I feel im being robbed by private parking firm, HELP!!

[bristolad]

Firstly HI. New to the forum and read a number of interesting posts but realy need some advice on my case.

 

My wife was issued a "Penalty Charge Notice" on 16 April by a Bristol parking enforcement agency called CHP Associates.

 

Now this was issued in a private car park.

 

My wife, my daughter and her disabled mother parked in amarked disabled bay, checked out the notices and saw nothing in relation to rules around disabled parking so went into the place (a museum) who own the car park to ask if they were allowed to park in the bays. They were told yes and to just display the badge which they did. When they came out the museum they had a big yellow notice stuck to the widscreen with the words Penalty Charge notice, Warning its an offence for any person etc etc.

Inside was the reason for the charge "No disabled clock displayed".. They wanted £50 for prompt payment or £75 within 21 days.

She was upset angry and went back into the museum who were also shocked and rang the company, they told them it wasnt up fopr discussion and had to be done in writing.

She appealed explaining the details, no reply so i wrote a sarcastic letter to them which i thought was rather good actually, finally today we have had a letter back stating appeal denied for the reason..

 

" 1 section 8 blue badge holders handbook states blue badges hold no validity on private land.

 

2/ blue badge handbook clearl;y states it is an offence not to display blue badge and clock.

 

Now this is just crazy, on one hand they say blue badge holds no validity on private land, then state its an offence not to display a clock..???

How can this be enforcable. My mother in laws understanding of the blue badge scheme is that you must display your clock on a time limited zone, there is no time limit in this car park, you can park 24 hours if you want as long as you pay, but disabled drivers should be free parking.

 

This seems to me like a trumped up charge to extort money and im fuming.

The letter states that i..

 

"Denial of appeal: In view of you correspondance we will allow a period of NOT LONGER than 14 DAYS from the date of this letter to make the lesser payment of £50.00. If payment is not recieved within this time period your case file will be passed to our Debt Recovery Management Unit. The registered keeper of the vehicle will then be liable under law for all monies outstanding + associated recovery costs. The decision of the adjudicator is final. No further correspondance will be entered into in relation to this case."

 

What do i do now, this just cannot be legal, they refuse to get into any further correspondance. Advice please cos im determined to fight this, my wife did nothing wrong.

 

By the way im the registered owner. The signs in the car park do not give details on parking for disabled people and i have photos which i sent them in my second letter to prove my point.

[Steve__M]

In the answer to your question "How can this be enforceable?" is - it can't.

 

Regardless of whether contractual parking penalties or charges can be enforced or not, you have not broken any of the written terms they have for their carpark.

 

It is likely that whether you ignore them or not you will get a stream of demands and debt collectors letters, all of which can be safely ignored. I would write to them and say-

 

"As indicated in my previous letter I dispute that I am liable for this charge. Your options are to cancel the charge or to issue court proceedings. I will not respond to any further letters from you.

 

Do not pass this on to a "debt collector" as I will simply ask them to refer back to you."

 

If you get a "debt collector" letter. Simply write saying "I dispute that I owe this money. Please refer back to your client" and by law they should go away.

 

Keep copies of all correspondence etc.

Don't waste your money on recorded delivery or first class etc.

[Steve__M]

PS.

 

 

"The registered keeper of the vehicle will then be liable under law for all monies outstanding + associated recovery costs. The decision of the adjudicator is final. No further correspondance will be entered into in relation to this case."

 

What do i do now, this just cannot be legal, they refuse to get into any further correspondance.

 

Again, you are right! It isn't legal. Why do you need peoples help - you know it's bogus

 

The registered keeper is liable under law to tell the parking company to get stuffed.

[bristolad]

Many thanks for that reply. as you say i know its not right but its just a case of being sure in myself what i do next.

 

Must say ive read of things like this happening to other people before but never thought it would happen to me, now it has it just seems like legalised robbery almost. If my wife had blocked someone in or not displayed the disabled badge whilst parking in a disabled bay then i could understand the issuing of the ticket, but this just strikes me as a total con and something that makes me realy angry. These people are robbing people and how many other victims have just paid up:mad:.

 

So to summarise my reply to them should be im not paying cos im not liable. Stop demanding money from as i will not rspond to any further letters and dont pass this on to debt collecting agencies as i will refer them back to you.

