BB v Cabot Appeal

[pt2537]

 

- I need to get to the stage of a re-trial before I can intoduce this valuable document.

 

Why?

 

 

Ladd v Marshall deals with admitting new evidence

 

look it up

[BeauBrummie]

Hearing Result = Score Draw

 

Full appeal granted but in only very specific areas - more later.

 

Will need "Carey" case and lots more info on collection of only arrears

 

Beau

[Hadituptohere]

Congrats Beau

 

I really dont see how there getting away with claiming just the arrears, this really needs nipping in the bud

 

Hadituptohere

[gh2008]

If there is a valid agreement, then, without a valid DN, the arrears can be claimed up until the account was terminated. i.e. IMHO as soon as the creditor demands 'sums not yet due' or stops sending statements or sends a letter indicating account closure

 

That is, of course, assuming that the assignment was lawful and absolute.

 

Also assuming there were no unclaimed unlawful charges included in the lawful arrears at the time of termination.

[alangee]

Well done BB. At least that is the first hurdle over.

 

Alan

[Rhia]

Good work BB. Was it a difficult experience?

[cymruambyth]

Well done BB, good luck with the rest of your research.

[humbleman]

well done BB

[RobinWayRobinme]

Well done. Did the other side attend or were they trying to intimidate? As PT stated earlier, you can use Ladd v Marshal to aduce new evidennce, but you I believe it must be done by appliction.

 

You mention claiming arrears, are they just claiming arrears?

 

Hearing Result = Score Draw

 

Full appeal granted but in only very specific areas - more later.

 

Will need "Carey" case and lots more info on collection of only arrears

 

Beau

[RobinWayRobinme]

By the way,I'd hardly call it a score draw. You went in after getting permissu

ion to appeal and you got it. A win in my book every time.

[BeauBrummie]

Right then,

 

I thank you all for your kind words and support but....

 

I said earlier this is now very serious for me, as I really need to take heed of the words that DJ QC said to me in granting this appeal. If this goes wrong I may well end up with double the £8k + that this is already sat at.

 

I have to consider two points only from my SA to take forward into a appeal hearing as follows :

 

1) The question of the prescribed terms not appearing in the reply card which does not conform to s61. The judge asked Cabot Counsel for guidence in the case law to look for and Carey - HSBC was suggested, plus one other that I cannot remember Waksman possibly.

 

2) I have strongly put forward the case that Cabot are not just claiming the arrears but are in fact claiming the full balance as demanded only 10 days after the assignment from Barclays to Cabot. It is worth noting that the high powered barister for Cabot seemed a little muted on this point - it is my strong belief that they are weak in this argument. Of course they do have time to develop some answers now.

 

I need to possibly look into legal help as I feel this is now going to go beyond my capability and I will be out of my depth - it was very obvious that I was an LIP.

 

Judge said that I had raised some very technical arguments and in his opinion and experience these arguments would eventually be trodden down.

 

So if the site team are watching I will need guidance - my gut feeling is to go on but there are very strong reservations here.

 

It was nice to speak to someone who was prepared to listen to my reasons and arguments. It was also nice to see the high powered counsel for Cabot be shot down when he asked for surety of costs.

 

I think it was Rhia that asked about the experience - I would not say it was nice, as I was driving to the hearing I my legs felt like jelly but once I realised that the judge was prepared to listen that soon calmed me down and I got into the swing of it.

 

Beau

[vjohn82]

Right then,

 

I thank you all for your kind words and support but....

 

I said earlier this is now very serious for me, as I really need to take heed of the words that DJ QC said to me in granting this appeal. If this goes wrong I may well end up with double the £8k + that this is already sat at.

 

I have to consider two points only from my SA to take forward into a appeal hearing as follows :

 

1) The question of the prescribed terms not appearing in the reply card which does not conform to s61. The judge asked Cabot Counsel for guidence in the case law to look for and Carey - HSBC was suggested, plus one other that I cannot remember Waksman possibly.

 

2) I have strongly put forward the case that Cabot are not just claiming the arrears but are in fact claiming the full balance as demanded only 10 days after the assignment from Barclays to Cabot. It is worth noting that the high powered barister for Cabot seemed a little muted on this point - it is my strong belief that they are weak in this argument. Of course they do have time to develop some answers now.

