something if they'd been understanding...

 

<--- If you feel I've helped, please twinkle my star :)

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Thank's babybear :) You beat me to it.

Fight the injustice's of life with joy in your heart and abandon bitterness as it will destroy YOUR soul. Just at the foot, of a very steep learning curve. ;)

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S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)

 

 

I have sourced the template for the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) letter here;

 

 

1. Data Protection Act, Subject Access Request letter - List of charges

 

I would like to SAR the CRA's (Credit Reference Agency) and the OC. On the above link it mentions sending it to the Data Controller. How do you make sure you send it to the right office (In the case of the CRA's, I can find the address). Would I have to write to the OC in the first instance to check the right address for the Data Controller. Also, I have moved address 6 times in the last 5 years. Would I have to inform them of all my addresses in the last 6 years.

 

Can anyone help with this please. :)

Fight the injustice's of life with joy in your heart and abandon bitterness as it will destroy YOUR soul. Just at the foot, of a very steep learning curve. ;)

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If I just send the SAR to the OC (Original Creditor) addressed to the Data Controller at the address I have (for them) along with a list of all my previous addresses from the last 6 years and a photocopy of my passport and a utility bill (as proof of my identity), would that be correct.

 

Can anyone help please. :)

Fight the injustice's of life with joy in your heart and abandon bitterness as it will destroy YOUR soul. Just at the foot, of a very steep learning curve. ;)

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a photocopy of my passport and a utility bill (as proof of my identity)

 

you are joking arent you?

post office WON 12/11/06

 

abbey.LBA sent 30/10/06.MCOL claim submitted 8/11/06.allocation questionnaire sent 16/12/06.schedule of charges sent 16/12/06.WON

 

2nd abbey claim SAR sent 3/1/07.WON.complaint letter sent 18/1/08

 

alliance and Leicester.WON

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Do not send a copy of your passport!!!

 

It has your signature on.

 

Utility bills are enough.

Edited by babybear39
forgot something

"To love unconditionally is the greatest gift, laughter is a close second" .To give your time to help others after being helped here is the best way to show your appreciation to your fellow CAG members.

 

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts. All my knowledge has been gained here, for which I'm very grateful. I'm a Journalist, not a law professional.

 

If you do PM, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private ;)

BB 13 - DCAs/banks and solicitors 0.

 

I get a fresh start to get on with learning to live with severe disabilities when they could have had something if they'd been understanding...

 

<--- If you feel I've helped, please twinkle my star :)

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Thanks Babybear. I sent a copy of my passport to Equifax when I applied for my credit reference. They had asked for it. That was before I found this site. they asked for an utility bill and a copy of either passport or driving licence. I could black out my signature. What do you think.

Fight the injustice's of life with joy in your heart and abandon bitterness as it will destroy YOUR soul. Just at the foot, of a very steep learning curve. ;)

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OFT guidlines clearly state the following:

 

Deceptive and/or unfair methods

2.7 Dealings with debtors are not to be deceitful and/or unfair.

2.8 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

a. sending demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that

they are the debtor in question, for example, threatening debt recovery

action to 'the occupier' or sending a payment demand to all people sharing

the same name/date of birth as a debtor in the hope that contact with the

correct debtor will be made.

b. disclosing debt details to an individual when it is uncertain that they are

the debtor in question, for example, disclosing details to 'the occupier' of

an address.

c. refusing to deal with appointed or authorised third parties, such

as Citizens Advice Bureaux, independent advice centres or money

advisers

d. contacting debtors directly and bypassing their appointed representatives

e. operating a policy, without reason, of refusing to negotiate with

debt management companies

f. passing on debtor details to debt management companies without the

debtors' informed prior consent

g. failing to refer on to the creditor reasonable offers to pay by instalments

h. not passing on payments received within a reasonable time resulting in

delays that adversely affect a debtor's financial position.

i. failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is

queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued

j. requiring an individual to supply information to prove they are not the

debtor in question, for example, driving licences, passports, full name,

date of birth, signatures

 

Quote this and tell them to * off.

  • Haha 1

"To love unconditionally is the greatest gift, laughter is a close second" .To give your time to help others after being helped here is the best way to show your appreciation to your fellow CAG members.

 

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts. All my knowledge has been gained here, for which I'm very grateful. I'm a Journalist, not a law professional.

 

If you do PM, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private ;)

BB 13 - DCAs/banks and solicitors 0.

 

I get a fresh start to get on with learning to live with severe disabilities when they could have had something if they'd been understanding...

 

<--- If you feel I've helped, please twinkle my star :)

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Thanks again Babybear. I tipped you scales but a comment appeared stating I should spread some Reputation around before giving Babybear anymore! Dont know what thats all about. Sorry :confused:

  • Haha 1

Fight the injustice's of life with joy in your heart and abandon bitterness as it will destroy YOUR soul. Just at the foot, of a very steep learning curve. ;)

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No worries FF, it's the thought that counts. I'm glad to be of help :)

"To love unconditionally is the greatest gift, laughter is a close second" .To give your time to help others after being helped here is the best way to show your appreciation to your fellow CAG members.

 

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts. All my knowledge has been gained here, for which I'm very grateful. I'm a Journalist, not a law professional.

 

If you do PM, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private ;)

BB 13 - DCAs/banks and solicitors 0.

 

I get a fresh start to get on with learning to live with severe disabilities when they could have had something if they'd been understanding...

 

<--- If you feel I've helped, please twinkle my star :)

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I have found this and would like to post it up on my thread as a point of reference and hopefully will be of some help to other members. Apologies if this is posted elsewhere.

 

Consumer protection from unfair trading (but don't tell anybody)

 

You may be aware that the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations (CPUTR) come into force on 26 May 2008. They have been described by the Department for Business Enterprise and Regulatory Reform (BERR) as being the biggest change in the consumer protection frame work for 40 years.

