Who has had Managed Loans?

[lateralus]

pete, was hoping someone else would jump in here - my personal opinion is that because you've signed the settlement letter on the claim - i think the interest is up the swanee. hope someone else has a better take on it.

 

but, on to the loan - i'm just going to put a couple of things up here which i've posted before - but you might just be able to glean something from them which could help you now -

check out tigs wording on her letter and why she felt the man.loan was a direct result of the charges on the account -

Husband v HSBC - Paid (1 2 3)

Tigs33

 

and the other is bong's explanation to me about the relation between the charges and the managed loan interest - start with post 100 for a dozen posts or so -

Bong v HSBC *Contractual Interest & 13yr claim**WON!!!**(1 Viewing) [/url] ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page)

 

hope this helps a little, pete

[freakyleaky]

Lat is right about the interest. You have signed the letter now so you can't claim for interest on the claim.

 

Good luck with the claim on the loan.

[petedoyle]

thanks v much to you both. yes i realised that i cant claim for the interest on charges, not to worry. but i DO want to get them on this 'managed loan'....heres the crux of what i said on my MCOL form...

 

i was forced into taking a managed loan,

which incorporated £3455.60 worth of unfair

charges. it has also incorpoartes £1257.32

of interest charged on this managed loan.

HARRASSMENT ? Based on the numerous

telephone calls from your outbound sales

team chasing payment of my initial managed

loan for over 5 months. Battering me into

submission into taking out an increased

managed loan.MIS-SELLING of financial

services to me. The Managed Loan was NOT the

best plan of action for me in this

circumstance and has left me much worse off

financially to the tune of over 6k. I feel

HSBC and its staff have hoodwinked me and

forced me into a situation where I am a LOT

worse off. I feel as a bank you have not

operated with customers interests in mind

and have conducted in such a manner that

resorts to bully tactics and making more

money for yourselves.

 

do you think this was ok to say what i have said? i have recived letter back from DG saying they intend to defend this claim.

 

also i spoke to MCOL today who told me to email them to get the stay removed as it wasnt for 'reclaiming bank charges' as such (he-he it kinda is though) and they would then proceed with my claim in the normal way - thats got to be a good thing right?

 

i was just about to send the courts and DG a letter to get the stay removed, but it seems like i have done it myself (how easy was that!)

 

be keen to hear your comments/feedback on what i said, im gonna read through the other links now

[petedoyle]

also meant to say, i applied for PPI claim recently with HSBC and got offered £734.50 - wasnt expecting this much, i think it was for the managed loan that was the pre-decessor of this one.

[jowalshy]

Way to go Pete. Well done.

[petedoyle]

phew! thanks - re assuring to know... i also have sent the following letter to HSBC and copied in DG solicitors.

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

I have filed a MCOL against HSBC which you’re already aware and in receipt of for the above claim number.

I am now sending to you a colour photocopy of the statements relating to the periods of the claim which relates to the Managed Loan that I was hoodwinked into taking out with HSBC, which has left me in a worse off situation. I was completely mis-sold and misinformed during every step of taking out this ‘managed loan’

It is my conclusion that HSBC have abused their duty of care to me as a customer in order to make extra profit. They have done so in a number of ways. Namely:

• HARRASSMENT – Based on the numerous telephone calls from your outbound sales team chasing payment of my existing managed loan/ for over 6 months. Battering me into submission.
  
• NEGLIGENT MISREPRESENTATION - By not giving me the full terms of the agreement, therefore not allowing me a 2 week cooling off period to now (subject to the Distance Selling of Financial Services Act and _____).
  
• MIS-SELLING of financial services to me. The Managed Loan was NOT the best plan of action for me in this circumstance and has left me much worse off financially to the tune of over 8k.
  
• IMPROPER EXECUTION – by not supply full terms and conditions and not receiving a signed copy that states that I agree to them. Thereby not allowing me a 2 week ‘cooling off’ period
  

I also have no qualms in going to the press and my local MP regarding the Managed Loan which could bring the practice of providing a Managed Loan into question. I am confident that all complaints will be upheld, which could greatly affect HSBC’s fitness to hold a credit license.

