1&1 hosting services - DCA's / Smith's/arvato

[ToodlePip]

Hello,

 

New here so go easy on me please

 

I received a letter from Smith's / arvato debt collection a few days ago, claiming I owe a debt of £9.07 to 1&1 hosting services. Having read up it seems I'm part of some massive financial sting on 1&1's part.

 

I would happily pay this to get them off my back but it rankles a bit so was wonderign what course of action would be recommend. The story so far:

 

After receipt of the letter, I emailed 1&1 to ask them what the debt was for. I was told that even though I had cancelled the domain names I had registered with them, I previously owed them money (from memory I think this is incorrect) Anyway, here are the emails back and forth so far:

 

Me: "

Hi there,

 

I recently received a request for payment of £9-odd. However I have cancelled all my contracts with you, and cannot login to the billing system as my username/accoutn number is no longer recognised, which confirms the cancellations.

 

Could you please provide me with either a reason for this fee, and/or the domain it relates to, as well as a means to log into the billing system to see this please?

 

Regards,

xxx

"

 

Them: "

Just to confirm we have been unable to debit your last invoice and have

sent two notifications to warn you of the issue.

 

There are some outstanding balances from before the account was

terminated, which went to collections.

 

Unfortunately this query cannot be dealt with by 1and1, as your account

details have been passed over to AFS Finance, our collection agency.

 

Please telephone them directly on 0870125 8809

 

PLEASE NOTE - Even if your current payment details are valid we are

technically unable to debit the card supplied so please do not contact

us to arrange payment.

Payment will need to be made to AFS and it will take between 24-48 hrs

from time of card payment to AFS to reactivate your 1and1 account.If

payment has been made to AFS and the card details in your 1and1 control

panel have expired they will need to be updated for your 1and1 account

to be unlocked.

 

Cheque payment could take 7-14 days to clear, upon successful clearance

– your account will be activated.

 

Once the amount has been paid to AFS any general account queries will be

dealt with thereafter by sending an email to [email protected]

 

Thank you for your co-operation in this matter.

"

 

Bear in mind the name of the dca is different, and this is unsigned.

 

Me: "

That wasn't what I was asking you. AFS Finance (which is wrong by the

way, arvato is correct) haven't told me what the domains are. That's

what I would like to know.

 

Also, You DIDN'T send me any notifications of missed payments. Please forward me these with dates and I'll check my records

."

 

Them: "

Dear xxxxxx, (Cust: xxxxxxx)

 

Thank you for your email.

 

This is to inform you that the outstanding balance is for the following

domain names.

 

ixxxx.info

nxxx.co.uk

nxx.org.uk

cxxx.co.uk

dixxxx.co.uk

dxxxx.co.uk

xx.me.uk

xxx.co.uk

 

Reminders were sent to you regarding the outstanding balance to the

contact details we have on record for you.

 

If you have any further questions do not hesitate to contact us.

 

 

 

Kind regards

Nxxx Mxxx

Billing Department

1&1 Internet Ltd.

"

 

Me: "

Hi Nxxx

 

I cancelled all of these before they were up for

renewal, and at that point i didn't owe 1&1 any money, so I don't

see where this charge is coming from. I totally deny this charge is

owed until you supply an invoice by email, or at the very least allow

me to view my billing account so that I can view the invoice online as

I use to BEFORE I CANCELLED. none of these domains are currently

registered, and when I try to log into your admin panel, I'm told my

account number doesn't exist. I fail to see what I'm being charged for.

 

 

Regards,

Bxxx

"

 

them: "

xxxxxxxxxxx

Dear , (Cust: )

 

Thank you for your email.

 

This is to inform you that you have cancelled these domains, however the

cancellation took place after the renewal.

 

If you have any further questions do not hesitate to contact us.

 

 

 

Kind regards

Nxxxx Mxxxxxx

Billing Department

1&1 Internet Ltd.

"

 

Me: "

Dear Nxxxx Mxxxxx,

 

I do not ackowledge this debt. Please

provide me with relevent dated invoices. Unless you are trying to steal

from me? This isn't clear.

 

Please email me the relevent invoices

for everything you claim I owe you, or provide access to your online

billing system so that I may view these invoices online. I'm sure you

understand that without being able to view any kind of information, you

may as well be a beggar in the street claiming I owe you money.

 

In

conclusion, please provide me with invoices for the sum(s) you claim I

owe you within the next 7 days to this email address, or access to an

online billing system I can view these online. At present the situation

that I can see is that you are attempting to bill me for services that

have not been provided.

 

Regards,

Bxxxxx

"

 

 

What next? Did I push it a bit far with the last email? And the DCA letter says I will be charged £150+ if i don;t treply within the next 14 days. DShould I? Are there any templates I can use?

 

Many thanks!

 

i forgot to mention - the address they have on file for me is incorrect so there is a delay in me getting the debt letters the dca is sending, if at all. (post code is correct but they botched the data input) Shoudl I correct this? My gut says no cos then it shouldn't affect my credit rating, right?

 

Bump... Can anyone give me an idea of how to proceed please?

 

Anyone?

[ODC]

Personally I would ignore the DCA. If you do want to correspond with them keep it short.