 

If this is a revelation that has so far passed you by, don’t be surprised; there are many businesses out there that are only just waking up to the potential effect of these new regulations.

This may be due to the general way in which the regulations apply. Over the past few years a number of EU directives have been implemented into British Law that deal with specific areas or ways of trading. The CPUTR incorporate the Unfair Commercial Practices Directive, which was deliberately designed to introduce a general prohibition on unfair commercial practices across all business sectors. In other words, this was designed as a catchall directive to fill in the gaps left by the earlier specific directives and to ensure a general standard of fair trading across the EU.

Consequently, large numbers of prescriptive rules dealing with specific areas of trading are being abolished or amended. Obscure legislation, such as the Fraudulent Mediums Act 1951, the Mock Auctions Act 1961 and the Tourism (Sleeping Accommodation Price Display) Order 1977 are being swept away. Perhaps more relevant on a daily basis are the changes to important trading controls such as the Trade Descriptions Act 1968, the Fair Trading Act 1973 and the Consumer Credit Act 1974. There is unlikely to be a business in the UK that is not directly or indirectly affected by these changes.

So, what is coming in place of all these old regulations? The new regulations are principles-based and set out a number of broad rules, which provide three tiers of protection for consumers as follows:

1. They prohibit practices that are contrary to "professional diligence" – that is, the standard of behaviour, which a trader needs to exercise in order to demonstrate either "honest market practice" or "good faith" in their chosen field of activity

2. Secondly, misleading practices (actions and omissions) and aggressive practices (defined as harassment, coercion or undue influence) are outlawed

For both of these tiers, an offence is only committed if the practice in question can be shown to have had a negative effect: such as by materially distorting the behaviour of an average consumer or by causing them to take a transactional decision they would not otherwise have done. However:

3. There are also a number of specific practices (31 in total) that are considered sufficiently serious to be prohibited in all circumstances, regardless of whether they have had any effect on consumer behaviour

As indicated, the rules are (deliberately) broad and many businesses will undoubtedly struggle to come to terms with how the concepts affect their own behaviour. The regulations do not just relate to a purchasing decision by a consumer; they are designed to have an impact before, during and after a purchase. Indeed, they are designed to have effect even if there never is a purchase at all. As an example of just how wide this can be, the OFT have stated that the regulations even extend to cover the way in which unpaid debts are collected from consumers.

One key negative impact is that the regulations are not only subject to civil sanctions (being enforceable by the OFT, Trading Standards and similar bodies under part 8 of the Enterprise Act 2002) but also carry substantial criminal penalties, amounting in the most serious cases to unlimited fines and/or two years in prison. There are "due diligence" defences available in most cases but a trader who fails to give proper consideration to the requirements of "professional diligence" risks being guilty of "reckless" engagement in a practice that contravenes the regulations.

BERR have stated that the majority of businesses that deal fairly and honestly with their customers will not have to change their existing behaviour but will benefit because they will no longer have to face unfair competition from those who use underhand tactics. The OFT is also on record saying that it is not going to be interested in technical breaches of the regulations that do not have an adverse effect on consumer behaviour (though don't forget those 31 specific practices).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Fighting-Fit
typo (again)

Fight the injustice's of life with joy in your heart and abandon bitterness as it will destroy YOUR soul. Just at the foot, of a very steep learning curve. ;)

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Thanks for that FF, makes the CPUTR easier to digest :)

"To love unconditionally is the greatest gift, laughter is a close second" .To give your time to help others after being helped here is the best way to show your appreciation to your fellow CAG members.

 

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts. All my knowledge has been gained here, for which I'm very grateful. I'm a Journalist, not a law professional.

 

If you do PM, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private ;)

BB 13 - DCAs/banks and solicitors 0.

 

I get a fresh start to get on with learning to live with severe disabilities when they could have had something if they'd been understanding...

 

<--- If you feel I've helped, please twinkle my star :)

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http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn132/Fighting-Fit/img003.jpg

 

I recieved a CCA yesterday and it appears to be a true copy. Will any one be able to tell me 100%. I had trouble using photobucket, but have put up a link. The DCA stated I have 7 days to propose re-payment arrangements.

Edited by Fighting-Fit

Fight the injustice's of life with joy in your heart and abandon bitterness as it will destroy YOUR soul. Just at the foot, of a very steep learning curve. ;)

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I am on holiday as of tomorrow for 2 weeks and am thinking of sending this as a response.

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: − Account/Reference Number xxxxxxxx

 

With reference to the above agreement, thank you for sending me a copy of this credit agreement.

 

I understand that we are now in negotiation of the above account as you have now proved you own the debt. My disposable income is very small and I propose to pay you £50 per month. My family have suggested that if you can reduce the debt to 50% they will consider borrowing me the funds for a FULL and FINAL settlement.

I am now on holiday until the 25th July and await your response on my return.

I enclose a cheque for the first payment in good faith.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

Some feedback would be great.

I have not got the plague, just a CCA :lol:

Fight the injustice's of life with joy in your heart and abandon bitterness as it will destroy YOUR soul. Just at the foot, of a very steep learning curve. ;)

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If you're happy with that, do it. But make sure you get it in writing before paying them the F + F ;)

"To love unconditionally is the greatest gift, laughter is a close second" .To give your time to help others after being helped here is the best way to show your appreciation to your fellow CAG members.

 

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts. All my knowledge has been gained here, for which I'm very grateful. I'm a Journalist, not a law professional.

 

If you do PM, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private ;)

BB 13 - DCAs/banks and solicitors 0.

 

I get a fresh start to get on with learning to live with severe disabilities when they could have had something if they'd been understanding...

 

<--- If you feel I've helped, please twinkle my star :)

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