HFO claimform - old Morgan Stanley Card Debt **WON**

[DonkeyB]

Hmmm... HFO Capital Ltd is based in the Cayman Islands. I don't think they can take you to court in the UK, but I'm sure a mod will know more about this. See my previous post - I think HFO have latched on to their error and are, possibly retrospectively, reassigning their book of debts to HFO Services which collects on behalf of HFO Capital. That's what happened to me.

[Docman]

Hmmm... HFO Capital Ltd is based in the Cayman Islands. I don't think they can take you to court in the UK, but I'm sure a mod will know more about this. See my previous post - I think HFO have latched on to their error and are, possibly retrospectively, reassigning their book of debts to HFO Services which collects on behalf of HFO Capital. That's what happened to me.

 

 

HFO Capital Ltd could take legal action in the UK, even though they are incorporated in the Cayman Islands. All they have to do is to give an 'Address for Service' in this country. Usually, a solicitors address would be fine.

[Docman]

I forgot to ask - when you acknowledged service to the court, did you also send a letter to HFO asking for details of their claims and for documentation (a CPR 18 letter)?

[broken arrow]

yes on the 20/5/08 by recorded delivery no reply as yet.

[Docman]

OK. What was the date on the N1 claim form from the court. I'm just thinking you could be coming up to the limit of filing a claim (28 days from date of service, which is taken as five days after date of issue on the form).

[broken arrow]

My defence is now submited, no response as of yet to my CPR letter and no response from Morgan Stanley for SAR.

[Docman]

So I guess its sit back and wait for the AQ to arrive from the local court.

[broken arrow]

Now 18 days still nothing from Tunbulls/HFO regarding my CPR 18 letter, requested info within 14 days.Should I now send a letter to the court informing them of this matter.

[broken arrow]

Posted to early have just received letter in the post from Turnbulls acknowledging receipt of my defence and stating they would like to me to phone them and resolve this matter.

 

They state they have also requested documentation from OC as well the deed of assignment ( should they not have this allready) and a copy of the signed CCA.

 

same stamping info and postcode as letter morgan stanley sent Notice of assignmet in (must be working out the same office?

[Docman]

I think you just have to wait until the AQ turns up from the court.

 

As regards the response, don't expect anything. They should have had the documents to prove their claim when the filed the claim. They fact that they are belated writing to say they have gone back to MS indicates they don't have anything.

[I've got no money]

I am into a claim with HFO. They have disclosed a document purporting to be an Assignment from HFO Capital to HFO Services - It is dated the 2nd January 2006 and purports to assign all purchased debts to HFO Services. It makes no reference to my account and I therefore assume it is a general document.

 

One other point on HFO Capital - as a foreign company I think that they would be unable to defend an application for security for costs not to mention possible taxation issues which is why I think that they try to transfer to hfo services

[I've got no money]

A final point - I noticed that an earlier poster indicated that you were not entitled to see the original assignment only the notice of assignment. I don't think that is actually correct. It is my understanding that once proceedings are issued you are entitled to disclosure of (amongst other things) all documents referred to in any witness statement, claim forms etc. In my case I have an Order, which they haven't complied with yet, for disclosure of the original assignments

[broken arrow]

Have requested CPR 18 disclosure 18 days ago nothing as yet , only document received what looks like a false notice of assignment.

[I've got no money]

As far as CPR disclosure is concerned - Disclosure is a formal stage in the proceedings where you disclose what documents you have and they disclose what documents they have - depending on the Courts' directions disclosure may be by list - you list all the documents you have or by copies - you give each other copies of all the documents you have - both types are accompanied by a disclosure statement confirming that everything that is relevant has been disclosed.

 

There is also usually a direction from the court which allows you to insist on being allowed to inspect the originals...

[Rhia]

I got full disclosure of an MBNA assigned to Cabot by using Part 18 of the CPR. Ask for it they will have to give it you. I would be very interested to see it as the MBNA ones were all assigned via Ireland making the assignment invalid. I have a niggling feeling that HFO may well be using their Cayman op to do the same...no taxes, nice little number. Get full disclosure and see what they send you.

[I've got no money]

I wouldn't count on them giving it to you easily - I got an Order for specific disclosure of the complete original assignment - they have just ignored the order - I've now made a further application to the court for another Order - this time that they disclose within 7 days or are struck out.

 

You need to make an application on an N244 stating that they have failed to comply with the disclosure requirements. Say that you wrote to them on (put the date) that you sent a reminder on (date) and that they failed to reply ask the court for an Order that they respond, in full, to the request for dislosure by 4pm 14 days after the making of the Order, secondly apply for further directions and finally an order for your costs - as a litigant in person you are entitled to costs - payable within 14 days of the making of the Order.

 

You apply for further directions in case you haven't, due to their non dislosure, been able to do something - e.g. file a witness statement.

[Rosie_123]

Hi brokenarrow. Just to say I am going through exactly the same thing as you with HFO right now. I received my Court papers last week. I wish you luck with everything, and will be following your progress closely.

[horw]

Hi Brokenarrow and Rosie, I am in the same boat with HFO and their sols Turnbull, have to send my defence by wednesday so waiting for some help from the mods. My CPR 18 date runs out Tuesday so should be interesting.

 

Good luck to you all, like Rosie I will be watching and learning.

[broken arrow]

Now 23 days since I requested CPR disclosure, should I wait for AQ as Docman States in earlier post or try and force the issue?

