Statutory Demand - Connaught Collections

[nicklea]

Don't worry.

 

As I told you before, this has to be done at a county court - not a magistrates court. People at the magistrates court won't necessarily know what the proper thing to do is. Also, solicitors that concentrate on criminal law also may not know what to do.

 

You need to go to your local county court. You can find the address here:-

 

The requested resource (/HMCSCourtFinder/tiles/Her Majesty's Courts Service - Court Information and Addresses) is not available

 

Almost all county courts deal with bankruptcy, but not all. So you just need to check. You do this by clicking on the 'Get Court Details' button on that website when you've found the closest county court to you.

 

When you do this you will see all the details about that particular court. There will be a box called work type and you just need to check that it includes bankruptcy. The vast majority of county courts do deal with this but some very small ones don't. For example, Altrincham county court only deals with civil and divorce cases but Manchester deals with everything.

 

I don't get it...why would a local court not be able to do this?

 

The magistrates court only deals with criminal law and the county court deals with non-criminal law. Bankruptcy isn't criminal

Edited June 3, 2008 by nicklea

[ElevatorFour]

Thanks for the response.

 

By "local court" I meant a county court - having already discovered that the Magistrates Court don't deal with it, despite them stating over the phone prior to my visit this morning, that they did. I phoned several other courts, and was given a number to call, and was told that it was the High Court that dealt with this.

 

I've already checked the local county court (not particularly "local" either, being 7/8 miles away), and they don't deal with it (I have phoned twice), and they referred me (both times) to the High Court...phoned National Debtline, who basically told me what I already knew, and said it had to be filed at the County Court - even after I'd said they had already told me that they don't do that there...

 

So, it's back to the High Court, which still seems to me to be massive overkill...the only two county courts that I recognise as being within 60-90 minutes drive of my home are further away than the High Court is, and they (according to HMCS - and I have gone through the entire list of courts that deal with bankruptcy) are the only two that deal with this.

 

Can that be right? Am I really expected to travel that far in order to file papers?

[PI Guy]

also have a look at this thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/146718-urgent-1st-credit-bankruptcy.html#post1548141

 

http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/pdfs/forms/6-4.pdf

 

http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/pdfs/forms/6-5.pdf

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/112326-debt-collection-agencies-statutory.html

[nicklea]

I've already checked the local county court (not particularly "local" either, being 7/8 miles away), and they don't deal with it (I have phoned twice), and they referred me (both times) to the High Court...phoned National Debtline, who basically told me what I already knew, and said it had to be filed at the County Court - even after I'd said they had already told me that they don't do that there...

 

Don't always believe everything that you're told over the telephone!!

 

So, it's back to the High Court, which still seems to me to be massive overkill...the only two county courts that I recognise as being within 60-90 minutes drive of my home are further away than the High Court is, and they (according to HMCS - and I have gone through the entire list of courts that deal with bankruptcy) are the only two that deal with this.

 

Sorry if I'm being nosy, (and tell me to shut up if I am) but do you live and/or work in a really remote part of the country?

 

Can that be right? Am I really expected to travel that far in order to file papers?

 

No, now that you've got the affadavit sworn you can just post it to the relevant court (I would suggest recorded delivery or special delivery - to make sure). However I would suggest that you need to attend in person when you get the date of the hearing

[ElevatorFour]

Just checked with one of those "local courts" and it is, indeed, the High Court that I need to file the papers with. Finally got to speak to a bankruptcy clerk, and he was quite definite that the High Court was my local.

 

Good grief what a palaver!

 

Nicklea, not nosy at all! I actually live in London...can you believe that my "local" court is the High Court? Suddenly I feel all privileged and important. 8)

 

I'm going to take it into the court myself tomorrow, and make a day out in town, have lunch and browse the shops! I'll call it "expenses".

 

Thank you everyone, yet again, for your help.

[nicklea]

Oops!

 

Sorry, you're right - in London it's different.

 

Insolvency Rules 6.9(1)(b)

 

bankruptcy proceedings must be commenced in the High Court if the debtor against whom the petition is presented has resided or carried on business within the London insolvency district for the greater part of the 6 months immediately preceding the presentation of the petition or for a greater part of those 6 months than any other insolvency district; or

 

 

and:-

 

The London Insolvency district includes the districts of the inner London county courts Bow, Central London, Clerkenwell, Lambeth, City of London, Shoreditch and West London as well as the county courts at Barnet, Brentford, Edmonton, Wandsworth and Willesden

[ElevatorFour]

Hello again

 

I got a letter from Connaught today telling me that they are now in a position to present a Bankruptcy Petition against me. The letter states that as I have chosen to "either ignore the SD or demonstrate an ability to pay the sum claimed, you leave us with little alternative other than to present a Petition".

 

When I filed my SD set aside at the court, they told me I would hear from them by yesterday, which I didn't. I'll call them on Monday to find out what is happening with it. Clearly Connaught have not been contacted by the courts either, or they wouldn't have written the sentence I quoted above.

 

Obviously there's nothing I can do about this today, given that it's the weekend (typical tactic of debt collectors I think, to send stuff to arrive on a weekend), but my query is, is it usual for the courts to take so long to respond to a request to set aside an SD?

 

I am fairly certain that the courts will set it aside as I am sure the debt is statute barred - is it worth me sending any letters to Connaught, or should I now just wait for the courts to make their decision?

[nicklea]

Don't worry about that threat - as long as you filed the sd set aside then that is an automatic defence to them bringing a bankruptcy petition.

 

In my case it took about two weeks for the court to reply with a date - maybe just give the court a call on Monday?