As this is not a request to deal with Unfair Charges and is a completely separate topic entirely I expect a full response on how to bring a speedy end to this case.

I hope you find this information useful in relation to processing and speeding up my claim.

Yours faithfully,

 

 

Peter D S Doyle

[gemspan]

Hi

 

If its any consolation I have a similar problem to you. HSBC sold me a managed loan which includes consolidation of a business account overdraft, charges, PPI and repayment of a business loan. The managed loan was not explained to me and the agreement has 2 APRs on it. I have sent it off to DG solicitors with a query, sent a SAR to HSBC and I have received a letter from another debt collector referring to this managed loan. In effect, DG have passed it on once they have received my letter disputing the loan.

 

Now, my understanding would be that, if HSBC have reimbursed you for your charges then this amount should be wiped from the managed loan because you are not due it. If it stays with the managed loan you are effectively still paying the charges plus interest. That is an absolute no-no. It might be worthwhile including that in your letter to them because then the managed loan will be unenforceable and they will have to negotiate with you on a lower consolidation loan.

 

I hope this makes sense.

 

ie you have £3500 charges on your bank account which is reimbursed. However, you are still paying £3500 on a managed loan. So, when HSBC reimburse the £3500 in charges they should automatically reduce your loan by £3500!!!! Is that right?

 

Kind regards

Gemspan

[petedoyle]

hi gem, that is exactly right, and exactly my point, i propabely havent expressed this correctly, as grammarm and use of english was not my strongpoint in my accademic years...too distracted by girls, music and booze (probably!) but your 100% spot on with what youve said, and thats exactly what im trying to get DG /HSBC to realise...

 

i still have a few questions though....

 

If (WHEN!) i get the loan amount reduced to £3,500, what happens to the amount of money i have paid so far of this (and previous) managed loan(s) and the fact i have been paying interest each month for the last 24 months (or thereabouts) on what i shouldnt have been paying for anyway. im confused on how i should word and present this to DG/HSBC.

 

and more importantly - how the numbers stack up? how do i correctly present this in laymans terms. (yes ive confused myself even!)

 

FYI......

# managed loan no. 2 taken out in November 2005 for £7130.

# payign back £115 every month for last 23 months (never missed a payment)

# approx £65.00 pm is going in interest.

# original claim to HSBC (last year) won £3455 in charges claim

# most of this amount was incporated into my *ahem* 'managed loan'...(ml also incorpoated O/D and remiander of small bus.loan)

 

thanks

 

Pete

[gemspan]

Right then, here goes:

 

If your original loan was £7130 and £3455 of that was charges (did that include interest at 8%?) then the remainder of the loan would be £3675. Less what you have paid to date which is £2645. This leaves £1030 to pay.

 

Now, you could argue that this loan is in fact unenforceable because £3455 of it was charges which should not have been included in the loan. THerefore, had the charges not been included there is every possibility that you could have afforded to repay the sum of £3675 without taking out a managed loan which incurs higher interest than your small business loan and your overdraft facility.

 

The bank therefore put you in a position where you had no alternative but to take the managed loan but they have calculated the figure to include charges which have been refunded. Therefore the loan should only be £3675 and you have already paid £2645. This means you should only need a loan of £1030 which could probably be argued would have been paid off had you not been made to take out the managed loan.

 

Does that make sense?

 

Gemspan

[petedoyle]

gem, your a legend. many MANY thanks. ironically when i first sent my letter to HSBC i pretty much argued exactly what you just said...and kinda lost my way a bit with it all. now im back and with vengence, (read that as fired up and 3rd kid on the way) so could do with not having this loan over my head. i did politiely ask them to completely forget the loan as according to my calculations i didnt owne them a penny, but again, your 100% correct. thankyou. and thanks for making it so clear to me too.

 

also big up thanks to the rest of you too for all your help and replies today.

 

i know i have one more question lurking in my head, but that can wait till tommorow....as i wan to just run past you all what the letter from DG said...as i feel this will be my next step in this claim.

