Detained by police for unpaid PCN

[Fair-Parking]

With regard to Section 49, I can readily accept that the front line officers probably did feel that an offence had taken place and that their suspicions allowed them to detain motorists via a 'warrant'. Ask a police officer what the term 'warrant' means and he'll probably give an answer along the lines of 'official authority determined by a court that allows and officer to detain, question and in some cases arrest'.

 

Where this case went horribly wrong is in senior officers passing on this wrongful assumption to the more junior ones and whilst I agree that we now have a name of a Chief Inspector, I fear that he too may only have been carrying out orders from above. Even if he was the one who suggested that this operation be carried out, then surely the structure within GMP would have required him to send a report to those above, along with frequest updates as the campaign continued

 

The responsibility for this debacle lies firmly at the feet those at the very top of police policy who failed to realise that their officers were breaking the law each time a car was stopped and who have still to realise that their answers to Freedom of Information Act requests also falls below the legal requirements set by the Act.

[JonCris]

Don't be surprised if this starts & stops with the named CI as they are given have quite a lot of autonomy in which to operate....... & again I ask who apart from the bailiffs benefited from this scheme............... did the bailiffs make donations to the police orphans & widows funds .............. & if not what????

[lamma]

I have to disagree with you FP (I am stunned to say). The police know full well the difference between a civil and a criminal matter and a very aware that parking is decriminalised (in this case). This last fact alone is enough in my view. It is not lack of awareness at all, it is a lack of any concern whatsoever. The 'feeding off the motorist' crosses many boundaries and organisations and is an "organisation" in its own right. Like any large organisation it behaves in certain well known and predictable ways. We see examples of that in just about every thread on here.

[Fair-Parking]

Of course they do as a body Lamma, though not necessarily throughout the rank and file, but it is almost impossible to believe that the very senior officers didn't know what was happening. Either they allowed it to happen, or they were grossly negligent if they weren't aware.

 

Lets see what Watching You comes up with when GMP respond to his second request.

[JonCris]

The reason they 'allowed' it to happen is because before the consumer revolution against 1st the banks now the rest who are ripping them off, they would have got away with it

 

More & more of the public are beginning to realize their rights. I envisage that in the near future we the public will, like the Chinese, have our access to the web severly restricted

 

They are already, under the guise of fighting terror, (I think the horse has bolted on the idea that a terrorist would now use the web) requiring ISP to retain records a give access to every jobsworth who wants to see where you have been on the web

[lamma]

Of course they do as a body Lamma, though not necessarily throughout the rank and file, but it is almost impossible to believe that the very senior officers didn't know what was happening. Either they allowed it to happen, or they were grossly negligent if they weren't aware.

 

Lets see what Watching You comes up with when GMP respond to his second request.

 

Agree. Police manpower use is measured to all heck and back (thanks to Tony). there is no way that senior people did not know. Plus RTA 1991 is quite old now and has been in force for longer than most police careers. Agree re the FOI - but expect 'a beauty'.

[changy]

Like they don't have any real criminals to catch

[letshelp]

Hi Changy,

Manchester is a well know law abiding area with very little crime taking place:rolleyes:

[crem]

Hi Changy,

Manchester is a well know law abiding area with very little crime taking place:rolleyes:

 

Is MossSide no longer part of Manchester then? 8)

[green_and_mean]

You may be surprised to know this works both ways. JBW (the company seen on cops, cars, balliffs) claim in a recent press release to announce they are doubling the size of their ANPR fleet. That they will report any vehicles they find using ANPR that do not have an MOT, Tax or are stolen to the Police. How they come by that information to feed into their ANPR system remains a mystery to me?

[Fair-Parking]

G & M - Can you confirm this press release? Any chance of a copy or direction to where we might find it?

[green_and_mean]

G & M - Can you confirm this press release? Any chance of a copy or direction to where we might find it?

