disaplinary hearing monday 2nd june at 10am

[magic28]

hi ive just been told that when i need a reference it will come from head office and will only state my starting date and finishing date for the company..does that sound right?

thanks for everyone's comments

[Allwood]

They are confirming that you worked for them and that is all. So perhaps that will be OK.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

My reasoning is clear, it is wrong on such a serious issue to lie on applications and CV's. I donot condone lying.

 

A reference from the last employer is just a suggestion, at least on most of the ones I am filling in at the moment.

 

It is usually up to the applicant to provide details of references of their own choosing unless the potential employer states 'Can we approach your last employer for a reference?'

 

Some employers may prefer personal references anyway or even not bother at all.

 

I wouldn't be unduly worried about this but I agree that lying isn't a redeeming quality.

 

However, the truth has to be bent sometimes and a cv is a notorius document that contains such and employers know this.

 

Would somebody say they are excellent for early morning starts if the job required it but in reality were awful? No, but is that telling the truth?

 

It is the getting caught that is the problem.

 

If I were the OP I would try and wipe out that 15 years with Tesco from her employment history however difficult it may be.

Edited June 3, 2008 by Weird Al Yankovic

[Weird Al Yankovic]

hi ive just been told that when i need a reference it will come from head office and will only state my starting date and finishing date for the company..does that sound right?

thanks for everyone's comments

 

Yes, it's quite normal, a lot of firms do this.

[Allwood]

A reference from the last employer is just a suggestion, at least on most of the ones I am filling in at the moment.

 

It is usually up to the applicant to provide details of references of their own choosing unless the potential employer states 'Can we approach your last employer for a reference?'

 

Some employers may prefer personal references anyway or even not bother at all.

 

I wouldn't be unduly worried about this but I agree that lying isn't a redeeming quality.

 

 

However, the truth has to be bent sometimes and a cv is a notorius document that contains such and employers know this.

 

Would somebody say they are excellent for early morning starts if the job required it but in reality were awful? No, but is that telling the truth?

 

It is the getting caught that is the problem.

 

If I were the OP I would try and wipe out that 15 years with Tesco from her employment history however difficult it may be.

 

I agree with you totally, wiping out her years with Tesco is the best thing she can do now. I suggested that she did not put their name on an application form which would not be lying in a technical sense. But others had a different view and suggested that it would be lying.

 

[Rooster-UK]

Yes, it's quite normal, a lot of firms do this.

The Reason for this is that even for a serious breach, they do't want to take the risk of a reference being pulled apart, somewhere down the line, and resulting in a claim for libel because someone didn't cross a t or dot an i.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

I agree with you totally, wiping out her years with Tesco is the best thing she can do now. I suggested that she did not put their name on an application form which would not be lying in a technical sense. But others had a different view and suggested that it would be lying.

 

 

Well, I've yet to see a cv/application form that is 100% honest!

 

Most people inflate their attributes and even claim some they do not possess.

 

Ever watch The Apprentice!!??

 

Even convicted criminals can legally withhold prior transgressions! A two year stretch in prison thus becomes a two year period of 'living' abroad!!

[PI Guy]

I agree with you totally, wiping out her years with Tesco is the best thing she can do now. I suggested that she did not put their name on an application form which would not be lying in a technical sense. But others had a different view and suggested that it would be lying.

 

It is lying. Also most application forms have a section on convictions. Wonder what she'll put there.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

The Reason for this is that even for a serious breach, they do't want to take the risk of a reference being pulled apart, somewhere down the line, and resulting in a claim for libel because someone didn't cross a t or dot an i.

 

That's correct.

 

Royal Mail only provide start, end dates, position etc too.

 

An ex-employee has to ask a line manager for a personal reference, and hope they agree, as RM would not then be laible as it is a personal opinion.

 

And who is going to ask for a personal reference such as this unless they knew it would be good?

[Weird Al Yankovic]

It is lying. Also most application forms have a section on convictions. Wonder what she'll put there.

 

And some do not. Maybe she will apply for a job that doesn't ask this.

 

She is contrite, she admitted the transgression and is at a low ebb with a young family.

 

Why do you wish to crucify her?

 

Even some released murderers work you know!

[PI Guy]

I'm not trying to crucify her. Just making a point.

[Allwood]

It is lying. Also most application forms have a section on convictions. Wonder what she'll put there.

 

she was not convicted of anything she was let off with a caution therefore no criminal record.

[PI Guy]

she was not convicted of anything she was let off with a caution therefore no criminal record.

She wasn't let off with a caution. A caution is an admission of guilt and will remain on her record.

[Rooster-UK]

She has done wrong. She KNOWS she did wrong. And now she's paying for it.

 

Just WHAT gives you the right to sit there pontificating and passing judgment on a human error?

Would you have us believe that you have never even had so much as an evil thought, in your life? That you have never done anything of which you are ashamed?

