PCN - 24 Not parked wholly withing the marking of a bay or space (N.Ireland)

[squirrelnutkin]

I got a PCN for parking on the street. The pavement has been removed and replaced with a lowered area which I can only assume is for off street parking but it is not marked as such in any way i.e. no white lines, signs etc. There was a car parked there and I parked beside it (but not obstructing it's exit). Can I appeal the PCN on the grounds that I was not illegally parked because the 'parking bay' which they refer to is not marked? I have parked in the same spot on a regular basis for many years with no PCN.

Edited May 26, 2008 by squirrelnutkin
oops - spelling mistakes

[green_and_mean]

A photo would help.

[squirrelnutkin]

I tried but it won't let me post attachments.

[green_and_mean]

Host it on tinypic.com and post the link

[squirrelnutkin]

[green_and_mean]

Technically a bay can be bordered by the kerb which looks like the case here. However for the contravention 24 the vehicle needs to be in the bay at least a little bit which appears not to be the case. 'Off street' out of bay parking is a different matter but 'on street' parking outside the bay is never a contravention its parking across the markings that is prohibited (hence the word wholy), if the car is totally outside a different contravention should be used.

[squirrelnutkin]

Thanks for the advice. To me this PCN is utterly ridiculous. I was particularly irate because I returned to my car to find a ticket on it after walking past an idiot parked on an adjacent street on double yellow lines within a metre of the junction. Was there a PCN on that? Of course not!

 

I'll post the outcome of my appeal.

[squirrelnutkin]

A big thank you for the advice given.

The nice people in Parking Enforcement sent me a letter to say that "the Penalty Charge Notice issued in connection with the contravention has now been cancelled".

Woo hoo!

[green_and_mean]

Happy to help, glad you got a good result.

[squirrelnutkin]

Arrgh! My other half just got a ticket for parking in exactly the same place.

 

This time they used contravention 26 'Vehicle not parked close to the kerb and not within a designated parking space'.

 

He has photos to prove that he was no more than about 6 inches from the kerb (closer than in the previous picture) - how close do they expect you to park?

 

It is worth appealing again?

[green_and_mean]

Sometimes people just don't learn do they, lol?? Yes its worth an appeal contact the Council and ask for any photos they have and get back to me and I'll sort out an appeal.

[squirrelnutkin]

Thanks green-and-mean. I've viewed their photos online and the only difference from the last ticket is that the car is actually closer to the kerb!

It appears (given that the ticket was issued by a different 'traffic attendant') that they're just picking a random number from their list to see if they can get some money out of me.

 

I'll post a pic.

[squirrelnutkin]

Sorry the pic is so big. Again, note the cars in the background parked on the double yellows. Did they get a ticket ... I doubt it!

 

[green_and_mean]

I would not concern yourself over other cars they may have got PCNs, had a Blue Badge or been loading. The contravention is technically correct as the kerb is at the back of the bay however 'no part of the vehicle' may be 50 cms from kerb and the rear is within 50 cms. It may be a case of going to a formal appeal but the back is certainly not away from the kerb. (assuming yours is the lighter colour car?)

[lamma]

"no part of the vehicle is more than 50 cms from the kerb".

it would have to be a very narrow vehicle for that to true such as a bicycle.

have never seen a car narrow enough for this to be true.

[squirrelnutkin]

Yes, ours is the silver car.

 

Any advice on the wording for an appeal letter?

[green_and_mean]

I am trying to locate the NI legislation that covers the contravention then I'll get back with a letter, what town is it?

[squirrelnutkin]

Belfast, Roads Service NI issue the tickets.

[lamma]

the 50 cms thing is about double parking I believe. the correct wording should be something like

"The contravention of double parking applies when a vehicle parks on any

part of the carriageway and no part of the vehicle is within 50 cm of the

edge of the carriageway" rather than the nonsensical "no part of the vehicle may be more that 50 cm from the kerb"

 

which is as lcose as I can get to 'not parked close to the kerb' by guesswork. can we see a picture of the ticket - suitably washed of your personal details.

I have to say now that I don't know which regs apply in N.I. ( I know its not TMA). the picture of the ticket will clear that up.

[squirrelnutkin]

The legislation (as stated on the PCN) is 'The Traffic Management (Northern Ireland) Order 2005 Articles 4 to 17 (as amended)' - if that helps?

 

The PCN says that the vehicle 'was seen in ** Street (Belfast) on (Date) **** From (Time) 13.47 To (Time) 13.49 by Traffic Attendant: ****'

Who had reasonable cause to believe that the following parking contravention had occurred:

26 Vehicle not parked close to the kerb and not within a designated parking space.

[green_and_mean]

the 50 cms thing is about double parking I believe. the correct wording should be something like

"The contravention of double parking applies when a vehicle parks on any

part of the carriageway and no part of the vehicle is within 50 cm of the

edge of the carriageway" rather than the nonsensical "no part of the vehicle may be more that 50 cm from the kerb"

 

which is as lcose as I can get to 'not parked close to the kerb' by guesswork. can we see a picture of the ticket - suitably washed of your personal details.

I have to say now that I don't know which regs apply in N.I. ( I know its not TMA). the picture of the ticket will clear that up.

 

Ill let you sort this one out then as you seem to be the 'expert' and I just post 'rubbish' and 'nonsense'.

[lamma]

I don't recall ever making a blanket statement that you 'just post rubbish'.

What on earth makes you think that ?

[squirrelnutkin]

Guys, guys, please don't fight.

 

I'm just grateful for any advice on whether this PCN was justified and, if not, how best to appeal it.

[lamma]

need to see pictures of ALL of the PCN - suitably washed of your personal details.

[squirrelnutkin]