Dealing with UK debt whilst living abroad

[ellisdon]

Hi,

 

To cut a long story short we have emigrated to a new country (non EU) and still owe some UK companies money (credit cards, bank, small loan). After contacting payplan for advice and using their cover letter template and income / expenditure model to send to our creditors. None of the creditors have agreed to stop interest on monies owed and most have not agreed to a token payment. We have continued to be in contact with our creditors and done the usual of offering to pay what we can afford, all they have done is either employ debt collectors or keep sending demands.

 

My current employment doesn't allow for the minimum payments to be met and after having serious family health issues my wife can not work and our eldest child has become disabled and needs expensive medical assistance which my health insurance only covers 80%.

 

Can anyone offer any advice to what I can do, I've even thought about bankruptcy! but don't want to loose my home.

 

Please help

[miss muppet]

Hi, in the absence of someone more experienced, I'm sure they will be up soon - have you thought of CCA requests to your creditors to see if they have the legal right to collect on these debts? The template letter and loads of advice is on the site as to how to do this - you send £1 postal order with your request, don't sign the letter and wait for them to comply.If they don't this may make the debt unenforceable. You have done the honourable thing so far, if they won't pay ball, thats their problem, you can only pay what you can afford.

[ellisdon]

Thanks for the reply miss muppet, I will certainly send off CCA but I am being chased by DCA's both UK and Canadian assume I send this to them & What currency should be sent to a non UK DCA?

[phatram]

bump

[ellisdon]

Can anyone help, now desperate

[miss muppet]

Oh dear, thanks for the click E. sorry no-one has been along to help you with this. I think I would start with the UK DCA's - if these are chasing the same alleged debts as the non-Eu and perhaps send a copy of the CCA request to the latter. Don't forget to send by recorded delivery or whatever you call it where you are and don't sign, print or use the digital signature. You can also send the harassment letter to anyone who is hassling you by phone. Once they get the CCA requests, the clock starts ticking i.e. 12 + 2 days (allowing for delivery) and 30 calendar days for them not to comply by not sending you the correct documentation and your request puts the accounts into dispute which should give you some respite. There is an excellent thread/threads if you do "search" Consumer Credit Agreements and also Zubo's Consumer Credit Agreements resources/workshop, read all these and don't panic, you will almost always find someone who is in the same position as you and find the suitable letter.

[nicklea]

Hi,

 

Can I ask how long ago you moved abroad and when you last paid any of these debts or acknowledged them in writing?

 

Also, do you have any plans to return to the UK in the next few years (or indeed ever)?

 

Also, have a read of these threads:-

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/147362-confused-overseas-where-do.html#post1554642

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/134786-we-safe-aic-australia.html#post1423061

Edited June 7, 2008 by nicklea
added threads

[ellisdon]

Hi Nicklea

 

Moved abroad Aug 2006, If email counts a few weeks ago otherwise three months ago we sent all creditors a token payment. Some refused to accept any payment other than the regular monthly payment.

 

We are permanent residents now and do not intend on returning to the UK other than an occasional visit to F&F.

 

HSBC have Blue Stone Law, US acting for them and they are currently their intermediary and have contacted us via email. Other creditor companies have been sending the usual letters.

 

My eldest daughter was attacked at school whilst we lived in the UK (one reason for moving) and has needed intensive Mental Health treatment for PTS and actual brain injury (we are currently putting together a claim). My wife has been unable to work as daughter spends 80% of time in Bed with both physical and mental pain. To this end our income has been reduced and we can not afford to pay the creditor what they want after we paid out for food and other necessities.

 

I really hope that we can get through the next few months without extra stress from these creditors.

 

Thanks for reading this,

 

Thomas

[nicklea]

Any agreement regulated under the Consumer Credit act is only enforceable in a Britsh court.

 

If you did not wish to or cannot pay (debt collection agencies can only ASK you to pay) then the creditor must first get a CCJ against you in the UK.

 

After this, it is technically possible that they could apply to the Canadian courts to get it enforced - however whther they would or not is another matter. Also, if they do try to take you to court then you have all the defences that anyone else has as well.

[ellisdon]

How do I know if a summons or CCJ has been sent / issued as the mail from the UK can take over a week to arrive if it makes it at all ?

 

Also if CCJ was issued by UK court and enforced here would my credit rating here be affected ?

 

Thanks for taking the time.

[summer30]

I'd do some full and final cheques for a small amount, its ok moving abroad but what if one day you want to come home.

 

I would state in the letter you have emigrated but dont say to where, send a cheque with full and final payment on the back for what you can afford to give them, say £100 and then sit back wait and see.

 

Some DCA's will follow you abroad if they find out where you live, but in all seriousness with the state of the economy as it is Id offer them something to get the debts closed.