 

Think, long and hard before you answer that.

 

"Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone".

 

One thing she can be certain of and that is that God has forgiven her. And he is more important than you will ever aspire to be.

 

Rooster-UK

[PI Guy]

She has done wrong. She KNOWS she did wrong. And now she's paying for it.

 

Just WHAT gives you the right to sit there pontificating and passing judgment on a human error?

Would you have us believe that you have never even had so much as an evil thought, in your life? That you have never done anything of which you are ashamed?

 

Think, long and hard before you answer that.

 

"Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone".

 

One thing she can be certain of and that is that God has forgiven her. And he is more important than you will ever aspire to be.

 

Rooster-UK

I'm not passing judgement, I'm discussing various aspects of the case. Maybe you can save your remarks for someone who cares.

[Allwood]

PI Guy all your comments are negative why not let us have some thing that is useful some positivity would not go amiss, can you suggest how she can get further employment that she so badly needs just now.

[PI Guy]

PI Guy all your comments are negative why not let us have some thing that is useful some positivity would not go amiss, can you suggest how she can get further employment that she so badly needs just now.

Not all my posts, just think it's immoral to advice people to lie and cheat in order to get away with committing a crime. Just my opinion of course.

[Bigmac versus]

After reading this thread its pretty obvious you are full of remorse for your actions and you fully understand why you have been dismissed, personally I feel every one deserves a second chance and you are no different.

Be thankfull for what you do have in life and learn from this, i know its terrible for you just now but time will heal this.

Im sure everyone who has read this thread knows someone who has been in a similar position to you and have found alternative work.

 

The OP is clearly hurting just now and I would ask anyone who wont show any sympathy to her plight before posting to avoid posting at all.

 

May i suggest a way you could find out what the reference Tesco would give may be.

 

If you know someone who is self employed who you can confide in then ask them to contact tesco for a reference, at least this way you know if its going to be a problem in the future.

[Saffronflowers]

Bigmac - I thnk your idea reagarding the reference is extremely good. I thought long and hard about this last night (hence why I rarely go on CAG these days) and I think that is very important that firstly you forgive yourself.

 

Every single one of us has done something stupid in our lives, more often and not for most there are mitigating cirucmstances that cause these aborrations.

 

One of my greatest concerns is that I suspect rightly or wrongly that yours was due to financial pressure and this really needs to be addressed hence my advice to pop over to MSE to get advice regarding your finances as they are now. I am happy to look at your SOA if you want to PM it to me and I will go through it to see if there are bits that I can suggest. I do however think that it would be better on a forum where you can get loads of advice.

 

Regarding Tesco, I personally dont think that you can hide 15 years of employment, but I do think that if you concentrtate your job seeking efforts to employers that are unlikely to seek a referance then you will be successful. Use your feelings regarding your treatment to fuel your job search and prove to them that they cannot destroy you. I am pretty sure that if you use these emotions correctly you will prove this to be a postiive life changing event. I know it sounds a bit tree hugger but you are in control of your future, not your Tesco Referance.

 

SFx

[moonfairy]

I have been recruiting staff for 15 years. In my experience a reference is not worth the paper it is written on. Please, I urge you not to get so hung up and stressed about a reference. IT WILL NOT STOP YOU GETTING FUTURE EMPLOYMENT. When you are asked to give two references give one personal reference who you know will say that you are great, loyal and confirm that you are a good person. The second one you give as Tesco Head Office, LEGALLY they CAN NOT GIVE YOU A BAD REFERENCE ONLY REFUSE TO GIVE YOU A REFERENCE. If I was recruiting you I would not worry about a refusal I would reflect upon our interview and if I still believed that you where the right person for the job I would hire you anyway, put you on a 6 month probationary period and see how you go. If you didnt let me down in those 6 months I would make you permanant.

 

Stop focusing on how bad you have been treated, and I do agree you have been treated badly, but this sort of stuff can really screw you up and Tesco's just aint worth it. Accept was has happened, get your life back, get out there back into the workplace, employers are always looking for decent hard working staff.

 

Do not ignore what PI GUY is telling you. He really is not being nasty as people have suggested. He has been the only person to tell you honestly the worst case senario. I am sure like the rest of us the last thing he wanted to hear was how badly you have been treated, but he did try to give you the benefit of his experience, as we all have.

 

The worst thing you can do right now is tell a lie, or miss out stuff, no matter how desperate you are. Because unless you have the memory to be able to continue whatever story you give, you will trip yourself up somewhere, and if that happens to the one person giving you the break you deserve you will ruin things for yourself.