 

at least today i have had the stay lifted and comfirmation from MCOL that the claim will now persue in the normal way. we are getting back on track

[petedoyle]

pps - in answer to your question gemspan......

If your original loan was £7130 and £3455 of that was charges (did that include interest at 8%?)

NO - is the simple answer, i didnt claim the 8% interest on either of my claims (personal and business), does this change things for me? im sure someone else posted earlier saying because they had already refunded me the charges i cant go back again and claim the interest on the £3455.

 

Pd

[gemspan]

Hi Pete

 

You may not be able to go back and claim the 8% interest on the charges you have claimed but I would think you could claim the interest on the £3455 in the managed loan. That would mean it would be £3455 plus the rate of interest you are being charged in the managed loan. This interest will be substantially higher than the 8% interest you could have charged them.

 

I woud suggest that you write to DG and ask them for a breakdown of the managed loan (this is what I have done and they sent me statements today relating to my personal account and said there were no charges on the managed loan so they didnt bother to send me details!!). By that I mean the amounts that made up the loan ie overdraft (which I am presuming included the charges) and small business loan. You will then be given a total amount including interest. Ask for a settlement figure as of today's date and then take off the £3455 plus the interest and then you have your figure. You then argue that the amount that was left on your overdraft after the charges were deducted was manageable and so was your managed loan. The only reason they gave you this managed loan was because you had xxx amount of overdraft, which of course included the charges.

 

Does this make sense?

 

Gemspan

[don leocornay]

Hi

Sorry to hi-jack your thread. My claim is similar to yours except my managed loan was subject to a credit card balance.

 

Here's my thread:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/other-institutions/92344-don-leocornays-gonna-kick.html

 

Would be grateful for any input.

 

Thanks

 

Don

[petedoyle]

thanks gem, yes it does makes sense. im going to write to DG today!

 

also i got the letter back from DG with a 'copy of the cleints defence which we have filed at the court today 13/09/07'

 

its a 2 page document, quite simply it states:

 

1. the defendant accepts that in or around november 2005 it provided the claimant with a managed loan facitly for the purpouses of consolidating a previous loan account overdrawn balance on a separate current account.

 

2. the defendant will however aver (what does this word mean?) that by agreeign to provdie that loan facilty the claimant entered into the agreement of his own free will. it is therefore denied that the claimant was harrassed or that the loan facilty was mis-sold.

 

3. the defendant will aslo aver that any interest and charges applied to this loan facility, or indeed any earlier loans or current accounts, were rightyl due pursuant to the terms and conditions appliocable to those accounts.

 

4. futher or alternatively the claimant is estopped in any event from bringing any claim in relation to those earlier accounts once those were repaid following the debt consolidation.

 

statement of truth etc

signed by blah blah blah....

 

where does this leave me and should i just say what you have written and highlight those very valid points you mentioned?

 

thanx again

 

Pete

[petedoyle]

ok guys here goes my letter, which i must confess im stuck on... i have onyl got so far cuttign and pasting bits form various threads. this is the letter i want to send to DG ASAP!

 

if anyone can help me add anythign else (kinda legal jargon) or help me re-word certain paragraphs, as i dont wan to send till its bang on, i dotn want to mug myself off! (already done that by paying this stupid loan in the first place)

 

Dear DG solicitors,

Further to you letter dated blah blah

I must write to inform you that I have written to MCOL on 1st October 2007 and asked them to continue my claim and remove the stay as this claim is not a case where im trying to reclaim bank charges. They have written back to me to confirm that they will be removing this stay and the claim shall continue.

I have already claimed back my bank charges (do I tell them this?) This is a claim relating to my managed loan.

I would like to set down some important facts for you regarding my case.

FACTS

My original loan was £7130 and £3455.60 of that was unfair charges (which did not include interest at 8%?) then the remainder of the loan is £3674.40.

Less what I have paid to date which is £2621.54 (23months x £113.98)

This would leave £1052.86 to pay.

 

I believe this loan to be unenforceable because £3455.60 of it was charges which should not have been included in the loan.