 

I need to possibly look into legal help as I feel this is now going to go beyond my capability and I will be out of my depth - it was very obvious that I was an LIP.

 

Judge said that I had raised some very technical arguments and in his opinion and experience these arguments would eventually be trodden down.

 

So if the site team are watching I will need guidance - my gut feeling is to go on but there are very strong reservations here.

 

It was nice to speak to someone who was prepared to listen to my reasons and arguments. It was also nice to see the high powered counsel for Cabot be shot down when he asked for surety of costs.

 

I think it was Rhia that asked about the experience - I would not say it was nice, as I was driving to the hearing I my legs felt like jelly but once I realised that the judge was prepared to listen that soon calmed me down and I got into the swing of it.

 

Beau

 

I know how you must be feeling right now. Sometimes the other side can "spook" you out and make you feel as if you are running down a blind alley. The DJ hasn't helped by suggesting your "technical" arguments would be trodden down in time.

 

Remember, in your circumstances you have higher court decisions on your side which should be binding upon a lower court judge.

 

Appeals are tricky I'm sure and if you can find a pro-bono barrister then all well and good. However, it certainly is not beyond the realms of a well prepared LIP with lots of support. I'd be more than willing to attend court with you for some moral support (and the odd reminder here and there).

 

But it is ultimately up to you...

[Hadituptohere]

I'd be more than willing to attend court with you for some moral support (and the odd reminder here and there).

 

Thats one hell of an offer

[RobinWayRobinme]

Fully understand how you feel about the experience. I've been there and I know it can be very intimidating. I agree with VJ, Counsel attended to try to intimidate and frighten you with possible costs if you lose.

 

Take a couple of days to get over it and then decide what to do.

 

One point I'd pick up on is the Judge asked Counsel for otherside for guidance on case law. You will need to prepare to rubbish the Carey argument as it clearly has little bearing on enforcement by a creditor. I had the same argument thrown at me at my appeal, but they never succeeded.

 

I will help wherever I can. As I,ve said, give it a couple of days and then decide what you want to do.

R

 

Right then,

 

I thank you all for your kind words and support but....

 

I said earlier this is now very serious for me, as I really need to take heed of the words that DJ QC said to me in granting this appeal. If this goes wrong I may well end up with double the £8k + that this is already sat at.

 

I have to consider two points only from my SA to take forward into a appeal hearing as follows :

 

1) The question of the prescribed terms not appearing in the reply card which does not conform to s61. The judge asked Cabot Counsel for guidence in the case law to look for and Carey - HSBC was suggested, plus one other that I cannot remember Waksman possibly.

 

2) I have strongly put forward the case that Cabot are not just claiming the arrears but are in fact claiming the full balance as demanded only 10 days after the assignment from Barclays to Cabot. It is worth noting that the high powered barister for Cabot seemed a little muted on this point - it is my strong belief that they are weak in this argument. Of course they do have time to develop some answers now.

 

I need to possibly look into legal help as I feel this is now going to go beyond my capability and I will be out of my depth - it was very obvious that I was an LIP.

 

Judge said that I had raised some very technical arguments and in his opinion and experience these arguments would eventually be trodden down.

 

So if the site team are watching I will need guidance - my gut feeling is to go on but there are very strong reservations here.

 

It was nice to speak to someone who was prepared to listen to my reasons and arguments. It was also nice to see the high powered counsel for Cabot be shot down when he asked for surety of costs.

 

I think it was Rhia that asked about the experience - I would not say it was nice, as I was driving to the hearing I my legs felt like jelly but once I realised that the judge was prepared to listen that soon calmed me down and I got into the swing of it.

 

Beau

[cymruambyth]

BB have you PMd Shakespeare? His appeal was going forward but is now 'out of the forum'....... he may be able to give further guidance.

[BeauBrummie]

Thanks again for all your offers of help. I am taking Robin's advice and giving it some thought for a couple of days.