 

It was in a trade journal but

 

Enforcement services at JBW

 

The first enforcement agency to deploy mobile ANPR enforcement vehicles using our bespoke Evader Detection System (EDS), JBW are now providing special enforcement operations for a number of existing clients as well as new contracted clients for ANPR operations only.

 

EDS not only assists JBW in achieving higher collection figures for existing clients but also assists in cutting down on major crime and disorder when used in conjunction with the Police, DVLA, Immigration and various Local Authorities and Government Departments.

[Rob S]

I would be very surprised if JBW have any access to the databases that have the MOT and insurance information on them, let alone access to police reports attached to vehicle records on the PNC.

[green_and_mean]

JBW’s growing ANPR fleet set to recover over three quarters of a million

 

Debt management and enforcement organisation JBW has increased its branded ANPR fleet to 11 - virtually doubling the numbers in just six months.

The increase is in response to both client demand and company expansion, with the system cost-effective, simple and flexible but delivering rapid and tangible results.

 

JBW is using the ANPR vans very effectively both on a roaming and static basis. Roaming assignments are normally pre-scheduled to cover a particular area during specific times. These enable accurate, up to the minute reports to be fed back to clients - and the police where appropriate - on persistent evaders with outstanding warrants, on vehicles linked to outstanding fines, and those that are untaxed, uninsured, have no MOT or have been stolen. Assignments can include attempts to collect unpaid fines on a client’s behalf, and to this end some of JBW’s vans are equipped with pay stations so that offenders can settle their fines privately. The company also carries out static operations in conjunction with local police. If a passing vehicle is identified as an “offender”, JBW sends an alert to the police officer who can then flag the driver down and take action as required.

 

JBW’s ANPR assignments for clients in Greater London alone are achieving impressive results, with the company collecting payment for around 2000 cases and recovering over £750,000 during a six-month period.

[lamma]

wow uninsured vehicle spotting. that is a good trick when it the drivers who are actually insured not the vehicles. usual ANPR 'breakdown'. I can see lots of future posts about cars being towed despite the driver being validly insured. The data sharing behind this is a major concern though. Thanks for the heads up G&M (really, thanks).

[green_and_mean]

The data sharing behind this is a major concern though. Thanks for the heads up G&M (really, thanks).

 

I have my uses!!

 

If you look at the number of clients from a variety of sectors from the child support agency to local govt. parking fines it would be interesting to see if the company cross references its databases. Lets say that during a crack down on Blue badge abuse Westminster Council gives JBW a list of stolen Westminster BB. Would a JBW APNR van driving around Sutton as an example looking for PCN debtors also be given the list of stolen badges? Debt collectors traditionally use a variety of sources to track down debtors such as electoral role but the possibility of JBW using govt sources such as child support records or motor vehicle insurance policy records to trace 'missing' clients is in my opinion an area of concern.

 

If you want a laugh look at the video of 'JBW serving your community' here..

 

 

Silver Worldwide : Cheltenham, London, Boston, Hong Kong

 

I love the shots of them in bullet proof vests trying to look important, anyone would think they were going on a drugs raid not chasing after un-paid child support, lol!

[Fair-Parking]

Yes - good work G & M. As Claudius once said 'Let all the poisons that lurk in the woodwork, hatch out'.

 

However we still need to establish just how much of this is fact and just how much is swilling around in JBW's self important minds. Private citizens who parade about in bullet proof vests do tend have 'Walter Mitty' characteristics about them.

 

Having seen Waller himself lying on 'Cars, Cops and Bailiffs' by publicly stating on national TV that he was 'court bailiff' and that he possessed a 'court warrant' in the company of an simple minded cohort both heroically extorting money from a lone woman by fraud, its very possible that having deluded himself that this stupidly illegal approach works when putting on an act for TV, it will work forever.

 

Thus the JBW website may well be an elaborate fabrication based on the fantasy notion that if one or two lies work, many more will render the JBW house of cards invincible. Waller is too arrogant to realise that the evidence against him grows daily.

