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hiya

we got a ticket from a private company today for Obstructive Parking, as we were parked over 2 spaces in a free car park, initial charge of £60, rising to £90, then £135 with bailiffs and the threat of getting our details from the DVLA.

 

It was 9.35 and the retail park shops had just opened, and there was hardly any other cars in the car park.

 

We had parked at the far end of the car park due to the fact we had previously had our car damaged.

 

Do we ignore it and let them send us a letter or do we send them a letter and what would we say?:eek::eek::eek:

 

thank you

You Ain't not gona like this deary, but if car park was nearly empty and you parked over two bays, they should throw the book at you. This sort of thing is becoming to prevalent and shows that the level of concentration required to drive safely and considerately on todays heavily conjested roads was not being met. There are far too many drivers on the roads who's minds are far from the 110% concentration demanded today.

As I started--you ain't gona like it.

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You Ain't not gona like this deary, but if car park was nearly empty and you parked over two bays, they should throw the book at you. This sort of thing is becoming to prevalent and shows that the level of concentration required to drive safely and considerately on todays heavily conjested roads was not being met. There are far too many drivers on the roads who's minds are far from the 110% concentration demanded today.

As I started--you ain't gona like it.

 

Actually it's YOU who ain't gonna like this.

 

There is nothing wrong or illegal about parking over two bays, no law exists that says you must only park in 1 bay or even which way you should park your car.

 

Parking across two bays in no way demonstrates a lack of concentration, indeed the opposite since the OP stated why they did just that, and also that they went to the far end of a deserted car park.

 

When you mention concentration it could be argued that since you failed to concentrate on the content in the original post that perhaps you should concentrate more and certainly before putting finger to keyboard.

 

As I started You ain't gonna like this.

 

Mossycat

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Barnsley BOY:- My standards are not as high as I would like, probably slightly short of Institute of Advanced Motorists, which should be the yardstick as to whether you are fit to be on the road or not. The previous two replies to yours shows shallowness and the type of attitude to driving that is the cause of many road incidents on todays conjested roads. Like it or not, driving today has become a profession, and demands professional standards at all times, if safe journeys are to be achieved, in acceptable journey times.

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My standards are not as high as I would like, probably slightly short of Institute of Advanced Motorists, which should be the yardstick as to whether you are fit to be on the road or not.

If thats the standard you want to judge yourself by then I hope you're not driving as you're not fit to be on the road by your own admission.

 

Like it or not, driving today has become a profession, and demands professional standards at all times, if safe journeys are to be achieved, in acceptable journey times.

What a load of horse manure. I have to drive as part of my job but I would not describe myself as a professional driver. I'm not perfect but I do try to maintain a safe standard. I fully recognise I make mistakes. Even professional drivers make mistakes. Think about Aryton Senna, a professional driver, he made a mistake and paid the ultimate price.

 

Some of the worst driving I've seen is from so called professional drivers. For example - tailgating by lorries (on the motorway), tailgating by white van man. And don't get me started on the dangerous and inconsiderate driving of Bus drivers or Taxi drivers. If thats the professional standard we're supposed to be aiming for then I think I'll give it a miss.

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pin1onyou:-I must admit that yours is the type of reply i anticipated. A professional driver is not necessarily one who is driving for a living, but one who has the experience to "Read the road". He/she should be in control of the vehicle under circumstances as described in the manual "Roadcraft". Professionalism, is being able to accurately judge speed and distance. Anticipate the actions of other road users. Drive consistently in a technically correct manner, and very importantly, being alert enough, and being in the correct position on the road to take full advantage of all opertunities which allow safe overtaking. The latter can drastically cut journey times. By the way, Roadcraft is the police patrol car drivers training manual.

I can't understand your comment about being tailgated by lorries on motorways. Heavy lorries are restricted to 56mph, which is common knowledge.

Finally, the message I was trying to get across, was that too many cars are being used as comfy lounge chairs, conference centres, domestic planning rooms(or business) and anything other than a concentrated work station. Cars and guns have one thing incommon---theyr'e great to use and safe, providing they are operated correctly,---if not, they are lethal instruments.

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Oh my Gawd "a professional driver is one that reads the road" What drivel.

 

One that reads the road or who is skilled is a competent driver whereas a professional driver is a driver who's profession is driving

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I can't understand your comment about being tailgated by lorries on motorways. Heavy lorries are restricted to 56mph, which is common knowledge.

I wasn't referring to being tailgated by lorries on the motorway but rather the way they will tailgate other vehicles (usually other lorries) in clear violation of the laws on stopping distances.