 

Hope that helps .

[redcastle]

Just chanced upon this thread...As I understand the law, a creditor cannot enforce a judgment against you in a UK court if they are aware that you are now resident i.e. have a permanent and sole address outside of the UK. Neither can a bankruptcy action be brought against you.

However.....the EU has agreed a procedure known as an EPO -European Payment Order - which comes into force in January 2009 and can be used to enforce collection of a UK debt without the CCJ.

As I understand this law, if you wish to contest the debt, the hearing must take place at a court in the country where the debt was incurred.

[Godzone]

Just chanced upon this thread...As I understand the law, a creditor cannot enforce a judgment against you in a UK court if they are aware that you are now resident i.e. have a permanent and sole address outside of the UK. Neither can a bankruptcy action be brought against you.

However.....the EU has agreed a procedure known as an EPO -European Payment Order - which comes into force in January 2009 and can be used to enforce collection of a UK debt without the CCJ.

As I understand this law, if you wish to contest the debt, the hearing must take place at a court in the country where the debt was incurred.

 

Surely this doesnt apply to none EU countries does it?

[neilj1974]

Can anyone help, now desperate

 

How did you get on with the debt collection. I am in a similar position. I moved to the US from the uk in 2007 with a few outstanding debts. Including HSBC like yourself i also have bluestone law chasing me. Any advice or links would be greatly appreciated

[ellisdon]

HSBC were unable to provide the CCA info & Bluestone eventually gave up, its now with Wiggins a Canadian DCA who cannot supply any information and acts to their own mandate regardless of due process or permitted provincial practices.

 

From another forum I have found that the reciprocal agreement between UK & Canada only covers criminal and tax issues. Un secured credit doesnt fit into these areas and as such can not be processed through this treaty.

[neilj1974]

Thanks for the advice. I replied formerly to bluestone wit a letter requesting the cca and some further information. So far nothing has been forthcoming. When you say bluestone gave up, did they formerly reply to that effect or did they just past the debt along.

 

One thing i found on my credit file was an enquiry from bluestone which really bothered me. My fico scores here are 750, 757, 740 as i was miffed to find they were entitled to that, with the inquiry it indirectly knocked my score down 5 points. I am in two minds whether to go after them for it or just back off because of the debt

[macie]

Hi. My HSBC file is currently in the hands of Wiggins adjustments. Did you get anywhere with them. Did they mark you credit file?

[Bang!]

I left the UK while having a dispute with my bank.

 

Tonnes of DCA letters arrived at UK addresses, and loads of calls to the number I set up for them.

 

I checked last week by phoning the local Sheriff Court and there were no decrees against me checking back to 2007 (it was in Scotland) and the debts are probably now statute barred (although I am still looking for the paperwork to see the last DD to my credit card from the bank).

 

Many DCA letters went to relatives with the same name - so I think if you think they have found you - its a bit of a lottery really - and only holding your hands up gives the game away.

 

I would say the most important issue would be the location of the home you are worried about losing.

 

Which country is it in?

[macie]

I am living in Canada, and only have a home in Canada. HSBC have known where I have lived for quite a while as I was making payments to them. When the debt was reduced to around £500 andI stopped paying. The English debt is covered by the CCA and the DPA but the local collection lot seem to be very threatening as regards marking my local (Canadian) file with a UK debt.

[cerberusalert]

Have you considered contacting the two credit reference agencies in Canada, Equifax Canada Inc., and Trans Union of Canada, Inc, and asking them whether it is lawful to register a foreign debt on a Canadian credit file?

[Bang!]

As its in Canada, its unlikely that they even have a facility to check quickly if you are a home owner.

 

If its down to £500 and you are worried - it points to your income being pretty low, so have you checked what charges interest that has been added, and did you have any PPI (which I am sure someone will have mentioned already)?

[macie]

"Have you considered contacting the two credit reference agencies in Canada, Equifax Canada Inc., and Trans Union of Canada, Inc,"

 

Great idea. Why didn't i think of that? I contacted the provincial legal body and they were really woolly on the matter.

[macie]

Bang! " ...If its down to £500 and you are worried - it points to your income being pretty low, so have you checked what charges interest that has been added....."

 

I got the charges back, and no PPI added. As regards my income being low..... no, but, twice as much would always be nice. The problem is not with my ability to pay the £500 it's about the fact that I have been well and truly shafted by HSBC since 1999 and £500 would represent a small victory in a battle that I have been on the losing end of. I resent the fact that the £500 will be used to pay some bankers bonus. I don't like being a victim.

[Bang!]

My approach was to let them waste as much time as they wanted searching for me in the UK, as it made me feel quite pleased for their inconvenience, given my time they had wasted in declining to fix errors with my account (I had not owed anything, but errors and charges created a "debt").