 

JBW is clearly trying to attract business via a website littered with claims that breach the Advertising and Trading Standards regulations.

[JonCris]

Excellent find GM

 

I suspect there will be a bit of a furore over this.

 

They'll be allowed to carry guns next

[green_and_mean]

Private citizens who parade about in bullet proof vests do tend have 'Walter Mitty' characteristics about them.

 

 

I think he has been watching too much TV and thinks he is 'Dog the Bounty Hunter' :grin:

[JonCris]

Has anyone thought of writing to the MoJ & asking if this claim by JBW is correct, if not that might put the cat amongst the pigeons for JBW

 

If anyone does they should mention their false representation on national TV when they claimed to be court appointed baillifs 'executing a 'warrant'

[Rob S]

JBW’s growing ANPR fleet set to recover over three quarters of a million

 

Debt management and enforcement organisation JBW has increased its branded ANPR fleet to 11 - virtually doubling the numbers in just six months.

The increase is in response to both client demand and company expansion, with the system cost-effective, simple and flexible but delivering rapid and tangible results.

 

JBW is using the ANPR vans very effectively both on a roaming and static basis. Roaming assignments are normally pre-scheduled to cover a particular area during specific times. These enable accurate, up to the minute reports to be fed back to clients - and the police where appropriate - on persistent evaders with outstanding warrants, on vehicles linked to outstanding fines, and those that are untaxed, uninsured, have no MOT or have been stolen. Assignments can include attempts to collect unpaid fines on a client’s behalf, and to this end some of JBW’s vans are equipped with pay stations so that offenders can settle their fines privately. The company also carries out static operations in conjunction with local police. If a passing vehicle is identified as an “offender”, JBW sends an alert to the police officer who can then flag the driver down and take action as required.

 

JBW’s ANPR assignments for clients in Greater London alone are achieving impressive results, with the company collecting payment for around 2000 cases and recovering over £750,000 during a six-month period.

 

Do you have the link to where you got this information from?

[green_and_mean]

JBW’s growing ANPR fleet set to recover over three quarters of a million

 

(Apologies mods if link is not allowed delete if inappropriate)

 

if link does not work google the heading and it comes up

[watchingyou]

I dont think I have made 5 posts yet so I cant show you my web site according to the rules of this forum i have to make 5 posts before I can show you the full URL of watchingyou.info.

[green_and_mean]

I dont think I have made 5 posts yet so I cant show you my web site according to the rules of this forum i have to make 5 posts before I can show you the full URL of watchingyou.info.

 

And this shameless plug for your website has what to do with this thread?

[watchingyou]

green_and_mean I have been called worse than that in my life but if that’s how you feel I have no problem with it.

 

The point I want to make is that this kind of institutionalised attitude to Laws from GMP and other organisations is not unusual when they are dealing with members of the public these days. I don’t believe there is much hope of understanding the rationale behind whats happening in any particular incident without looking at the bigger picture. The police like all the other institutions in this country are driven by a coherent plan which is devised across many other government departments including ACPO and the Home Office therefore for a real understanding it is imperative that the whole is looked at rather than individual incidents in isolation.

 

I am not the least bit interested if anyone does not want to look at my website and of course whether or not the web site is mine or not is not at all relevant; it is however there if you do. It represents a lot of my personal work time and commitment in this area and I strongly believe the content is very relevant when trying to understand why GMP and other police forces in the 43 police force areas we have in this country determine their policy and then by implication their actions.

 

Any policy that a Chief Constable wants to make by the way always falls outside the remit of the IPCC and it is in this way that evasion of very many actions of his officers that would otherwise fall under the scrutiny of IPCC is not looked at.

 

 

When you look at the kind of response that GMP have given to a perfectly reasonable request under the Freedom of Information Act I think you can see that they are not bothered about any repercussions because they also know there wont be any they cant evade; and don’t hold your breathe if you think the internal review response when it comes will be much different because it wont.

Edited September 2, 2008 by watchingyou