Therefore, had the charges not been included there is every possibility that I could have afforded to repay the sum of £3674.40 without taking out a managed loan, which incurs much higher interest than my small business loan and my overdraft facility.

 

The bank therefore put me in a position where I had no alternative as I was battered into submission to take the managed loan (but I was also harassed with several telephone calls during a particular trying time for me as my father was terminally ill and my wife had just given birth) but they have calculated the figure to include charges which have now been refunded. Therefore the loan should only be £3674.40 and I have already paid £2621.54 to date.

This means I should only need a loan of £1052.86 which would have been paid off by now had I not been forced to take out the managed loan.

As HSBC have reimbursed me for my charges then this amount should be wiped from the managed loan because I am not due it.

If it stays with the managed loan I am effectively still paying the charges plus interest. This is an absolute no-no.

I would like to add that because then the managed loan will be unenforceable HSBC will have to negotiate with me on a lower consolidation loan.

I am claiming the interest on the £3455.60 in the managed loan.

That would mean it would be £3455.60 plus the rate of interest I am being charged in the managed loan.

I formulate this by £3455.60 + % (interest) = £??????

 

ADDITIONAL

I would like you to provide me a breakdown of the managed loan, by this I mean the amounts that made up the loan: i.e. overdraft (which I am included the charges) and small business loan.

I would also like to Ask for a settlement figure as of today's date and then take off the £3455.60 plus the interest to give you this new figure.

I formulate this by £3455.60 + 8 % interest = £276.44 = £3732.04

£7130 minus £3732.04 = £3397.96 minus £2621.54 = £776.42 left to pay.

You then argue that the amount that was left on your overdraft after the charges were deducted was manageable and so was your managed loan. The only reason they gave you this managed loan was because you had xxx amount of overdraft, which of course included the charges.

 

lots of love

me xx

[petedoyle]

Anyone got anythng they can add to help me with my figures and letter?

[gemspan]

Dear DG solicitors,

 

Further to you letter dated blah blah

 

I must write to inform you that I wrote to MCOL on 1st October 2007 asking them to continue my claim and remove the stay. They have confirmed to me that they will be removing the stay as this claim does not relate directly to bank charges.

The background to this claim is as follows:

HSBC refunded me £xxxxx in unlawful bank charges on (insert date).

However, as my managed loan was made up of an overdraft and small business loan, I am claiming the said amount of bank charges be removed from the managed loan. If the amount of £xxxxx remains payable, this means I will effectively be paying the charges, plus interest, which have already been refunded to me albeit "as a gesture of goodwill".

THe original managed loan was for a figure of £xxxxx. This included £xxxxx of unlawful charges. I have paid £xxxxx to the managed loan over the last 23 months. Therefore, my calculations reveal that, by removing the amoung of £xxx refunded to me by way of unlawful charges from the managed loan AND the amount paid to date towards the loan in question, I am due HSBC £xxxxx.

 

Taking into consideration that the original amount included monies refunded to me, I believe that this loan is unenforceable without a court order. This is the reason for my claim.

 

I am however willing to negotiate with HSBC without the need for court intervention but, to date, there has been no offer of settlement from HSBC. I now have no alternative but to take the matter to court to have a judge rule on this case.

 

 

Now, short and sweet that is the answer. The above will give you some idea of what to write but basically you just want to say that the amount paid to you in unlawful charges should be wiped from the managed loan. The fact that is was included in the first place makes the loan unenforceable without a court order.

 

I wouldnt go into harrassment etc., I dont think that htey will let this go to court.

 

Kind regards

Gemspan

[gemspan]

 

also i got the letter back from DG with a 'copy of the cleints defence which we have filed at the court today 13/09/07'

 

its a 2 page document, quite simply it states:

 

1. the defendant accepts that in or around november 2005 it provided the claimant with a managed loan facitly for the purpouses of consolidating a previous loan account overdrawn balance on a separate current account.

 

Yes, but this included the monies you have been refunded so this should be deducted from the total loan amount.

