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am i too late to stop charging order


connors
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I've just found this thread, best of luck with your quest. I must point out that having a charging order stopped is very difficult indeed, although you have been part of the DMP the court may still grant the order so you will need some other arguments if possible. I'm going to keep an eye on the thread for any developments.

 

Best wishes,

 

Seq

 

how can they do this if a ccj has to be broken first?:-?

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ahh aliance and fester i see...their is a tread with aliance and fester on the forums may be worth a good like i will later on im watchin the match sorry see to it later

patrickq1

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

 

 

 

 

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Which match is that, Patrick? :rolleyes:

Steven

 

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lol boxing match

patrickq1

i refuse to answer taking the fifth amendment

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

 

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by patrickq1 are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional

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how can they do this if a ccj has to be broken first?:-?

 

arr I didn't see that.

 

If an instalment order has not been breached you should argue that the charge cannot be made final.

 

This was confirmed in Mercantile Credit V Ellis. I wrote some info on this a while back, I'll go fetch....

 

Here it is:

 

If there is an instalment order in place, a creditor would not be able to apply for a Charging Order.

 

Section 86(1) The County Courts Act 1984:

 

Where the court has made an order for payment of any sum of money by instalments, execution on the order shall not be issued until after default in payment of some instalment according to the order.

 

This was further considered in the case of Mercantile Credit V Ellis in The Court of Appeal 1987. It was found that the wording of the Charging Orders Act states quite clearly that no further action could be taken without a default in payment. It should be noted, however, that in the case of Ropaigealach V Allied Irish Bank CA Nov 2001 where an instalment order is made AFTER an interim charging order has been made, a court has the jurisdiction to make a Charging Order final.

 

There are various tactics which a creditor will use to try and obtain the Interim Order, they will try their best not to allow the court grant an instalment order on a CCJ. If a debtor wishes to admit the claim and request instalments, the creditor may argue the instalments are unacceptable and that a Charging Order is more appropriate. A creditor might also seek a re-determination if a court accepts a debtor’s offer of instalments. Some creditors have even been known to ask a district judge to consider a Time Order to change the judgment to forthwith.

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arr I didn't see that.

 

If an instalment order has not been breached you should argue that the charge cannot be made final.

 

This was confirmed in Mercantile Credit V Ellis. I wrote some info on this a while back, I'll go fetch....

 

Here it is:

 

If there is an instalment order in place, a creditor would not be able to apply for a Charging Order.

 

Section 86(1) The County Courts Act 1984:

 

Where the court has made an order for payment of any sum of money by instalments, execution on the order shall not be issued until after default in payment of some instalment according to the order.

 

This was further considered in the case of Mercantile Credit V Ellis in The Court of Appeal 1987. It was found that the wording of the Charging Orders Act states quite clearly that no further action could be taken without a default in payment. It should be noted, however, that in the case of Ropaigealach V Allied Irish Bank CA Nov 2001 where an instalment order is made AFTER an interim charging order has been made, a court has the jurisdiction to make a Charging Order final.

 

There are various tactics which a creditor will use to try and obtain the Interim Order, they will try their best not to allow the court grant an instalment order on a CCJ. If a debtor wishes to admit the claim and request instalments, the creditor may argue the instalments are unacceptable and that a Charging Order is more appropriate. A creditor might also seek a re-determination if a court accepts a debtor’s offer of instalments. Some creditors have even been known to ask a district judge to consider a Time Order to change the judgment to forthwith.

 

ahh thanks was beginning to lose hope there !!!!

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hi everyone,

been to court today, not really sure what happened there, i told the judge that i was of the opinion that a charging order could not be made until a ccj had been broken, the way i understood it as he explained it was we have broken the ccj as it was for full payment, he explained that the first court appearance was for monthly payments and that the second court appearance was to demand in full although we have never had a letter demanding full payment. any way the second court appearance docs, the slimy solicitor did not have, the judge was very condescending and kept on reminding us that the charge did not mean that we had to sell the property it was an insurance for the A & L, i told him we understood that but i was still under the impression that no ccj had been broken, the judge and solicitor had a sort of head and head and decided that the docs had to be produced, any way it ended up that it was adjourned for the A & L to produce the last court appearance letters, we have no correspondence as my husband has sent it off to payplan, we are waiting for them to contact us to request a copy. the slimy solicitor said to us as we were walking out that all we are doing is delaying the charging order at more cost to ourselves, hope someone can understand all this as i can't :confused:

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I'm guessing the second court hearing was for a re-determination? Does this ring a bell?