 

VJ - this is a most generous offer perhaps you could PM me and see if there is any mileage in it (excuse the pun). as Hadituptohere has commented one hell of an offer indeed.

 

Robin - I have printed the Carey case already and when I have time I will have proper read and try to understand a little more with that case.

 

Cymruambyth - your case mirrors this, in as much as has you have the same reply card etc so I am sure you will be watching with interest and likewise Sirfussalot I believe - I will PM Shakespeare if I decide to go ahead, still got some thinking to do.

 

One thing that is looking to be sticking point is Case Law regarding collection of arrears - I know that gazhodge has won a case against Cabot on this only last month but that is in County Court - so helpfull but not binding. Any assistance in this area would be gratefully received.

 

Thanks again to all of you:)

 

Beau

[RobinWayRobinme]

Just a quick thing to remember, going to court to collect arrears still amounts to enforcement through courts and as such still need a properly executed agreement.

R

 

Thanks again for all your offers of help. I am taking Robin's advice and giving it some thought for a couple of days.

 

VJ - this is a most generous offer perhaps you could PM me and see if there is any mileage in it (excuse the pun). as Hadituptohere has commented one hell of an offer indeed.

 

Robin - I have printed the Carey case already and when I have time I will have proper read and try to understand a little more with that case.

 

Cymruambyth - your case mirrors this, in as much as has you have the same reply card etc so I am sure you will be watching with interest and likewise Sirfussalot I believe - I will PM Shakespeare if I decide to go ahead, still got some thinking to do.

 

One thing that is looking to be sticking point is Case Law regarding collection of arrears - I know that gazhodge has won a case against Cabot on this only last month but that is in County Court - so helpfull but not binding. Any assistance in this area would be gratefully received.

 

Thanks again to all of you:)

 

Beau

[alangee]

Beau

 

Bearing in mind that Cabot are - amongst other things - demanding arrears without a DN, and also that the agreement has not been terminated, the following is on the Consumer Direct website:

 

Statements

You can request a statement at any time, showing the amounts owing under the agreement. For credit cards and other running-account credit, the lender must also send you regular statements – usually monthly. From 1 October 2008 you will be entitled to an annual statement on all credit agreements. This must contain certain minimum information – Click link for information. http://www.oft.gov.uk/advice_and_resources/resource_base/legal/cca/Postcontractinfo

Default notices

If the lender wants to enforce the agreement against you – for example because you have broken the terms of the agreement – he must send you a default notice. From 1 October 2008 this must include an OFT information sheet ["]http://www.oft.gov.uk/advice_and_resources/resource_base/legal/cca/CCA2006/information/]] highlighting your key rights and responsibilities and where to go for help or advice.

Arrears notices

If you fall behind with payments by more than a certain amount, the lender will be required to send you an arrears notice from 1 October 2008. This must include an OFT information sheet ["]http://www.oft.gov.uk/advice_and_resources/resource_base/legal/cca/CCA2006/information/]. A notice will also be required if the lender imposes a default sum – for example, because you are late with a payment.

If information is not provided

If the lender fails to provide information when he is required to under the law, he is not entitled to enforce the agreement, or to charge interest or default sums, until the correct notice has been sent. If in doubt, speak to a Consumer Direct adviser.

 

Alan

[scotsdamo]

Hi Beau

 

I came across this whilst looking for some info for my wife and whilst it dosent provide me the info im looking for it certainly made interesting reading.

 

I would just like to pass on my best wishes to you in your fight and praise you for your stubornnes in refusing to go away and continuing to tackle the problem, so often the general joe bloggs is shot down by these legal jargon bampots just in the same way bailiffs act, by making it sound like they know and they are right in exactly what they say.

 

Keep fighting and believing and you will get there i have no doubt!!!

[cymruambyth]

Hi beau did you ever take this forward?

[Scrapper]

Morning,

 

What happened with this case? Iv'e read the whole thread expecting there to be a happy outcome and it just stops.

 

Would like to know as about to start a case for my mate re Cabots

 

You can view the thread here:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?285138-My-Mate-vs-MBNA-AIC&p=3286699&highlight=#post3286699

 

Thanks

Scrapper Coco 8-)