Blair, Oliver & Scott (HBOS) v Helmetfire

[Helmetfire]

I am going to be sending CCA requests for two accounts to Blair, Oliver & Scott..

..which address should I send them to?

 

 

...the P.O. Box 66, Rosyth, Fife one or another?..

 

 

..I had read on other posts here that they can be difficult

and do not want to start off by wasting money sending recorded letters with postal order

to an address where they will not sign for it.

 

TIA

[maroondevo52]

Hi, Helmetfire.

 

Found this.............

 

The address they had registerd with the Information Commissioners Office as the address on their license to process data was ..........The Mound, Edinburgh, which is of ourse the registerd Office of the Halifax Bank of Scotland,...

So I wrote to them and told them they were committing an offence by using the registered address of the HBOS and using their computer system.

 

I told them as the HBOS had all the info on their computers about their customers ......Blair Oliver and Scott because they were in the same building were able to access the computers of the BOS dead easy ( with the HBOS's permission. of course and help.)

 

Blair Olver & Scott didn't have to have their own Computer system to store info etc etc they used the HBOS 's.

 

If they had had to operate from their registered office ( as they should have done by law.) and register that address with the Information Commissioners Office because that was their registerd Offices address with Companies House.They would have had to buy their own computer system have it installed etc etc & would have cost them a load of money .....

so what what the crafty B*******s have done they have just moved their registerd office address to another part of the HBOS and just changed the address on the registers with Companies House and the Information Commissioners Office register changed, hasn't cost them a penny they can still access the HBOS system with ease.

 

Now they correctly registered with the Information Commissioners Office

 

 

 

Name & Registered Office:

BLAIR, OLIVER AND SCOTT LIMITED

ARROL HOUSE, VIKING WAY

ROSYTH EUROPARC

ROSYTH

KY11 2UT

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[Pinky69]

It seems that they don't sign for things at that PO Box address. I would send CCA requests to the original creditor on the grounds their agents seem to be unavailable. I got a letter from them which had no address - the only way I knew the address was from the back of the envelope. I had a complaint to make- so I sent it to Andy Hornby, the Chief Executive of the Bank of Scotland and asked him to pass it on to their Complaints Department. The fact that their agents don't receive mail at that address tells us that mainstream banks are just as dirty in their dealings as DCAs.

[B3rty]

I have sent stuff to the PO box address and its received and signed for...job done!

[maroondevo52]

Blair, Oliver and Scott. (BOS) are the in house DCA'S.(I think)

[Dorabell]

blair,oliver&scott ltd

Arrol house viking way

Rosyth Europarc

k112UT they sign but dont reply, im still waiting since 7th feb

[Helmetfire]

Hello everbody, it had all gone very quiet after I sent CCA requests to BOS about two credit card accounts on 10/3/08. So, on 1/5/08 I sent them an official complaint "put up, or shut up" letter to get them going.

 

...and it has, on 28/5/08 got a letter from HBOS in response to my complaint in which they explained that:

 

 

 

 

In order to satisfy our obligations under section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act, we are only obliged to supply the following:

 

The application form which you signed when taking out the account, this inlcudes the credit agreement in an abridged form on the reverse. This forms the credit agreement referred to under the act and the contract binding both parties.

 

Validation of the debt-statements of the account showing actual transactional information together with payments and any additional interest applied comprise the infomation as actual accounting (if you understood that you are a better person than me!) The statements have been sent to you each month (no, they haven't) I have requested for the past 6 years statements to be sent under separate cover (and they did, nearly gave the postie a hernia).

 

Copy of the current terms and conditions of the account which when taking in conjunction with the abridged terms and conditions contained on the application form completes our obligations and constitutes a fully executed agreement. You received a copy of the terms and conditions when opening the account and I have requested a copy to be sent under separate cover.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Okay....so I have recieved the so called agreement today...it is possibly the worst photo-copy I have ever seen of an application form, I would not even be able to tell you if the prescribed terms were on it because the only bits on it that I can just about read are the bits that I filled in with my lovely handwriting!

 

I don't think it's even worth trying to post it for you to look at because if I remember correctly the agreement is supposed to be legible...so it falls at the first hurdle. I have yet to receive any kind of T & C's , I don't have the original ones.

 

Any advice on what I should do now, this is just for one account, I am presuming that if they turn up the other one it will be just as bad:confused:

 

Just before the postie dropped this through my letter box I had sent off an email to Consumer Direct about Blair, Oliver & Scott as they have sent me several nasty "Final Notice" threat of court action letters in the past week.

 

Any Advice as to my next move would be appreciated. Cheers

Edited June 10, 2008 by Helmetfire
typos

[42man]

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true LEGIBLE copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.

 

You have sent me a totally illegible document which does NOT comply with the request...

 

Consumer Credit Regulations 1983 (SI1983/1557)

 

2 Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

 

(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily

distinguishable from the .