 

And for the record 70Mph is the speed limit not the minimum required speed. Given this premise it is entirely feasible that I could have been tailgated by a lorry (and also for the record I have been) . In order to drive safely you have to react to the road conditions and this sometimes means that you have to drive below the speed limit. I would have thought that was common knowledge and common sense.

 

Oh my Gawd "a professional driver is one that reads the road" What drivel.

 

One that reads the road or who is skilled is a competent driver whereas a professional driver is a driver who's profession is driving

Thank you for that Jon Cris thats sums it up quite succinctly.

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OH dear dear dear, what Have I done? I didn't realise that substandard driving was such a "Touchy" subject. This may be my last thread as I fear that Webmaster may slap our wrists for straying so far from the root purpose of the forum ie, PPCs on private land etc.

Finally, I would like to thank Pin1onyou for mentioning the poor standards observed in relation to busses and taxi's. White vans are, in the main, accidents looking for a place to happen. In relation to HGVs, this is a highly technical/political problem, and best not delved into further on this forum. If you are really interested, I am willing to discuss HGV laws/bible with you, probably best by PM or email. My thanks also for pointing out to me that the speed LIMIT is 70mph,a minor detail that seems to have escaped my notice over the last 50years. Take care now, keep the adrenalin pumping and the pedal to the metal.

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It takes a little more to get my adrenalin pumping than driving. I certainly don't drive pedal to metal. I can think of other far more entertaining things to get my glands pumping. :wink:

 

BTW I hope you're not driving as by your own admission you fall short of the the standard you believe that should the yardstick for fitness on the road. QED.

 

As for tailgating you only have to talk to the police or an advance driving instructor who will tell you the problem is very real and that so called professional drivers are some of the worst culprits. They take the problem very seriously in Germany with cameras set up to catch this specific offense.

 

As for pointing out the 70mph I was pointing out that it was a maximum and not a minimum speed. Your sarcastic response says to me that you have missed the point entirely. I'm probably casting pearls before swine but I'd suggest you re-read the post in its entirety and stop taking things out of context.

 

As for your point about this being way off topic - I quite agree. I won't lose any sleep if the mods take your drivel and my responses to it and dump it in the bear garden.

Edited by pin1onu

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Well Scaniaman, you certainly stirred up a hornets nest amongst Britains Best Drivers. I am a semi retired transport consultant and have spent much of my work giving reports, evidence and advice on transport related matters. Whilst most of your postings are correct, perhaps your choice of words were what incited adverse replys, mostly from the ill informed, useing terminology not becoming of what one expects on these forums. In your defence, I shall attempt a full and factual analysis of your critics, in a separate reply.

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The reply to the thread re straddled parking bays was right in respect that there are no Criminal laws relating to private land. I suspect from your reply that you wished to make the point that this type of parking was typical of attitudes to life in general today, where there is no pride in doing a job correctly, or as my old boss used to say "B----y Slack A---d.

Low standards of driving attract fines if the Road Traffic Act is infringed.

Your comments re the Institute of Advanced Motorists left you wide open to this thread being taken completely out of context. If you are just below the IAM standard, I would be more than happy to sit beside you anytime.

There have been discussions about trying to make this standard mandatory for drivers after a certain time from passing present test, but such discussions are at a very preliminary state.

Horse Manure!!a very valuable commodity, especially if you grow roses!!

The reference to Aryton Senna was in extremely poor taste. The skills required to drive racing cars on a racing circuit bear no relation what so ever to driving normal vehicles on public roads.

I believe your comments about professional drivers were also taken out of context, which was bourne out by the reply mentioning Competent drivers. A competent driver is one who drives technically correct for most of the time and is unlikely to be involved in an accident of his/her own making. Dull, but correct techniques employed. This level is good and in my humble opinion comes just below your version of Professional drivers.

When I was being taught to drive, possible around when you were too, my instructor placed great emphasis on "Reading the Road". This term just meant being fully aware what was going on all around you, anticipating various hazzards and anticipating the actions of other road users.

I must say, that your interpretation of "Professional drivers" was excellent, particularly the parts where you said drivers had to be wide awake in terms of alertness and being able to forsee oppertunities to safely utilise spaces in traffic and positioning on the road to cut journey times. I have experienced this skill and it does need practice, and adrenaline pumping if to cope with present day conjestion. A good working knowledge of components is greatly beneficial

I think it also worth mentioning that since driving tests began, there has been no real upgrading of standards to adequately cope with the huge upsurge in vehicle numbers. This also applies to the fact that every new model of car to come on the road is usually faster and generally higher performance than the model it superceded.

