HFO: do I have to pay?

[labradoodle]

Hi

I am new to this forum and am looking for advice,Compared to some dept mine may not seem a lot, the worry and harassment is still the same. I am getting constant calls from HFO for a debt that they say my son owes. i will try to make it brief. Three years ago my son got two mobile phones from network 3 one for him one for me. Unfortunately the service was atrocious could not send or receive call as 70% of time no signal complained to network 3 and shop where contract was taken out on several occasions, ended up returning phones. (It was my first and last mobile as I was disheartened by the experience) due to the trouble it all caused, Network three kept demanding monies for a service we were not receiving three to four letters a week eventually we settled by phone on a charge as a final payment which was paid by card (begrudgingly), we never heard from network 3 again.

Three years later I am now getting constant calls from HFO saying they were sold a debt by 3 and we owe to date £243.52 .

i have requested them to send me an invoice from 3 stating I owe this dept and have asked why 3 didn't send an invoice in the last three years if we owed this amount?

They said they can not discuss 3 and I cannot speak to 3 as i no longer have a contract with them, if I do not pay they will take me to court and the charges will increase and my house could be under threat, I keep telling them it was my son who took the contract out and we settled with 3, plus the phones did not work in the first place, I am sure 3 should have something to answer for?? As it was over three years ago and nothing has been heard from 3 we no longer have any paperwork.

Today I received a letter from their solicitorsTurnbull Rutherford saying My son has 14 days to pay ( he no longer lives at home as the phone in question was for me I feel responsible) or they will sue for for £243.52 together with court costs, solicitors cost, and accrued interest.

I no it is not a large amount owing, it is the principal can people just say you owe them money??

Ouote: "When we get a County Court Judgement against you, we will seek to enforce this against your income assets and property. You should advice from your solicitor if you are in any doubt as tothe seriousness of your situation."

I am finding this very worrying as I have always paid my bills and have never been in debt in my life. I am of the old school save and buy or do without.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

[KALLEY66]

Hi Lab

 

Unfortunately I an unable to advise on the legalities side of things, but I am going through exact same with HFO for an alleged 3G debt.

 

I have been told all the same as you have, threats and all the lies. So you are not alone on this.

 

I am sure someone will be along to advise you, but I hope you can take some comfort in the fact you not alone and you will get help on here.

 

Keep smiling as it only takes a smile to make a dark day bright.

 

Kal

[KALLEY66]

Send them this but DO NOT sign it, only print name at bottom, only send by Postal Order DO NOT send cheques

 

[your address]

 

 

 

[their address]

 

 

[DATE]

 

 

 

 

Data Protection Act 1998

Subject Access Request

 

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx (or multiple numbers if more than one account)

 

 

Please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my banking history with your organisation. Alternatively, a complete set of statements for that period will be acceptable.

 

Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my banking business with you.

 

If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply. Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties against me, then I shall be reclaiming them, and also reclaiming the enclosed £10 Data Protection Act subject access request fee.

 

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

I would be happy to collect the Data from my local branch.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

[signature]

 

 

[name]

[spamheed]

Hi

I am new to this forum and am looking for advice,Compared to some dept mine may not seem a lot, the worry and harassment is still the same. I am getting constant calls from HFO for a debt that they say my son owes. i will try to make it brief. Three years ago my son got two mobile phones from network 3 one for him one for me. Unfortunately the service was atrocious could not send or receive call as 70% of time no signal complained to network 3 and shop where contract was taken out on several occasions, ended up returning phones. (It was my first and last mobile as I was disheartened by the experience) due to the trouble it all caused, Network three kept demanding monies for a service we were not receiving three to four letters a week eventually we settled by phone on a charge as a final payment which was paid by card (begrudgingly), we never heard from network 3 again. Did you receive anything in writing in support of this settlement?

Three years later I am now getting constant calls from HFO saying they were sold a debt by 3 and we owe to date £243.52 .

i have requested them to send me an invoice from 3 stating I owe this dept and have asked why 3 didn't send an invoice in the last three years if we owed this amount?