(2) The wording of any Form prescribed by these Regulations shall be reproduced in copies of unexecuted or executed

agreements or in Notices of Cancellation Rights sent [by an appropriate method] under section 64(1)(b) or (2) of the Act

without any alteration or addition, except that--

(a) the creditor or owner may enter the name and address of the debtor or hirer in any Cancellation Form prescribed

by these Regulations; and

(b) every Form shall be completed in accordance with any footnote.

(3) Any such footnote shall not be treated as part of any Form prescribed by these Regulations and may be reproduced

in addition to any such Form.

(4) Where any such footnote requires any words to be omitted, those words shall be omitted or deleted.

 

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true LEGIBLE copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore

 

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

 

If that request is not satisfied after a further 30 calendar days your client commits a summary criminal offence.

 

These limits have expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

And

 

(b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

[Helmetfire]

Thank you

 

Does anybody know how likely BOS are to take this to court?

[Fred Bassett]

Helmetfire,

 

I'm having a similar battle with Blair Oliver Scott and Halifax and they keep sending me snottygrams too, but all of them only ever say 'may', 'might' etc. I've had various silly responses from Halifax.

 

My own personal feeling is that if they had a watertight case, i.e. an enforceable agreement, they would take you to court. In my case they would surely have done it by now but they haven't. All they can do is threaten, harass and bully because they know that if you defend it they will lose. That's only my opinion though so please don't hang your hat on it.

 

Good luck, I will watch your thread with interest.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

[creditcardmug]

After what you have said about the agreement, and after they read the letter above provided by 42man, i think they would be very stupid to proceed to court with this IMHO.

[Helmetfire]

Helmetfire,

 

I'm having a similar battle with Blair Oliver Scott and Halifax and they keep sending me snottygrams too, but all of them only ever say 'may', 'might' etc. I've had various silly responses from Halifax.

 

My own personal feeling is that if they had a watertight case, i.e. an enforceable agreement, they would take you to court. In my case they would surely have done it by now but they haven't. All they can do is threaten, harass and bully because they know that if you defend it they will lose. That's only my opinion though so please don't hang your hat on it.

 

Good luck, I will watch your thread with interest.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

They don't seem able to decide with me, on 27th May they sent me a letter saying they "will take court action to seek a judgement against you"....and then on 2nd June they "may take action to seek a judgement against you".

 

I know at least one person on here has beaten them, I suppose I am just trying to bolster my confidence to continue the fight....as I have two accounts with them it could take some time:rolleyes:

[Pinky69]

I agree that they would take you to court if they thought they had anything that was enforceable. I got rid of the BOS by sending a complaint to their Chief Executive after they started harassing me when they failed to produce an agreement. I said I was sending it to him because I didn't know the address of their complaints deprtment. He replied he would reply to me by the end of March and I haven't heard a thing from them since.

[Helmetfire]

I agree that they would take you to court if they thought they had anything that was enforceable. I got rid of the BOS by sending a complaint to their Chief Executive after they started harassing me when they failed to produce an agreement. I said I was sending it to him because I didn't know the address of their complaints deprtment. He replied he would reply to me by the end of March and I haven't heard a thing from them since.

Nice one

[Fred Bassett]

Nice one

 

 

I'm just in the process of concocting a very strong snottygram of my own that will highlight their incredible stupidy and inconsistency. Well that's the plan but these things take some time to perfect. Once it's done I'll post a copy on my own thread and stick a link to it on here. It might well ring a few bells.

 

Regards to all.

 

Fred

[reallymadwoman]

So far as I am aware, and I do have rather more experience of Blair, Oliver and Scott than I would have liked, the worst that will happen is your account(s) will be passed to another agency, who will eventually run away with their tails between their legs when you point out that the account is in dispute.

 

If you haven't already sent it, head your letter 'Complaint' to start the clock ticking for a possible complaint to the FOS if the harassment keeps up.

[Helmetfire]

So far as I am aware, and I do have rather more experience of Blair, Oliver and Scott than I would have liked, the worst that will happen is your account(s) will be passed to another agency, who will eventually run away with their tails between their legs when you point out that the account is in dispute.

 

If you haven't already sent it, head your letter 'Complaint' to start the clock ticking for a possible complaint to the FOS if the harassment keeps up.

 

Thanks....I have stated in the letter that it is a compaint...and it is being sent to the person dealing with my initial formal complaint for not producing the CCA....so that should be okay shouldn't it?

 

I have already contacted Trading Standards about Blair, Oliver & Scott but the don't seem all that interested and has already suggested that I contact the FOS....I will wait to see what this letter produces and make them my next port of call I think.

[reallymadwoman]

In my experience, trading standards are a waste of time. Wait the necessary 8 weeks, or until you get a 'final response', whichever is first, and complain to the FOS. If the FOS formally investigate, it costs HBOS over £400.

