CCA, DCAs and the Unfair Commercial Practices Directive

[babybear39]

You're welcome SC.

 

As both this thread and 42man's compliment each other, I'd like to add the link:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/133653-consumer-credit-agreements-letter.html

[andrew1]

Following what Lookingforinfo asked though, this could still be important to find out about accounts which were bought by debt Purchasing companies such as Cabot and the likes pre May.

 

Cabot when asked to supply on a CCA request send the £1 back stating they are not obliged under the Act.. This will certainly shut them up once and for all etc, but there are a lot of old requests in the pipeline, so clarification from TS with regard to those assigned pre May would be extremely useful.

 

 

All things come to those who wait... tick tock Cabot !

 

 

Sarah

[babybear39]

Unfortunately Sarah, as my letter states, anything pre 26th May is dependent on which opinion TS take and how far they want to kick a** :-|

 

Mine wouldn't act without legal argument

 

But this changes things We can educate TS with the directive and the under secretary's opinion

[babybear39]

*bump*

[ODC]

It would seem now that TS cannot keep putting off taking action against these Rogue DCAs. What is their problem. Is it that they do not know their jobs in relation to DCAs. Do they still think of debt collectors as the man who calls at the door instead of the multi million pound industry that it has become. The DCAs seem to think they are above the law and can keep on flouting it. Has anyone ever heard of a DCA being prosecuted for failing to comply with a CCA request. No I didnt think so. Had anyone ever heard of a DCA being prosecuted for harrassment. A similar answer. The simple fact is that unless someone somewhere prosecutes these greedy barstewards for their dubious activities they will contimue to flout the laws of the land.

[ScarletPimpernel]

I'm sure there are many reasons why TS appear to be so reluctant to take action against DCAs, under-resourcing almost certainly being one.

 

In my view, one of the problems of TS enforcing is that because they belong to the County Council, their decisions as to whether or not to investigate or prosecute may be influenced by their political masters. Councils compete to bring companies to their areas - to bring jobs, and income. Many of these companies would see a stringent TS as a disincentive.

 

However, I suspect that the biggest difficulty is simply that non-compliant DCAs are just not 'cool' in TS world. Raiding the sellers of counterfeit goods and exposing the local supermarket for selling an out of date yoghurt not only make good local stories that convince the council tax payers that they're getting value, they're also relatively easily done. Pursuing debt collectors who insist (and many lie convincingly), that the debtor is always wrong, is less popular, and may well be harder to prove - especially if, as seems to be the case, TS staff grasp of the legislation isn't 100%.

 

Add to the mix the OFT, who don't appear to take much real interest in fitness to hold consumer credit licences, and guess which TS would rather do - down the local market in yellow jackets to bust the dodgy DVD sellers, or spend time with some of the deeply repellent personalities who inhabit the murky world of debt collection?

[babybear39]

"During the investigation of your complaint I obtained an opinion, specifically in relation to this point, from a leading authority of Consumer Credit. This leading authority provides training to both the Trade and Trading Standards. The opinion given did not regard a DCA to be a "Creditor" for purposes of sections 77 and 78.

 

I also contacted the LACORS (Local Authorities Coordinators of Regulatory Services) Lead Officer for Credit. The Lead Officer's opnion stated that both LACORS and the OFT felt that a DCA would be regarded as the "Creditor" for sections 77 and 78. However, no official guidance had been issued and no legal argument was provided to support this." This was what made TS reluctant before...

 

"Since your complaint the Unfair Commercial Practices Directive has been implemented into UK legislation via the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations, which came into force on 26th May 2008. This has enabled the OFT to issue guidance to enforcement officers that provides a legal argument to support their view that DCA's are "Creditors" for the purposes of Sections 77 and 78 of the Consumer Credit Act." OFT can now offer legal argument to TS...

 

The rules have changed and if enough people make a fuss about TS NOT implementing them, ie. complain to their MP, Local Authority Ombudsman, OFT etc. we should see prosecutions soon.

[Strand08]

subbing!

[burnt_toast]

Hi BB, my g/f was been harassed by her DCA and they have threatened court appointed baliffs and havent listened to her regarding her bankrupcy since the original debt.

 

Does your post mean that any nasty tricks played before 26th May 2006 cant/wont be acted upon but any after that time will? Or does it depend on when you made the complaint?

[babybear39]

Depends on the Trading Standards department but those reluctant to do anything pre 26th May re non compliance of CCA requests now have the backing of the OFT.

 

Is the debt being chased pre bankruptcy burnt_toast?

[ODC]

Hi BB, my g/f was been harassed by her DCA and they have threatened court appointed baliffs and havent listened to her regarding her bankrupcy since the original debt.

 

Does your post mean that any nasty tricks played before 26th May 2006 cant/wont be acted upon but any after that time will? Or does it depend on when you made the complaint?

 

Depends on the Trading Standards department but those reluctant to do anything pre 26th May re non compliance of CCA requests now have the backing of the OFT.

 

Is the debt being chased pre bankruptcy burnt_toast?

Burnt toast you have the idiots on tape making an illegal threat. Report their sorry asses to TS and the OFT

[burnt_toast]

LOL

 

No BB, its being chased even though she went bankrupt. The DCA (HFO) say bankrupcy doesnt matter/count (lol) and we've got them taped saying that too. Should we reply and let them know that nugget of info? Or should we expect their employees to have noted this?

 

ODC fully intend to. Trying not to get tied up in knots with all we need to do!

 

Looking to countersue for a barrage of unwanted, at times threatening and totally unlawful harassment.

 

What do you think the chances are?

[babybear39]

BT, if the bankruptcy was after the debt then it's included in it. Tell your GF to give the DCA the bankruptcy details and the contact details of her bankruptcy pratitioner. If they then persist, get her to contact the official receiver's office that dealt with it and they'll sort it for her.