They said they can not discuss 3 and I cannot speak to 3 as i no longer have a contract with them, Complete Rubbish, if you owe Three money, then how would you be expected to settle with them? They are worried that they wont get their commission if you deal directly with Three if I do not pay they will take me to court and the charges will increase and my house could be under threat, Again, utter twaddle, I keep telling them it was my son who took the contract out and we settled with 3, plus the phones did not work in the first place, I am sure 3 should have something to answer for?? As it was over three years ago and nothing has been heard from 3 we no longer have any paperwork.

Today I received a letter from their solicitorsTurnbull Rutherford saying My son has 14 days to pay ( he no longer lives at home as the phone in question was for me I feel responsible) or they will sue for for £243.52 together with court costs, solicitors cost, and accrued interest.

I no it is not a large amount owing, it is the principal can people just say you owe them money??

Ouote: "When we get a County Court Judgement against you, we will seek to enforce this against your income assets and property. You should advice from your solicitor if you are in any doubt as tothe seriousness of your situation."

I am finding this very worrying as I have always paid my bills and have never been in debt in my life. I am of the old school save and buy or do without.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

 

What you have received is a standard threatening letter from a Debt Collector, if you do not instantly pay them, they will pass it on to their "solicitors" who is really just the next desk along and keep trying to scare you into paying them something. Don't pay them at all

 

If the phones were taken out in your sons name, then they can make no demands of you whatsoever, I would complain to Trading Standards as they are clearly asking you to settle a debt that is not yours, also making threats against a debtor is against the OFT guidelines and could be construed as harrassment.

 

 

You can either send them a "prove it" letter, they are in the same situation of me walking up to you in the street and telling you that "you owe me £xxx - pay me"

 

Complain to Trading Standards that you are being harrassed for a debt which is not yours

 

Do not speak to these "people on the telephone, they tell lies and threaten, insist that all communications are made in writing, retain copies of all communication and if you write to them ensure you send it recorded and obtain a prrof of delivery.

 

If you believe that the debt is genuine, take it up with Three, ignore the DCA completely and if possible obtain written confirmation from Three that the debt has been settled

 

but complain to TS asap

[nicklea]

Hi lab,

 

Can I ask some questions first?

 

Hi

I am getting constant calls from HFO for a debt that they say my son owes.

 

Can I ask, was your name on the contract or did you act as guarantor or is the contract just in your son's name?

 

eventually we settled by phone on a charge as a final payment which was paid by card (begrudgingly),

 

Did you get this in writing at all?

 

Three years later I am now getting constant calls from HFO saying they were sold a debt by 3 and we owe to date £243.52 .

i have requested them to send me an invoice from 3 stating I owe this dept and have asked why 3 didn't send an invoice in the last three years if we owed this amount?

 

Are they phoning to speak to you or are they asking for your son?

 

 

Ok,

 

The first thing to remember is that anybody can come up to you and ask you to pay them some money. Whether you should or not is another matter. If I came up to you in the street and said "I'm from your mobile company give me £100" would you do it? I hope not!

 

The first thing that they must do is to prove that they own the debt. If you send this letter to the debt collection agency:-

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Account no:

You have contacted me regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself.

 

I would point out that I have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to (insert company name).

 

I am familiar with the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

 

I would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.

 

Furthermore ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.

 

I would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my liability for the debt in question.

 

I await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to the trading standards department and consider informing the OFT of your actions.

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

 

(Your Name) Print do not sign

 

 

 

The letter that kalley posted should be sent to three along with payment of £10. This will get you all the information that Three have on your account to see what has happened.

 

Don't worry about threats of court, they will try anything to get you to pay.

 

They need to prove the debt exists first - they can't do anything without that.

[spamheed]

If you are disputing the debt as not being yours, then you shouldn't use the SAR letter, if it's not your debt, then they won't have any information of value as mobile phones are not covered by the CCA and it would be a waste of £10

 

If you are going to contact them at all, it should be to ask them to prove it, using the letter above if they attempt to show documentary proof that the debt is yours, then perhaps send the SAR letter.