2. the defendant will however aver (what does this word mean?) that by agreeign to provdie that loan facilty the claimant entered into the agreement of his own free will. it is therefore denied that the claimant was harrassed or that the loan facilty was mis-sold.

 

Basically they are just saying that you were not put under duress to take out the loan and you did so of your own free will. Yes, that is true but you have since been refunded bank charges so the loan would have been substantially lower and perhaps you might not even have needed to take out this loan. Aver basically means put forward their argument or "state".

3. the defendant will aslo aver that any interest and charges applied to this loan facility, or indeed any earlier loans or current accounts, were rightyl due pursuant to the terms and conditions appliocable to those accounts.

 

That is what they believe but they have actually refunded the charges to you so the loan should not include the charges as they have been refunded, albeit as a "gesture of good will".

4. futher or alternatively the claimant is estopped in any event from bringing any claim in relation to those earlier accounts once those were repaid following the debt consolidation.

 

This is absolute nonsense!! Yes, the debt was paid off but it included bank charges which have since been refunded and therefore should be removed from the total balance of the managed loan.

 

 

Their defence is very weak. They have refunded the charges so, at the same time, should have removed the amount from the managed loan.

 

Just state your points. Dont get into arguments. Write everything down logically and that way they cant trip you up. Keep to the points and they dont have a leg to stand on. If they try to change the goalposts just stick to the relevant points - those being they refunded the money so it should be removed from the balance of the managed loan and the loan should be recalculated or wiped out!!!

 

Kind regards

Gemspan

[gemspan]

Hi

Sorry to hi-jack your thread. My claim is similar to yours except my managed loan was subject to a credit card balance.

 

Here's my thread:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/other-institutions/92344-don-leocornays-gonna-kick.html

 

Would be grateful for any input.

 

Thanks

 

Don

 

Basically the facts are the same. If they have refunded the charges they should remove that amount from the managed loan or consolidation loan.

 

Have a look at what I have advised Pete.

 

Kind regards

Gemspan

[petedoyle]

gemspan, you surpass youself! many many thanks again, sending letter today will keep you posted. as soon as i get the darn thing sorted ill be making yet another contribution to this awesome site and forum, which to date has got me back over £10k collectively between me and the mrs, so thnaks to everyone else too.

 

Pete

[gemspan]

Will keep my fingers and toes cross that everything goes well for you. I cant see how it cant. I bet the extra 10k was a nice little nestegg, being that you are now expecting your third child!!!! LOL

 

Please keep me posted as to how this goes. I really dont think they have a leg to stand on but at the end of the day it is up to the judge isnt it?

 

Take care.

Gemspan

[petedoyle]

sorry gem one last question, i mean to say as this has already gone to court, and DG itnend to 'defend' the claim (as per their letter) the letter im senidng to them (that you helped me edit-cheers) i do send it to DG and nto the courts right? p

[gemspan]

Hi

 

Is the documen you have their response to the court? If so, I am really not sure what to do. By sending DG the letter you are really not achieving anything. My suggestion would be to phone the court and ask them what the next procedure is. It may be that you have to use the points in their defence and answer as I have down above so that you are answering their questions so to speak.

 

First point would be contact the court and see what they advise. Sorry cant be of much help in this point.

 

Gemspan

[loz]

I am following this thread with interest... have already had charges refunded twice from HSBC but also have a loan which they pushed me into 2 years ago. At the start of the loan the charges totalled £687-00.

 

I was wondering how legit it is to ask for this money back "again", but thinking about it they have not necessarily refunded charges, more like made a "good will payment"... Let's do some sums!

 

Loz

[gemspan]

Hi Loz

 

Well to be honest they havent really made a goodwill payment because you are still having to pay the charges. What they should have done is made the goodwill payment and then reduced the loan by the amount of the goodwill payment.

 

They may not have said they are refunding the charges but any court in the country is not going to look at the amount you claimed and the amount you received and recognise that it is in fact the charges you are claiming back. Therefore, I think it is a legitimate claim to expect that the same amount be reduced from the loan or you are still paying for the charges AND with interest on top!!!!

 

Hope this makes sense

 

Gemspan