 

So be strong, be honest, hold your head high, apply for every job you can, tell them that you worked for Tesco for 15 years - this showes that you offer stability. They will not apply for a reference untill they have asked you if its ok. If they ask this of you then they are seriously thinking of hiring you. DO NOT GIVE THE GAME AWAY YET. WAIT - see what happens next (this is the hard bit) then only one of two things can happen, you will be starting with your new employer soon, or they will come back and say Tesco has refussed to give you a reference can you tell me why you think this might be. This is the ONLY time you can afford a little white lie - just sound shocked and say that you dont know why. Then as I said a new employer has the safety net of a probationery period, so they will use it, no problem there they would do anyway.

 

Hope all this make sence,

 

Good luck for the future and forget Tesco, shop locally and tell all your friends to do the same, there are more than one ways to skin a snake

[Allwood]

I have been recruiting staff for 15 years. In my experience a reference is not worth the paper it is written on. Please, I urge you not to get so hung up and stressed about a reference. IT WILL NOT STOP YOU GETTING FUTURE EMPLOYMENT. When you are asked to give two references give one personal reference who you know will say that you are great, loyal and confirm that you are a good person. The second one you give as Tesco Head Office, LEGALLY they CAN NOT GIVE YOU A BAD REFERENCE ONLY REFUSE TO GIVE YOU A REFERENCE. If I was recruiting you I would not worry about a refusal I would reflect upon our interview and if I still believed that you where the right person for the job I would hire you anyway, put you on a 6 month probationary period and see how you go. If you didnt let me down in those 6 months I would make you permanant.

 

Stop focusing on how bad you have been treated, and I do agree you have been treated badly, but this sort of stuff can really screw you up and Tesco's just aint worth it. Accept was has happened, get your life back, get out there back into the workplace, employers are always looking for decent hard working staff.

 

Do not ignore what PI GUY is telling you. He really is not being nasty as people have suggested. He has been the only person to tell you honestly the worst case senario. I am sure like the rest of us the last thing he wanted to hear was how badly you have been treated, but he did try to give you the benefit of his experience, as we all have.

 

The worst thing you can do right now is tell a lie, or miss out stuff, no matter how desperate you are. Because unless you have the memory to be able to continue whatever story you give, you will trip yourself up somewhere, and if that happens to the one person giving you the break you deserve you will ruin things for yourself.

 

So be strong, be honest, hold your head high, apply for every job you can, tell them that you worked for Tesco for 15 years - this showes that you offer stability. They will not apply for a reference untill they have asked you if its ok. If they ask this of you then they are seriously thinking of hiring you. DO NOT GIVE THE GAME AWAY YET. WAIT - see what happens next (this is the hard bit) then only one of two things can happen, you will be starting with your new employer soon, or they will come back and say Tesco has refussed to give you a reference can you tell me why you think this might be. This is the ONLY time you can afford a little white lie - just sound shocked and say that you dont know why. Then as I said a new employer has the safety net of a probationery period, so they will use it, no problem there they would do anyway.

 

Hope all this make sence,

 

Good luck for the future and forget Tesco, shop locally and tell all your friends to do the same, there are more than one ways to skin a snake

 

This is the kind of positive thing you need to keep hearing, I hadsimilar thing happened to me about reference albeit not for the same reason as you had, it was for taking my employer to Industrial Tribunal and lost. My employer was local government and they had a policy of using positive discrimination, you know the lefty labour one that Tony Blair used to lived in before he became PM. This lefty government would not give me a reference back in the last 90's. I tood up agency work and that gave me a lot of variety and a lots of experience with other organizations. If I knew then what I know now, I would have taken that lefty LG to task but it would have taken up a lot of my time and on reflection they are just not worth it at the end of the day.;-)

Edited June 4, 2008 by Allwood

[patdavies]

Even convicted criminals can legally withhold prior transgressions! A two year stretch in prison thus becomes a two year period of 'living' abroad!!

 

It's called the rehabilitation of Offenders Act.

 

A caution is not a criminal conviction; it need to be referred to in response to any future employment questions about prior convictions. Home Office advice here

 

 

Beware, any job that requires a CRB check is normally exempt the provisions of the ROHA and a caution will show up on a CRB disclosure - for ever.

[patdavies]

She wasn't let off with a caution. A caution is an admission of guilt and will remain on her record.

 

 

It will remain on the Police database for ever; it will show up on any CRB disclosure for ever; it is, however, not a criminal record as it is not a criminal conviction

[Allwood]

Just to clarify that no one was suggesting that lying is a good thing it was merely suggesting not to disclose her time with Tesco on an application form, is this a form of lying just by not admitted to something. No lies would have been told.

 

Also another good example of misleading is our wonderful government no one believes a word that comes out of MP's mouths. So look to our leaders for examples how to manipulate documents to suit a purpose also employing members of their family that has not worked for them.

Edited June 4, 2008 by Allwood

[patdavies]

It is lying. Also most application forms have a section on convictions. Wonder what she'll put there.

 

Nothing as regards this incident - she has no conviction.