 

However, if the debt is not yours and they are calling you repeatedly and they take a threatening tone during these calls, Contact either Trading Standards or consumer direct and make a complaint.

[burnt_toast]

Wow.

 

We are in exactly the same boat!

 

Well... except for a couple of things...

 

My girlfriend had a 3 mobile a few years ago and had the same problem as you. It spent longer being repaired than it did working. She took them to court and it was settled out of court.

 

My g/f went bankrupt in 2006

 

Now, HFO are chasing her for the £53 whatever pence debt she owes!

 

And like you Lab, my g/f can no longer get her hands on the original cases documentation.

 

She recieved the same letter as you a couple of days back.

 

Can you believe it though, we have the guy tape recorded telling her that if she doesnt pay within 24 hours they will be sending a court appointed baliff!!! He also seems to think that Bankrupcy doesnt matter.

 

Lab, who's name is the debt in? How did you settle the debt when you paid it off? You might be able to get the bank to back you up.

 

Have they called you yet? Either get a tape recorder (and tell them you are taping the call) or refuse to speak to anyone other than in writing.

 

Send them a CCA request and a SAR request too. They cant deny you this and it will tell you what details they have about you.

 

Also, forgive me if Im wrong, but arent they breaking the law by threatening this guys home?

 

These guys are total barstards.

 

We're going to push for the maximum damages possible when we sue them.

[labradoodle]

Thank you for your replies, I find it reassuring that I am not alone.

My son lived with us when he took the contract out so it is my address and telephone number they have. I have told them I do not know where he is.

I did not get a receipt for final payment it was all done on phone, even if I had I may well of discarded it by now as after Three years you do not expect this to happen.

I wish I had taken 3 to court as the phone never worked, we did pay monthly payments we only disputed the end charges because the service was bordering on being useless and all complaints fell on deaf ears and hours hanging on phone trying to get through to complain.

I will do what has been recommended and see what develops.

I will keep you posted. Thank you

[I've got no money]

If your son took out the contract then you don't owe HFO anything. Providing you are not a party to a contract you cannot be said to owe anything under the contract.

[burnt_toast]

Lab - How did you pay over the phone?

 

The reason I ask is that it sounds like you used your credit card or debit card.

 

If you used either then you should be able to confirm this with the bank which would back up your defense.

 

I think HFO and all DCA's must get ligitimate debtors trying to find loopholes in consumer law, but it sounds like they have totally disconnected with people who really have no debt with them and that is totally unjustified.

 

As it stands, it sounds like they have an unenforcable debt against you.

 

I dont think HFO will ever stop unless their victims tear them apart in court and counter sue for lots of damages.

[I've got no money]

Burnt toast I think that you're right about HFO you have to beat them in court...and get costs against them BUT don't forget complain to Trading standards and the OFT - lets try to get their credit licence revoked

[burnt_toast]

I was looking at it from the point of view that if every £50 debt cost them £5000 in court the problem would be solved very rapidly!

 

But yeah, OFT and TS too

Edited June 10, 2008 by burnt_toast

[babybear39]

Subscribing...

[labradoodle]

Hi the so called dept is in my sons name ,like I said I feel responsable as the phone was for me, I was there when he paid the last payment on the phone and heard the transaction that pased between 3 and himself. HFO have said they can see the last payment paid but do not except this as the final one??

Low and behold just picked up my messages another call from Sonny at HFO.

We should all get together and sue, as I do not know how to go about doing so, it all seems most daunting to me, I suppose that is the reaction they love and that is how the get away with bully boy tactics as they work on people who do not know any better

I am off to get my postal order wish me luck!!

[babybear39]

You should get your son to request a copy of the final bill from 3.

[I've got no money]

To go back to my earlier point if the account is in your son's name then you aint liable. Tell HFO to go forth and multiply - you could point out that as you are not the account holder that its' a breach of the Data Protection Act for them to talk to you about it. Your son needs to complain to the Information Commissioner.