 

to me it was just that the solicitor did not have the paperwork for the last court appearance nor did we. but they were both saying that it was a ccj requesting the full amount and that's why it is now broken, it all just seemed formality that the charging order is going to be granted, the judge kept reiterating that this is just insurance for the A & L, solicitor told us anybody has the right to turn a unsecured debt into a secure one where there is property concerned and nobody is planning to make us homeless it's just in case we sell, they get paid out, re-determination does not ring a bell, if you could explain to me what that is, maybe it will, (sorry to sound so stupid).... actually the second court hearing in liverpool (our area ) may have been a re-determinination?????? :???:

Edited by connors
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Hi conners,

I think a re-determination is just a way of looking at an existing structured set of repayments and deciding that it would be better to change the terms of repayment i.e. re-determining them . In your case from monthly payments to a full amount and using your property as security.

 

It would seem to me that if neither the 'slimy solicitor' or the court can produce proof of the exisrtence of this re-determination at the moment - they're on a hiding to nothing. I would also suggest that they should be made to produce a copy of the notification to you that this change had taken place........... without it how can anyone hold you to blame for not knowing. However , I'd watch it, they're not above manufacturing a copy.:rolleyes:

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Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

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Hi conners,

I think a re-determination is just a way of looking at an existing structured set of repayments and deciding that it would be better to change the terms of repayment i.e. re-determining them . In your case from monthly payments to a full amount and using your property as security.

 

It would seem to me that if neither the 'slimy solicitor' or the court can produce proof of the exisrtence of this re-determination at the moment - they're on a hiding to nothing. I would also suggest that they should be made to produce a copy of the notification to you that this change had taken place........... without it how can anyone hold you to blame for not knowing. However , I'd watch it, they're not above manufacturing a copy.:rolleyes:

 

they seemed pretty sure this doc did exist, we have requested payplan to send all correspondence from A & L court case back to us so will update you when we receive them, either way it all just seemed like a formality to me that the charging order is going to go ahead, if this re-determination is in existence can they do that? how would i know a manufactured copy? would it be difficult for A & L to obtain one if indeed they do not have one now????? sooo many questions, :?

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Sorry, conners,:) I meant a copy of the letter from A&L notifying you of the change in payment procedure i.e. from instalments to full payment. It should be amongst the stuff you have requested from payplan.

 

I wasn't suggesting that the court would manufacure a copy of their order. :eek:

Best to wait now until you get all the correspondence you have asked for - the picture may become clearer then........

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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i put on another thread by mistake this quote could it not be construed as a breach of contract by disemination

worth a look since they are the ones who wish to re negotiate a contract without your agreement and in doing so are attepmting to co- erse the judges thinking into agreement with them hopefully the PAY PLAN data proves they have been untruthful and the same judge see's this for what it is i dare not put it into print what i think but here's hoping the truth will prevail and these slimmy greedy peeps will be taught a lesson and made to pay for all their greed and lies

patrickq1

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

 

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by patrickq1 are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional

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i put on another thread by mistake this quote could it not be construed as a breach of contract by disemination

worth a look since they are the ones who wish to re negotiate a contract without your agreement and in doing so are attepmting to co- erse the judges thinking into agreement with them hopefully the PAY PLAN data proves they have been untruthful and the same judge see's this for what it is i dare not put it into print what i think but here's hoping the truth will prevail and these slimmy greedy peeps will be taught a lesson and made to pay for all their greed and lies

patrickq1

 

received some correspondence from payplan not all we asked for mind, gonna get onto that today but there is a letter from february this year requesting re-determination, so looks like they have got it, becoming despondent now, looks inevitable they gonna get it, :evil:

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Hi conners,:)

there is a letter from february this year requesting re-determination, so looks like they have got it, becoming despondent now, looks inevitable they gonna get it, :evil:

 

If they have it why didn't you get a demand for full payment and a copy of the re-determination order................?

If you weren't asked for the payment how could you respond - ? perhaps this could swing the court decision in your favour, conners? But as most people seem to think this is difficult and it takes a lot to get a court to change it's mind :rolleyes: it looks like a case of 'wait and see' at the moment.

Try to think positive, conners,:) until the final decision is made .... as patrick says -here's hoping truth will prevail........... :cool:

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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But as most people seem to think this is difficult and it takes a lot to get a court to change it's mind :rolleyes: it looks like a case of 'wait and see' at the moment.

 

It's a shame but judges are trained to make a charging order final unless there are significant reasons why it shouldn't be. The practice of a creditor going for re-determination is a very sneaky one too :(

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