Egg Agreement Received

[cresswell80]

Having sent DLC a cca request for an egg agreement, the issue was passed to ARC (Europe) Ltd who have now come up with (what looks like) a credit agreement.

 

When I've scanned it in I'll post on here.

 

In the meantime, assuming it is an enforceable agreement, is there a possible argument if:

- i didn't receive a default notice?

- i didn't receive a notice of assignment to either DLC or Arc??

[spamheed]

when did you request the cca?

[cresswell80]

over a year ago! just received this week. obviously i only have 10 days to respond....

[spamheed]

technically, if they haven't issued you with a default, they shouldn't be enforcing the debt as you aren't (technically) in default yet

 

were there any other DCA's involved prior to ARC who couldn't find the CCA when asked, or are ARC the first DCA who've contacted you re: this account?

[cresswell80]

yes DLC were involved before ARC and they couldn't find the CCA then a year later ARC called me out of the blue... just in the process of upping the "credit agreement"...

[spamheed]

The question which instantly comes to mind is:

 

If DLC were unable to find the enforceable CCA, why and how have ARC been able to provide it?

 

To say "be more than a little suspicious" is a major understatement.

[cresswell80]

it is strange i admit...

 

ok here's the agreement - 2 separate pages. What do people think?

 

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s55/cresswell80/EggPage1.jpg

 

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s55/cresswell80/EggPage2.jpg

[drob]

What they have sent you is not a true & executed copy of a CCA

 

I

[cresswell80]

What they have sent you is not a true & executed copy of a CCA

 

I

 

tbh i'm not 100% the 2nd page relates to the 1st page! there certainly appears to be something missing after the 1st page...

 

can you elaborate on why it's not a true & executed copy? Need to send a written response maintaining that i do not recognise the debt...

 

cheers

[drob]

Dear Sirs,

 

Account Number: XXX

 

Re; your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

I note that you have replied to the above by sending a copy of your companies current Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

 

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a "true copy" of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

 

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, "the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form." This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

 

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

 

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues

 

Yours faithfully

[cresswell80]

crikey that's a long one... but i like it! thanks for that drob.

 

just for clarity, which page are you contending is just T&C's - the first page? I think i may omit the "current" from your first paragraph of the letter body as it is dated in 2002??

[cresswell80]

ok above letter sent today... i'll let you know when/if I receive a reply...

[havinastella]

EGG always pay up.

 

You may wish to send the S.A.R letter and start to reclaim your charges.

 

Jogs

[DBY]

over a year ago! just received this week. obviously i only have 10 days to respond....

 

I'm pretty sure someone told me that if the CCA request hasnt been fulfilled, after 12 months they cannot do s***.

 

Someone with more know how may want to clarify this.

[DBY]

Dear Sirs,

 

Account Number: XXX

 

Re; your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

I note that you have replied to the above by sending a copy of your companies current Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

 

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a "true copy" of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

 

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, "the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form." This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

 

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

 

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues

 

Yours faithfully

 

Thats a good letter, although IMHO, I wouldnt tell them you'll await a true copy of the agreement. I would accept what they've sent as being an original CCA, however, it is unenforcable in a court of law. Dont tell em why.

 

Just my penny's worrth.

 

Also, how old is this debt?

[nicklea]

I'm pretty sure someone told me that if the CCA request hasnt been fulfilled, after 12 months they cannot do s***.

 

Someone with more know how may want to clarify this.

 

This isn't correct. They can enforce the agreement at anytime after they have responded to the cca request up until 6 years after you aknowledged the debt inwriting or made a payment

[cresswell80]

EGG always pay up.

 

You may wish to send the S.A.R letter and start to reclaim your charges.

 

Jogs

 

I've just calc'd from old statements that there is £80 in charges... there's always the option to reclaim these, but to be fair I suppose they would just reduce the alledged outstanding balance...

 

debt is 3-4 years old...