[Rhia]

I have got to know a local TS person very well and a lot of the time it is money they are also short of to pursue cases. If they have a risky case re a CCA with little legal precedent (although that should change now) they won't waste their limited budget chasing it at all.

I agree we should start educating the reluctant ones and the letter from TS is a godsend.

[Fighting-Fit]

Hi Babybear, thank's for posting this link on my thread. I have a long way to go before, (if at all) my CCA request goes into default. Six working days, no response. If after the 12+2 and then the 30 calendar days, the fight starts here. Your thread will form the foundation for many a fight-back.

[babybear39]

Hi Babybear, thank's for posting this link on my thread. I have a long way to go before, (if at all) my CCA request goes into default. Six working days, no response. If after the 12+2 and then the 30 calendar days, the fight starts here. Your thread will form the foundation for many a fight-back.

 

This is something I feel very strongly about and intend to fight along with you all to get TS to do their jobs regardless of funding. They have loads of options such as centralising prosecutions to cut costs.

 

I got royally s****ed last year because this legislation wasn't in place and had no option but to go for bankruptcy.

 

There's also more legislation in the pipeline, namely section 5 of the Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Act 2007, 2007 CHAPTER 15, which is STILL under consultation with the Department of Justice. But that's for another day when it's finally implemented into UK legislation.

[JonCris]

Because the directive wasn't in place at the time they committed the offence in my case LFI...

 

It only applies to offences commited after 26th May 2008.

 

So what you do is send another CCA request to the DCA now. This of course means if they don't comply this time it will be post 26th May 2008 & all bets should be off

[babybear39]

So what you do is send another CCA request to the DCA now. This of course means if they don't comply this time it will be post 26th May 2008 & all bets should be off

 

I went bankrupt in November last year.

[Hopeful1]

So what you do is send another CCA request to the DCA now. This of course means if they don't comply this time it will be post 26th May 2008 & all bets should be off

 

That's exactly the game i shall be playing with Apex and now Cabot.

 

Can't wait ;)

[Jimmer100]

babybear, thankyou for adding this.

 

The clock is ticking on my CCA to Thames Credit and I will take full advantage of this new legislation. I will of course be posting my progress and I'm sure drawing on the wealth of knowledge available here.

 

Thanks again, your passionate stance on this matter is evident and I am sure your hard work will benefit many a CAG user.

[babybear39]

That's exactly the game i shall be playing with Apex and now Cabot.

 

Can't wait ;)

 

Good for you Hopeful1 and may you get sucess *hugs*, keep fighting girl

 

babybear, thankyou for adding this.

 

The clock is ticking on my CCA to Thames Credit and I will take full advantage of this new legislation. I will of course be posting my progress and I'm sure drawing on the wealth of knowledge available here.

 

Thanks again, your passionate stance on this matter is evident and I am sure your hard work will benefit many a CAG user.

 

Having been where a lot of new members to CAG are has taught me that we HAVE to take a stand and use the legislation and resources available. Call into question everything and anything...After all, that's what the despicable DCAs do

 

If TS won't act now then EVERY law in this country should be brought into question and everyone in the position to call on the new directive should push TS into action

 

If they won't act then we WILL question them via their own Local Authority Ombudsman, MPs, OFT, the media etc...

[Strand08]

Thanks again, your passionate stance on this matter is evident and I am sure your hard work will benefit many a CAG user.

So say all of us!

[andrew1]

Good for you Hopeful1 and may you get sucess *hugs*, keep fighting girl

 

 

 

Having been where a lot of new members to CAG are has taught me that we HAVE to take a stand and use the legislation and resources available. Call into question everything and anything...After all, that's what the despicable DCAs do

 

If TS won't act now then EVERY law in this country should be brought into question and everyone in the position to call on the new directive should push TS into action

 

If they won't act then we WILL question them via their own Local Authority Ombudsman, MPs, OFT, the media etc...

 

the Cabot Fan Club wrote to Mr Lunn, the Director of Thames Credit last year warning him that unless he and his staff changed his ways then the full force of the tactics of the Fan Club, and as many CAG and other forum users we could muster, as used against Cabot would be reigned upon them and he wouldn't know what hit him - just as Cabot felt, staff lost their jobs because of us when we exposed the way they operated, people lost promotion and Cabot lost a considerable amount of money as a result of what we have done, are continuing to do and will continue to do so long as they carry on with their practices. Not to mention the phenominal legal costs they ran up trying to prosecute people and hoodwink courts into believing they were right - not so was it Ken? Thames Credit look as if they are heading the same way, time we gave them a little reminder - Anyone with a Thames Credit account begin by sending out your CCA Requests, your harassment letters to stop telephone calls, query everything that comes from them and get them to put to proof what they are asking you for -

 

Good luck everyone, lets turn up the heat....

 

 

Sarah

[smithy73]

Hi BB39,

 

I have read the response you posted from TS on numerous occasions. But excuse my ignorance can you please explain the meaning of their response and also of what benifit it will have for us. i.e. how will this new legislation benifit CAG members?

Sorry for being a bit thick but I am a wee bit confused!!!

 

Kind regards,

 

Smithy73

[babybear39]

Hiya Smithy

 

No worries.

 

What the new directive means is that any DCA chasing an alledged debt got lumbered with the rights of the original creditor, whether they own the debt or not, with regard to compliance with CCA requests from 26th May 2008

 

The OFT can now give guidance to enforcement officers (TS) with the backing of legal opinion that DCAs DO have the SAME responsibilities as the OC

 

Basically, if they don't comply with the timescales, they can and SHOULD be prosecuted

Edited June 13, 2008 by babybear39
forgot something as usual