Hgv tailgateing:-When the 56mph speed limit was under debate, the authorities were well warned that "Convoys" of lorries all travelling at 56mph would occur. The only oppertunity to break the convoy would occur when the heaviest laden or least powerful lorry came to a hill and the more powerful trucks would then be able to overtake if the overtaking lane was empty enough or other car drivers allowed the overtaking manouver. Any driver being tailgated at over 56mph should report this vehicle to the police as it means that the speed limiter has been tampered with, which carries a heavy penalty. Tailgating below 56mph--well how long have you got?? It must also be bourne in mind that lorry drivers are under extreme pressure to complete a decent days work given the constraints of Drivers Hours legislation and compounded bt the EEC working time directive. A top of the range truck, ready for the road costs around £100,000, so its earnings should reflect this level of investment.

I trust that my piece has helped you in clarifying any misunderstandings which have caused unwarranted accusations of Drivel and the like.

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The reference to Aryton Senna was in extremely poor taste. The skills required to drive racing cars on a racing circuit bear no relation what so

ever to driving normal vehicles on public roads.

So sorry if it offends your sensability but I was making a deadly serious point. The point I was making was that even this highly skilled, competent and respected "Professional" driver made a mistake that regrettably cost him his life. I would suggest that a lot of the skills of a racing driver on a racing circuit - awareness of position of other vehicles, awareness of speed, road positioning, awareness of how a vehicle will react under braking etc is all highly relevant to the discussion. These are the skills that are fundamental to safe driving. The same thing that happened that happened to Aryton Senna could equally happen to someone else. One mistake while you're driving and you or someone else can end up dead.

 

I think it also worth mentioning that since driving tests began, there has been no real upgrading of standards to adequately cope with the huge upsurge in vehicle numbers. This also applies to the fact that every new model of car to come on the road is usually faster and generally higher performance than the model it superceded.

Its worth pointing out that safety standards in the vehicles are also being constantly reviewed and updated.

 

Its also worth pointing out that a lot of our roads are simply not engineered for the volumes of traffic.

 

Hgv tailgateing:-When the 56mph speed limit was under debate, the authorities were well warned that "Convoys" of lorries all travelling at 56mph would occur. The only oppertunity to break the convoy would occur when the heaviest laden or least powerful lorry came to a hill and the more powerful trucks would then be able to overtake if the overtaking lane was empty enough or other car drivers allowed the overtaking manouver. Any driver being tailgated at over 56mph should report this vehicle to the police as it means that the speed limiter has been tampered with, which carries a heavy penalty.

That does not answer the point I made about them following to close regardless of whether they are doing 56Mph or not. I regularly see lorries on motorways with less than a car length between them and the vehicle in front. Given the stopping distance of a fully laden HGV how can that sort of driving be endorsed.

 

It must also be bourne in mind that lorry drivers are under extreme pressure to complete a decent days work given the constraints of Drivers Hours legislation and compounded bt the EEC working time directive. A top of the range truck, ready for the road costs around £100,000, so its earnings should reflect this level of investment.

I hope you're not implying that this pressure justifies unsafe driving practice? It might explain their behavior but it in no way justifies it.

 

I trust that my piece has helped you in clarifying any misunderstandings which have caused unwarranted accusations of Drivel and the like.

Thank you for taking the time.

 

I had already understood the points that were being made. I don't beleive that my accusations of drivel were unwarranted. I've no time for sanctimonious off-topic posters.

 

Can I suggest that as this discussion is now completely off topic that we leave it there. Rather than continue to hijack this thread if someone wants to open a new thread to continue this discussion then go right ahead.

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Anyway back to the OP.

 

Don't pay and park across as many bays as you want in a private car park without fear of any penalty (assuming the car park is as empty as it was when you last did it).

 

Mossycat

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Thank you Mr. Deed for your constructive critism. As someone else said, it's not fair to monopolise this forum further. For those wishing to post more verbual diarrhoea on driving, this site offers a forum called Muppets on the road, which may well be best suited to some contributors. I note your excellent thread on tailgating etc. You mentioned Progressive/agressive driving---great stuff. I presume that having the "Right Mental Attitude" is also part of your philosophy.

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Thank you Mr. Deed for your constructive critism. As someone else said, it's not fair to monopolise this forum further. For those wishing to post more verbual diarrhoea on driving, this site offers a forum called Muppets on the road, which may well be best suited to some contributors. I note your excellent thread on tailgating etc. You mentioned Progressive/agressive driving---great stuff. I presume that having the "Right Mental Attitude" is also part of your philosophy.

So you're back to hijack the thread. Why don't you create a thread for Sanctimonius off-topic debate about driving standards in the Bear Garden and post there instead of inflicting more of your drivel on those trying to help the OP.

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Yip-and now Im'e back. So either switch to another site or put up with my sanctimonous drivell. According to your profile and that of the 4865 post man, I can't see what qualifies you to contradict a person who has driven since early child hood and spent most of his life behind a large selection of steering wheels, both in UK and Europe. A vehicle repair man and HGV transport manager.