[I've got no money]

Personally I would make an application on an N244 for an order that they comply. I would not wait until the AQ -put them under pressure

[I've got no money]

Rosie123 and HorW I would be inclined to file a holding defence and also to apply for an Order (you need an n244) that they comply with your CPR requests.

[I've got no money]

Sorry to hijack the thread but here's the holding defence similar to the one that I filed on my case. It might be of some help - although realy Rosie and Horw could do with starting their own threads and posting the particulars of claim (after removing any identifying details) but leaving in the amount of the claim

 

1. The Particulars of claim are not in numbered paragraphs. I have therefore numbered the points of this defence in an order which appears to be logical.

2. The Claim form identifies the claimant as HFO Services Limited. In the Particulars of Claim the Claimant is identified as HFO Capital Limited. HFO Services Limited and HFO Capital Limited are two separate legal entities.

3. The Particulars of claim do not disclose any cause of action between me and the Claimant HFO Services Limited.

4. I admit that I entered into an agreement with Barclaycard. That Agreement was regulated under the terms of the Consumer Credit Act (The Act). I make no admissions as to whether that agreement is enforceable within the terms of The Act. I put the claimant to strict proof that the said agreement is enforceable both as of the date of its’ inception and at all times thereafter.

5. I do not admit that a Lawful Assignment of the aforesaid agreement has taken place. I put the claimant to strict proof as to such an assignment.

6. I do not admit that I have been provided with a letter of assignment. I put the claimant to strict proof thereof.

7. If, which is not admitted, the agreement is enforceable and a lawful assignment has taken place, I do not admit that I am indebted to the claimant in the sums claimed. I put the claimant to strict proof of all sums claimed.

STATEMENT OF TRUTH

I Believe that the facts stated in this Defence are True

I am the Defendant

[broken arrow]

Defence I submitted.

 

In the particulars of claim the claimant refers to a letter of assignment has been provided to the defendant previously no such document has been provided to the Defendant. The Defendant puts the Claimant to strict proof that said document in the prescribed format was delivered to the defendant

No Default Notice in the prescribed format was ever received and the Defendant puts the Claimant to strict proof that said document in the prescribed format was delivered to the defendant.

I put the claimant to strict proof that any default notice sent to me was valid. I note that to be valid, a default notice needs to be accurate in terms of both the scope and nature of breach and include an accurate figure required to remedy any such breach. The prescribed format for such document is laid down in Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561) and Amendment regulations the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) (Amendment) Regulations 2004 (SI 2004/3237)

Consequently, I deny all allegations on the particulars of claim and do not know what case I have to meet.

In an attempt to ascertain what grounds the claimant is bringing this action and to allow me to prepare my defence I requested on 20/05/2008 the disclosure of information pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules, which is vital to this case from the claimant. The information requested amounted to copies of any Credit Agreement and any default or termination notices, a transcript of all transactions, including charges, fees, interest, alleged repayments by myself and payments made by the original creditor. Also any other documents the Claimant seeks to rely on, including any default notices or termination notice, and a copy of the Notice of Assignment required to give the claimant a legitimate right of action.

To Date the claimant has ignored my request under the CPR and I have not received any such documentation requested. As a result it has proven difficult to compose this defence without disclosure of the information requested.

In view of the matters pleaded above, I respectfully request that the court gives consideration to whether the claimant’s statement of case should be struck out as disclosing no reasonable grounds for bringing the claim, and/or that it fails to comply with CPR Part 16.

Alternatively if the court decides not to strike out the claimants case, it is requested that the court orders full disclosure of the requested documents pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules.

Having instigated these proceedings without any legal basis for doing so, having failed to provide sufficient information required under the pre-trial protocols in order to investigate this claim, or indeed to provide a reasonable time period to investigate this matter, and having failed to investigate a dispute as required by the OFT Debt collection Guidelines I believe the Claimant’s conduct amounts to unlawful harassment under section 40 of The Administration of Justice Act1970. Furthermore, the Claimant’s behaviour is entirely vexatious and wholly unreasonable.

I respectfully ask the permission of the court to amend this defence when the claimant provides the above documents.

Statement of Truth

I xxxxxxxx, believe the above statement to be true and factual

XXXXXXXXXXXX

[broken arrow]

Have just looked at my claim form again and compared online, claimant HFO services Ltd, but in the POC the Claimant is HFO Capital Limited.

 

So who is actually claiming against me and is this legal.

[I've got no money]

The problem with asking the court to do something in a defence is that it never does. The court, believe it or not, doesn't actually read a claim form or a defence (until trial or until the hearing of an application or until allocation)You need to make specific applications, on an N244, for Orders for compliance with your cpr request. When you are then in a position to amend your defence you have to apply for permission (another N244), you produce a draft amended defence and attach it to an N244

 

At this stage - you've filed a defence which stops them doing anything in terms of a default judgment. As you point out in the defence you can't say much more - for an LIP its' alright - what you must do though is apply for a copy of the any assignments - not just the notice letter.

 

How much is the claim for?

 

So if I were you I would apply now for an Order that they reply to your request for particulars by 4pm 14 days from the date of the order. It is unlikely that the court will make an "unless order" at this point (that is unless they comply they are struck out). You also need to keep a record of what you've done and how long its' taken you to do it and put a claim on the N244 for costs.