 

If you want further information/help have a look at these threads:-

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/136654-complaining-financial-ombudsman-service.html

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/102011-blair-oliver-scott-bank.html

[Dorabell]

Hi Helmetfire i am having the same trouble with BOS/blair oliver and scott not produceing the documents, got now were with there complaints department, so i have complained to the FOS which they have reply to me saying they will be looking into it and its going to take some time due to all the complaints they are dealing, with so its going to cost them some money for all these investigations:lol: so do complain and good luck

[rosierose]

Thank you

 

Does anybody know how likely BOS are to take this to court?

 

Par for the course for HBOS is to chance a claim if the debt is over a certain amount - on the basis that most people out there crumble at the first sight of something form the court. I don't know exactly what the figure is, probably a few thousand.

 

The way it goes with them is this:

 

• You request agreement
  
• they fail to respond and start harassing you for payment
  
• You get the illegible copy and write inform them of their continuing default
  
• They continue to harass despite this
  
• 6 months after your last payment they send an ineffective default notice and a month later register the default with the CRA's
  
• Then they either pass/sell the debt to a DCA or issue a claim
  

It really is a pretty dysfunctional organisation at the best of times, so whether they actually have an enforceable agreement will most likely never have been mentioned to the person actually issuing the proceedings. The level of training given to those at the coal face is shambolic.

 

However, I wouldn't worry. With what you have, you can easily put together a defence which would stop any claim they might issue long before it got to a hearing.

 

If they issue a default I would press hard for compensation for the damage to your financial reputation. You never know, if enough people actually do this they may just start to take their statutory obligations seriously.

[Fred Bassett]

Well I just finished composing my snottygram and here it is: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/halifax-bank-bank-scotland/86614-fred-bassett-halifax.html#post1564576

 

I hope you don't think I'm trying to hijack your thread but it might be relevant and as I spend a fair bit of time looking for threads that are similar to mine this might save you a bit of time.

 

Regards to all.

 

Fred

[Helmetfire]

Par for the course for HBOS is to chance a claim if the debt is over a certain amount - on the basis that most people out there crumble at the first sight of something form the court. I don't know exactly what the figure is, probably a few thousand.

 

The way it goes with them is this:

 

• You request agreement
  
• they fail to respond and start harassing you for payment
  
• You get the illegible copy and write inform them of their continuing default
  
• They continue to harass despite this
  
• 6 months after your last payment they send an ineffective default notice and a month later register the default with the CRA's
  
• Then they either pass/sell the debt to a DCA or issue a claim
  

It really is a pretty dysfunctional organisation at the best of times, so whether they actually have an enforceable agreement will most likely never have been mentioned to the person actually issuing the proceedings. The level of training given to those at the coal face is shambolic.

 

However, I wouldn't worry. With what you have, you can easily put together a defence which would stop any claim they might issue long before it got to a hearing.

 

If they issue a default I would press hard for compensation for the damage to your financial reputation. You never know, if enough people actually do this they may just start to take their statutory obligations seriously.

I have been paying them for a number of years, the default has already fallen off of my credit records, but I assume that makes little or no difference?

 

After all, if they don't have the CCA it is not enforcable and it is not my place to prove that I don't owe them, it is theirs to prove that I do...if they were to come up with the goods then I would just have to continue paying them (at an amount I can afford), but I am sick and tired of being bullied by these people when I have been doing my best to pay back what I owe....the worm has turned.

[harrythehawk]

Hmmm I have just had the first letter from them after a lengthy campaign with Halifax, sent off my CCA straight away knowing full well what Halifax haven't got. As for the CEO, I complained about Halifax calling me when I had expressly asked for contact to be made in writing, pointed out all the laws on telecoms etc ....... wrote back and said it was perfectly acceptable on this account so HE would not stop his company calling !! So, my thoughts were proven correct the "we are above the law and god" attitude starts from the top !! After this letter I haven't written back and neither have they ....until this BOS shower got in touch ..... well at least I know what is going to happen or rather not happen !!

[42man]

IF they continue to call, after you have made the reasonable request to ask them to stop calling, then write down ALL the times and dates they call....then ask for their official complaints procedure....harrassment can be defined in many ways, and stress and upset affects all if us in different ways.... they are not phsycologists !!!

 

Read these threads...

 

Channel 4 - News - 'Bank harassment' claim settled

 

Cancer patient sues the Halifax for harassment after 762 calls about loan - Times Online

[harrythehawk]

I printed off these reports and attached them to my complaint letter ..... knowing Halifax as I am unfortunate enough to do, they are only interested in the law according to Halifax, I had a chat with Trading Standards about them, he was equally frustrated in that he had already asked them to stop calling me too ...... but they carried on ..... arrogant so and sos .... I 'ate 'em