Right, lets try and get this straddled parking thing laid to rest. Two days prior to my seeing this thread, I had to take my baby Grandson to a medical appointment at premises I had never visited before. On arrival I noticed only four disabled bays next to the long pathway into the premises. Three of the bays were occupied by blue badge holders, the fourth was partially blocked by a bitch in a black BMW 4x4,so as to make it unusable. This bimbo was sitting there reading something attached to a clip board. The other empty spaces were at the far end of the park, it was inclimate weather, and I had to carry the wee lad all the way back into the centre. Not funny when I suffer from severe spinal disabilities. Now do you see my resentment of straddled parking??

I do understand, to a certain extent, those drivers with less experience than I. We are all humans, and our driving will reflect aspects of human nature. The ambitious person who wants to maximise his/her potential equates to the PROGRESSIVE driver. Others who are quite content to follow the flow of the stream of life are likely to drive along at whatever speed other drivers set for them.

It is also worthy of note, that the make up of the human, results in some being naturally good at some tasks that others struggle at. As a former driving instructor I saw some examples of natural DRIVERS, but many that irrespective of training, would at best,only manage to pass the Govt. driving test. This situation is understandable as it's the position I would be in if attempting to learn to play a musical instrument.!!!

TAILGATING:-John Deed said it all in his piece in "Muppets on the road". I suspect however, that some people who have been tailgated by trucks, are those lighter ones that don't come under the category of HGV and therefore are not subject to 56mph. Whilst there are no LAWS on stopping distances, it is never the less extremely foolhardy to travel too close to the vehicle in front. On the odd occasion that this has happened to me, I have accelerated slightly whilst simultaneously just touched the brake pedal. The appearance of stop lights going on usually does the trick.

Here endith tonights sanctimonious drivell. Hope you are not so "Intellectially Chalenged "as not to have benefited from it!!!

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Yip-and now Im'e back. So either switch to another site or put up with my sanctimonous drivell. According to your profile and that of the 4865 post man, I can't see what qualifies you to contradict a person who has driven since early child hood and spent most of his life behind a large selection of steering wheels, both in UK and Europe. A vehicle repair man and HGV transport manager.

Right, lets try and get this straddled parking thing laid to rest. Two days prior to my seeing this thread, I had to take my baby Grandson to a medical appointment at premises I had never visited before. On arrival I noticed only four disabled bays next to the long pathway into the premises. Three of the bays were occupied by blue badge holders, the fourth was partially blocked by a bitch in a black BMW 4x4,so as to make it unusable. This bimbo was sitting there reading something attached to a clip board. The other empty spaces were at the far end of the park, it was inclimate weather, and I had to carry the wee lad all the way back into the centre. Not funny when I suffer from severe spinal disabilities. Now do you see my resentment of straddled parking??

I do understand, to a certain extent, those drivers with less experience than I. We are all humans, and our driving will reflect aspects of human nature. The ambitious person who wants to maximise his/her potential equates to the PROGRESSIVE driver. Others who are quite content to follow the flow of the stream of life are likely to drive along at whatever speed other drivers set for them.

It is also worthy of note, that the make up of the human, results in some being naturally good at some tasks that others struggle at. As a former driving instructor I saw some examples of natural DRIVERS, but many that irrespective of training, would at best,only manage to pass the Govt. driving test. This situation is understandable as it's the position I would be in if attempting to learn to play a musical instrument.!!!

TAILGATING:-John Deed said it all in his piece in "Muppets on the road". I suspect however, that some people who have been tailgated by trucks, are those lighter ones that don't come under the category of HGV and therefore are not subject to 56mph. Whilst there are no LAWS on stopping distances, it is never the less extremely foolhardy to travel too close to the vehicle in front. On the odd occasion that this has happened to me, I have accelerated slightly whilst simultaneously just touched the brake pedal. The appearance of stop lights going on usually does the trick.

Here endith tonights sanctimonious drivell. Hope you are not so "Intellectially Chalenged "as not to have benefited from it!!!

 

3 suggestions

 

1) Buy a spellchecker (or learn how to use the one you have)

 

2) Get over people who straddle across parking bays, it happens, it isn't illegal and your inane rantings are not going to achieve anything

 

3) Read up on how paragraphs work

 

Mossycat

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Yip-and now Im'e back. So either switch to another site or put up with my sanctimonous drivell.

Nah, I'll just click put you on my ignore list.

 

Here endith tonights sanctimonious drivell.

Thank Goodness for that.

 

Hope you are not so "Intellectially Chalenged

Judging by the quality of your spelling and lack of paragraphs I'd say you're the one who's challenged

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