 

That should be interesting as they also appear to be the debt collectors themselves.

 

Couple of more questions, can they just turn up at your house and clamp your car? or do they have to write in advance warning you that they will be visiting?

Also if they do turn up can i involve the police and if so under what grounds, if they did clamp my car what could i do about that? can i remove it under these circumstances.

 

Cheers in advance.

[Sparklez30]

Well I'm certainly no expert but don't believe for a second that they can clamp your car when your not on their property - if it gets to debt collectors most dont make home visits even though they threaten to and if they do you can send them a letter to withdraw their right (its around this forum somewhere - if I find it I'll post up a link!)

 

I'm sure someone more knowledgable than me will turn up soon enough to assist

[lamma]

they called themselves "adjudicators" ?

and issued a 'Penalty Charge Notice' in a private car park ?

I smell the Fraud Act 2006 section 2..

 

you have scans or digital pictures of all their paperwork ? PM me.

 

making contact was a mistake - the appeals process is just a way of them getting their teeth into you.

 

you seem to be on the case though with you rput up or shut up message.

if they keep writing, which they very probably will, they will just deepen the attempted fraud - so let them.

[pin1onu]

Well I'm certainly no expert but don't believe for a second that they can clamp your car when your not on their property - if it gets to debt collectors most dont make home visits even though they threaten to and if they do you can send them a letter to withdraw their right (its around this forum somewhere - if I find it I'll post up a link!)

 

I'm sure someone more knowledgable than me will turn up soon enough to assist

You are absolutely right. They can no more turn and clamp your vehicle than you or I. The case law clearly states "if you park in defiance of a sign then you can expect to be clamped". They could only clamp if they were acting as court appointed bailiffs executing a warrant (usually for council issued PCN's).

 

Also if a car is displaying Disabled badges they are absolutely forbidden to clamp. This is clearly spelt out in PSI Regulations. If they were to do so you could make a formal complaint to the old bill and the Security Industry Authority. They would get in to the brown stuff over that one.

 

Bristolad, Welcome to the forums. This is a [problem].

 

Have a read of the Private Parking Charges guide in the stickies section. There are also some wonderful template letters in the stickies section which you can modify for replying to the shysters.

 

BTW Bristol is my patch. What museum was it? I'd be interested in exposing these shysters.

 

Recently there was a bit of publicity in the Evening Post over Aldi charging a Pensioner for overstaying in a car park. Might be worth a call to them and tell your story. Might make the musuem buck up its ideas.

 

Any questions post back. Don't pay them a penny.

[bristolad]

Hi lamma. Thats interesting never thought about fraud. I will try to scan there letter and the original ticket as that is all i have from them at present.

 

If i cant here is what the ticket says.

Parking charge notice.. Then the date of the offence and time and the name of the car park. It then has my car reg and make model.

 

Then there are a number of boxes the issuer can tick for the alledged offence, mine is ticked in the "other box" and then a description of the alledged offence which is "no disabled clock displayed".

 

It then says ive to pay a parking charge penalty of £75 within 21 days, however if paid within 14 days £50 will be excepted in full settlement of payment due.

It also goes onto to say my vehicle has been photographed at the time of ticket issue..

 

Surely i have some grounds under data protection act to request something is done with the photo???

[lamma]

don't forget the envelope the invoice was attached to your car with.

get all you got then send the PM when you have them. catch you on the flip flop.

[havinastella]

Pin,

 

I think the Museum tried to help

 

Jogs

[bristolad]

Hi pin1onu. Its the British commonwealth museum and believe it or not the evening post already did a piece on this ticket. My wife has now also written to the museum as they told her what to do and she still got a ticket despite following their instructions, thats what makes the whole thing even worse.

To be honest its not the money its the bloody principle that these people feel they can just extort money from people on false pretences.

We do not have the disabled badge it is my mother in laws who was with my wife and daughter visiting the museum on the day the ticket was issued, however because she was a passenger she was entitled to park in the disabled bays as long as she displayed the badge, which she did, just not the clock.

 

Arrgggggghhhh it makes me so angry.

[bristolad]

One more thing that may interest you. The envolope in which the ticket came was the common yellow plastic envolope which looks very official and Police like.