[ElevatorFour]

Thanks Nicklea for such a quick response.

 

I will call the court on Monday, until then there's nothing I can do, so will try to enjoy my weekend as usual.

[nicklea]

s267 Insolvency Act 1986:-

 

267. Grounds of creditor’s petition.

 

— (1) A creditor’s petition must be in respect of one or more debts owed by the debtor, and the petitioning creditor or each of the petitioning creditors must be a person to whom the debt or (as the case may be) at least one of the debts is owed.

 

(2) Subject to the next three sections, a creditor’s petition may be presented to the court in respect of a debt or debts only if, at the time the petition is presented— (a) the amount of the debt, or the aggregate amount of the debts, is equal to or exceeds the bankruptcy level,

 

(b) the debt, or each of the debts, is for a liquidated sum payable to the petitioning creditor, or one or more of the petitioning creditors, either immediately or at some certain, future time, and is unsecured,

 

© the debt, or each of the debts, is a debt which the debtor appears either to be unable to pay or to have no reasonable prospect of being able to pay, and

 

(d) there is no outstanding application to set aside a statutory demand served (under section 268 below) in respect of the debt or any of the debts.

 

In your case there is an outstanding application so they can't bring a bankruptcy petition

[babybear39]

Subscribing...

 

Something is seriously wrong with all these SDs from connaughts and 1st credit.

 

I think they're panicking over the new legislation and trying to push through as many as possible that they don't have/can't get CCAs for

[madjenny1]

Trying to get my head around debt issues really...I really dont understand if the debt is more than 6years old, isnt it statuted barred and if it is, do you still need to get a stat demand set aside, and if so surely this is your defence isnt it...maybe someone could explain this too me...thanks...And also I have read it is easy to get a stat demand set aside, is that if you have grounds too?..what if the creditor supplies a valid CCA and all the necssairy paperwork, whats the defence then?..and the best course of action?...thanks again..

[babybear39]

If it's statute barred that's a good reason to get the SD set aside.

[madjenny1]

ok, so even if you think the debt is statuted barred, you still need to get it set aside?...and what if it isnt statuted barred?...and the creditor has supplied CCA, is there any defence to have this type of stat demand set aside?..tks

[ElevatorFour]

Jenny, it might be an idea to start your own thread and ask questions there. People are really helpful here, but it seems to make sense to keep to one thread to ask your questions about your own situation.

[madjenny1]

ok, its just I thought this related to your question...I wanted to add I was adviced by another debt forum site, that I didnt need to get a statued barred debt set aside, but to send them the standard letter stating the debt was statued barred, which I did, to recieve a letter back from my creditor saying my file was now closed...I will from now on post my own questions, didnt mean to jump on yours..

[ElevatorFour]

Update:

 

I called the court this morning, and they said that there is a hearing set for July, a "15 minute slot".

 

What do I do next? And what is the court process for this next step?

 

Cheers

[42man]

You should get notification of the hearing, (but call the court to find out the date - if you don't know already) which you will need to attend, the SD will get thrown out as the debt is statute barred....also don't forget to claim your costs too...which you can write down on a separate sheet !!!

[ElevatorFour]

What I don't understand is, why would the court waste its time having a hearing for a case that it plans to set aside, when it could be set aside on the basis that it is statute barred (which I believe it to be) without any attendance from anyone?

 

Also still need to know what I do next.

[42man]

Maybe they want to make an example of the debt collection agency and award you your costs for the harrassment and wasted time !!

[42man]

My judge was on my side for sure, and came up with a point, that I had missed and and made an order for a piece of paperwork that they had missed, and couldn't supply. He definately had the feeling that nobody should be forced into bankruptcy !!

[ElevatorFour]

I have had no contact with this DCA at all, beyond receipt of the SD and the consequent letter I referred to on Saturday.

 

Is there anyone with any answers to the questions I asked?

 

1) What do I do next?

2) What is the court process for this next step?

 

Thanks.

[nicklea]

You don't need to do anything unless you hear from them in the meanwhile.

 

The reason why there is a hearing isn't because they're "planning to set it aside" the reason is that YOU have requested a court hearing.

 

Issuing the SD against you isn't actually done in court or anything, it's just something they have to do before they can start court action.

 

So, in this case, it's you that are starting court action - the set-aside application is a bit like an injunction, you are going to court and requesting that the court does not allow them to make a petition for your bankruptcy.

 

So, the court will want to hear what you have to say. You don't need to go, in which case the judge will just decide based on what you wrote in the application form. But I would suggest that it would be in your best interests to go.

 

The other side may or may not turn up - I would guess that they won't. But never assume anything. The application will be heard by the judge in his offices, or if it is in the court, there is unlikely to be anybody else there.

 

He will ask you about the situation and why you think the SD should be set aside. Basically, you're just going through the points you wrote on the affadavit. If the other side turn up (unlikely though) he will ask them for their reasons as to why he shouldn't grant the set-aside application.

 

He will haer both sides and then give you his decision then and there. You will get a court order a couple of weeks later confirming this.

 

You should also claim your expenses at £9.25 per hour, 40p per mile travelling (or your tube fare etc) and loss of a day's wages if appropriate

[ElevatorFour]

Thank you Nicklea.

 

I just had no clue what to expect and whether I needed to prepare anything further. It's a long wait until the court date. I'll prepare an expenses sheet at some stage...will I literally only be expected to repeat what was already said on the application? I don't have any other paperwork, apart from the letters I mentioned in my initial post, and of course previous statements of account.

[Danni32]

Hi,

 

I am going through the same thing with this lot at the moment.

 

I have my hearing tomorrow, and will let you know what to expect.

 

Good luck