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    • It's up to you if you want to pay £300 you don't owe plus whatever Unicorn Food Tax with no basis in law whatsoever that they will have made up in the Letter Before Claim.   We'd prefer you didn't.   But you have received a LBC so it's make your mind up time.   So please    - post up photos of the signage in the dark that you'll have taken two months ago (post 14)    - post up details of planning permission for their signs you'll have found out after you got onto the council, again two months ago (again post 14)    - also let us know if you agree with Brassnecked's excellent letter or if you'd like to tweak bits depending on what you've found out    - upload the LBC.  Some of them are appallingly drafted and invariably contain Unicorn Food Tax which is all useful extra ammo    - also, where are you living now (post 35) and are you comfortable with legal communications arriving at your parents'?   If you look in our PPC Successes thread at the top of the page, you will see 275 times these cheats have been seen off with their tails between their legs (and all had the same "well known legal companies" (ho! ho!) on hand).  In reality 275 times is a massive underestimate, in all 275 cases there was a "moment of victory" IYSWIM where the PPC were thrashed in court or discontinued a claim or were called off by a supermarket chain, etc., etc.  There will have been at least that number again where they were told to Foxtrot Oscar and then crawled back under their stone.  They are eminently beatable but logically when you're in legal dispute you have to put some graft in to beat the other party.
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Turnbull Rutherford**WON**


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I’m one of those people being sued by HFO Services Limited.

I had a Monument Account which was allegedly assigned by Barclaycard to HFO Capital

who then allegedly assigned it to HFO Services Limited

who, through Turnbull Rutherford have issued Proceedings for around £12500.

The Claim form was really poorly drafted,

it gave no details of the claim and simply said that the debt was assigned to HFO Capital

and that HFO Services acted on behalf of HFO Capital.

I filed a defence saying no cause of action,

after lots of correspondence

and an Order from the Court HFO filed an amended claim.

In which they claimed that the debt had been assigned to HFO Services.

I filed an amended defence.

The case has moved on to disclosure.

They are refusing,

well they are ignoring my letters, to disclose either the original agreement with Monument

or the full Assignment from Monument (Barclays) to HFO Capital.

They just don’t answer my letters.

I have obtained one Order that they supply the information, which they have not done

(although they have paid me my Litigant in Person costs for the application).

I have now applied for an Order that if they don’t comply within 7 days that the case is struck out.

I am waiting to hear from the court about that.

Apart from the fact that they don’t reply to my letters

what is interesting is that they claim that on the 2nd of January 2006 HFO Capital Limited assigned all its’ purchased debts to HFO Services Limited,

I have a copy of a document confirming that.

Incidentally the fact that HFO Capital is a Company not registered in the UK

does not prevent it issuing proceedings in the British Courts in its’ own name.

Where the complications arise is that it is possible to,

under CPR Part 25.13, obtain an Order for security for costs, there may also be taxation issues.

The case has a trial window for late June/early July for a fast track trial in the County Court.

I thought about getting Solicitors to represent me but its’ more fun doing it myself.

I’ll let you know what happens.

If anyone has any suggestions I’d be really grateful to hear them.

If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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Sounds like you know your stuff !!! well done, keep up the excellent work !!!

PLEASE NOTE - I am not a legal expert, what is stated is my own opinion and from what I have learnt from this forum and my own experiences.

 

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I'm sure that you're aware of this already, but notice of assignment has to be given by the assignor (not the assignee) in writing and given to you either by personal service or by a registered postal service (recorded delivery or special delivery). From Law of Property Act 1925 s136 and s196

 

Sorry, sometimes I'm not too clear. You mentioned about the actual document of assignment, but didn't say anything about having received any notice of assignment

Edited by nicklea
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I'm mid way through court proceedings with Turnbull Rutherford on the other side. They seem to constantly ignore court Orders and don't reply to my letters. I'm not worried about that as I'm dealing with it.

 

I just wanted to check whether other people had similar problems or whether they just don't like me...

If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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Are they acting on behalf of HFO?

HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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Yes - at the moment though I'm considering a wasted costs application against Turnbull Rutherford.

If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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I presume this is for a Charging Order or CCJ to follow through with a Charging Order as this is their speciality at the moment.

 

Can you give more details on the debt and whether you have done SAR and CCA etc.

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No - it's a fast track trial - they aren't complying with directions (haven't complied fully with disclosure etc) and are ignoring my letters. I've got an application for an unless order listed for next week. I thought that I'd try and find out out if other people have similar problems.

If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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On the Turnbull Rutherford front I've noticed that on two separate occasions they have back dated their letters e.g letter is dated one date yet franked by them a couple of weeks later and received a couple of days after that. On the rare occasions that they write to me I now keep the envelopes. They also served a costs schedule indicating that their expected costs for a two hour fast track trial were £6000...

 

Does any of this sound familiar to anybody else.

If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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  • 2 weeks later...

The latest - the case was listed for a fast track trial next week.

 

 

Our heroes had still not complied with disclosure

- they hadn't given me either the original agreement or copies of the original assignment.

My application for an unless order, that is an order that they comply with the previous order or are struck out was listed today.

An agent (someone from a local firm) turned up to represent them.