It says on there " Penalty charge notice. WARNING it is an offence for any person other than the driver to remove this notice"

 

What is the score with this?? having read the link by pin1onu this seems to have been illegal also or am i barking up the wrong tree.?

I will win this im determined not to give these robbing B*****ds a penny of my hard earned money.

[Zamzara]

One more thing that may interest you. The envolope in which the ticket came was the common yellow plastic envolope which looks very official and Police like.

It says on there " Penalty charge notice. WARNING it is an offence for any person other than the driver to remove this notice"

 

What is the score with this?? having read the link by pin1onu this seems to have been illegal also or am i barking up the wrong tree.?

I will win this im determined not to give these robbing B*****ds a penny of my hard earned money.

 

This is something that is clearly caught by the new Consumer Protection Regulations 2008. Report it to trading standards.

[pin1onu]

One more thing that may interest you. The envolope in which the ticket came was the common yellow plastic envolope which looks very official and Police like.

It says on there " Penalty charge notice. WARNING it is an offence for any person other than the driver to remove this notice"

 

What is the score with this?? having read the link by pin1onu this seems to have been illegal also or am i barking up the wrong tree.?

I will win this im determined not to give these robbing B*****ds a penny of my hard earned money.

Bristolad,

 

There are two avenues of thought on this thread. Essentially the ticket you were given is an invoice for damages for breach of an alleged parking contract. This is a civil matter that will be dealt with in the county court (small claims track) should these shysters want to try it on.

 

You can and will defend yourself on the grounds that the amount claimed is a penalty charge illegal under case law since early last century. Your other argument will be under the Unfair Terms in consumer contracts regulation.

 

You could also argue that the terms and conditions on the sign mention nothing about disabled parking. They cannot insist on a breach of contract if they have not made the t&cs clear in the first place. You cannot agree to terms or be made privy to an agreement without your knowledge or consent

 

On the grounds of reasonableness the driver did display the disabled badge. You might want to mention that musuem, their employing agent, authorised you to park like that as well.

 

I'd put the following points in a letter, tell them not to contact you again other to than to confirm the matter is closed or take you to court. You have a very strong case and I'm sure a Judge will take a very dim view of their actions. I think they will elect to drop the matter.

 

The other avenue on the thread is the criminal aspects of their conduct - including fraud as suggested by lamma. This would be a criminal complaint which you would need to make to the Police.

 

You could also make complaints to the OFT and Trading Standards about their conduct. I'd definitely suggest talking to the latter.

 

They have definitely breached, or are close to it, section 40.4 and possibly 40.2 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970.

 

If they persist in hassling you could take a private action against them using the Protection from Harassment Act.

Edited May 29, 2008 by pin1onu
spelling

[lamma]

remedy for trespass/tort lies with landowner. VERY unlikely the PPC contract is in the right shape to allow them to pursue. the ppc hs no right of action

unless they have exclusive occupation of the land and the right to

offer it up for parking.

[bristolad]

Cheers folks. This has been a great help. Im going to take time to compose a letter and plan to basicaly say that i dispute that i owe them any money. I stand by the letter previously sent to them explaining why i do not feel i owe them any money and as you say they must stop contacting me unless it is to inform me that they have dropped the case or are taking me to court. I know i will win as my wife did exactly as she was told by the museum who own the car park, also they have been incredibly dumb to say the least in their reasoning for upholding the appeal.

On one hand they say blue badges hold no validity on private land and on the other they quote the blue badge scheme again saying it is an offence not to display the time clock.

 

So it holds no validity but they are trying to extort money out of me under the scheme??? strange eh.

 

The fact there interpretation of the blue badge scheme is also wrong anyway gives them little chance of winning, so let them try it on i say, id love them to take me to court.

These people are litterally demanding money under false pretences surely.

[lamma]

they won't take you to court

[Al27]

There is no point contacting them. What do you expect them to do? Leave you alone? The opposite will happen - you will be listed as a hooked fish who takes it all too seriously and a possible person to pay up when the screws are turned.

 

Much more fruitful than someone who doesn't give a toss and won't respond.

 

• Do not pay

• Do not contact them

• Do not worry

• Ignore any letters you receive, no matter how threatening

• They will go away after 5 or 6 letters

• Get on with your life

 

The only people to complain to are Trading Standards and/or the police. The latter will probably be more willing to help if you live in a quieter, more rural location.