 

They started off by asking for the case to be re-allocated to the small claims track (its' over £11k - and can only be reallocated if I agreed)

- they said that as I'm poor and that I wouldn't be able to pay the costs if they won that it should be reallocated

(not quite in those precise words but it came very close).

The judge pointed out that it was my decision and as I said no their application was refused.

 

Turnbulls seem really worried about fast track trials

- In think it is because a Defendant has extra rights in fast and multi track cases

- as opposed to small claims track.

 

 

The other thing is TR is a firm full of "paralegals" - paralegals can represent in the SCT but NOT the Fast or Multi track

- so they have to use real Solicitors and Barristers - who cost more...

 

Moving on I explained that my heroes in addition to not replying to correspondence also ignored court orders.

The agent told the Judge that TR had still not got the original agreement

- I pointed out that they'd issued almost 18 mths ago

- and that they did not agree with disclosure of the original assignment

- I pointed out that not only did the cpr give me a right to see it cpr 31.14 that there was an Order that they'd broken already

- if they didn't like it they should have appealed it.

 

 

The Judge agreed.

 

They asked to adjourn to allow them more time to get the original agreement.

I opposed that but sort of lost that argument.

I suggested a Stay which was what I got.

An Order staying the proceedings for six months

- if in that time TR don't supply the agreement and the original assignment then the case will be struck out.

If they do comply then the case will be reinstated and listed for a case management conference (used to be called a PTR).

 

Costs - I asked for a direction that a wasted costs application be heard by the trial judge

- they offered to pay my LIP costs of £62.

 

 

I wimped out and took the money.

That said on the last hearing they were ordered to pay £50 costs

- not a fortune but better than a kick in the teeth.

If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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Good work fella. I'm still amazed that a judge will give them more time after such a delay - the bottom line is that, like in my case, there actually is no CCA to produce - just an application form.

 

After all, they decided to sue you, and I (like many, I'm sure) think it's totally unreasonable to give them more time - they should have their case in order when they issue the claim.

 

I bet a defendant wouldn't get the same leeway. A six months wait may be a pain, but I've every confidence you'll win.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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They got away with it because they claimed that it wasn't their fault - it was Monument who weren't replying to them.

 

I'm now (I know that I should have done it before) do an SAR to Monument.

 

What is important about my experience is the pressure it puts them under - they are spending quite a bit of money on my case that they won't ever get back.

I made an application for an Order - they instructed a Barrister - they lost the application - I got my order - so they paid my costs AND the Barristers' fee

They made an application for an order to reallocate to the small claims track - they paid a court fee (I think its' £75) and instructed a local agent (who they have to pay) and lost

I made an application for an unless order - they had to pay their agent and my costs.

 

If everybody plays it by the book - you ask them to do something - disclosure or whatever - they don't do it - apply for an order and for costs - lets start hitting them where it hurts - in the pocket

If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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  • 8 months later...

Any updates IGNM?

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Yes - sorry for being away for so long.

 

They failed to supply either the original terms and conditions AND the Original assignment. I got an Order that the proceedings were stayed until the documents were supplied. The order went on to say that if the documents were not supplied within 6 months the claim was automatically struck out.

 

They did not comply and the claim was struck out in January of this year.

 

So a bit of a result - they also paid me, albeit at LIP rates, around £70 in costs

If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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Good news and well done. Another one up these muppets.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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Great news and well done.

 

The only point i would make, and mainly for others reading (as yours is won already) is in post 11

 

"They got away with it because they claimed that it wasn't their fault - it was Monument who weren't replying to them".

 

Since HFO were the claimant, they should have been in possession of all the documents they were to rely on BEFORE issuing the claim, otherwise they were at all times in beach of the CPR, as they had "no legal cause for action"

Please note i have no legal training any advice i give comes from my own experience and from what i have learned on this site

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Great news and well done.

 

The only point i would make, and mainly for others reading (as yours is won already) is in post 11

 

"They got away with it because they claimed that it wasn't their fault - it was Monument who weren't replying to them".

 

Since HFO were the claimant, they should have been in possession of all the documents they were to rely on BEFORE issuing the claim, otherwise they were at all times in beach of the CPR, as they had "no legal cause for action"

 

That is very true - I argued that but the District Judge wouldn't wear it - that was why I originally tried to strike them out for non compliance but the DJ insisted on a six month stay. Although I did of course get my costs at every hearing

If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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  • 3 weeks later...

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Great news. :D

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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i agree with this and i think everyone with the HFO problen aught to make the start from here i intend this monday to begin my case as after 52 calls since the start of this month i think its time MR RUTHERFORD paid for his dog licence

" What is important about my experience is the pressure it puts them under - they are spending quite a bit of money on my case that they won't ever get back.

I made an application for an Order - they instructed a Barrister - they lost the application - I got my order - so they paid my costs AND the Barristers' fee

They made an application for an order to reallocate to the small claims track - they paid a court fee (I think its' £75) and instructed a local agent (who they have to pay) and lost

I made an application for an unless order - they had to pay their agent and my costs.

 

If everybody plays it by the book - you ask them to do something - disclosure or whatever - they don't do it - apply for an order and for costs - lets start hitting them where it hurts - in the Pocket"

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

 

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by patrickq1 are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional

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