 

Dear Idiots

 

This alleged debt is in serious dispute with 1&1. They have failed to provide me with any proof such debt exists. Whilst the matter remains in dispute I will NOT be entering int ANY correspondence with you

 

If you do not understand this letter I suggest you seek Legal Advice.

 

 

 

As the debt is only for 9 quid it will soon be uneconomical for the DCA to keep chasing you.

[ToodlePip]

Thanks so much ODC. 1%1 seem to refuse to provide me with any invoices to prove this debt exists so I'll just carry on pestering them. In a pityful attempt at being conciliatory they have apparently informed arvato to wave the late fee (which wasn't mentioned in the arvato letter anyway) but I'll carry on bothering them.

 

Do you think the lack of correct address is good or bad? If heaven forbid they do serve a CCJ would it affect my credit rating as it isn't an address I have ever lived or am associated with?

[ODC]

A CCJ for 9 quid. I dont think so. I had similar problems with 1&1 a couple of years ago. They disappeared.

[ToodlePip]

From what I can tell, they are trying to claim payment for renewals that were madejust before I cancelled. I've told them that I do not ackowledge the debt, until they have provided invoices in the first instance (which they are refusing to do) and that I accept them to be true. I have also told them that since I am contesting this debt I will not be entering into communication with arvato, and that if they claim they renewed my domains, they are charging me for goods that haven't been provided as none of the domains are currently registered, so can't have been renewed.

 

There were about 9 domain names, so potentially there could be further small sums, including a couple of .infos so it could be more, but again they are refusing to tell me anything and just asking me to contact arvato. I've asked them for all sum(s) they claim I owe them in an attempt to figure out the extent of their attempted theft. Is this a matter I can report to the police? or a regulatory body? (given that the domains weren't registered but they still want payment?)

[ODC]

I really dont think this is a police matter, merely poor administration by 1&1. If you have checked with the likes of Nominet UK and the websites are NOT registered in your name then I find it difficult to see how 1&1 can invoice you for them

[ToodlePip]

S'what I thought. I'll just keep telling them the same thing over and over again until they leave me alone then, and ignore the DCA. thanks ODC!

[bigandyuk1]

With the debt standing at £9 they can't do much chasing before it becomes uneconomical to bother with you any more ??

 

Regards

Bigandy

[ToodlePip]

Further developments... turns out that although I submitted the cancellation forms prior to the end of the "lease" on the domains, they maintain that invoices had been issued prior to the cancellations. I am querying all of this.

 

There are 6 invoices, for sums varying between £4 and £15. So probably a total of £50 odd quid, but it seems Arvato are pursuing them as seperate sums. Does all the above advice about it being small sums still apply? or could they package them up into one and then it might not be such a good idea ot ignore? As I've said I've only received one DCA letter so far, but this is probably because they don;t have the correct address for me and the letter was forwarded. So there are probably other letters floating around.

[ODC]

They are seperat alleged debts so the cannot package them into one debt.

[ToodlePip]

That's great. I'll just play difficult. They seem to stop responding to emails around 1pm so I've forwarded the last one back at them and to the complaints email address. They had the cheek to email me asking what i thought of their customer service so i told them then email it back to complaints+billing asking if they were having a laugh.

[Strangerinastrangeland]

Hi,

I am also having trouble with 1&1 Avarto finance and Smiths I am pretty sure they are all the same pseudo-criminal organisation.

I had a one year only hosting contract with 1&1 paid for by credit card in advance, I did not intend to renew since in fact I had taken it out on someone else's behalf.

 

They did what I understand is a fairly common trick of theirs try to take payment from a credit card automatically for hosting without prior notification but since the credit card in question had been lost or stolen in the post it had been cancelled.

Their terms and conditions state that a contract exists between the client and 1&1 when payment has been given and received. In this case when payment was not given there was no contract for a second year.

The first I knew that there was a problem was when they informed me that they had automatically renewed and I now owed them £23 pounds odd plus £15 fees of the debt collectors arvato if I didn't pay up within 15 Days but the letter only arrived with four days to spare!

I went through an elaborate cancellation proceedure within the time they proscribed but they delayed the cancellation until after the payment was supposedly due. At the most if I did owe them anything it would be this overrun, which I would have been grudgingly willing to pay, however I stubbornly refuse to give in when I have been given no chance to negotiate or otherwise or have any intelligent feedback from these idiots / crooks who simply demand money in a three stage process in escalating amounts.

I am now up to the stage where 'Smiths' is demanding £150!

 

So let them take me to court! I will be happy to attend and defend myself against a bunch of shysters. It has to be the county court of my choice not theirs so I shall choose the one in my area.

Smiths and arvato seem to be at the same address.

Smiths communication is signed rather tellingly Smiths!

[asterion]

Hi,

I am also having trouble with 1&1 Avarto finance and Smiths I am pretty sure they are all the same pseudo-criminal organisation.

I had a one year only hosting contract with 1&1 paid for by credit card in advance, I did not intend to renew since in fact I had taken it out on someone else's behalf.

 

They did what I understand is a fairly common trick of theirs try to take payment from a credit card automatically for hosting without prior notification but since the credit card in question had been lost or stolen in the post it had been cancelled.

Their terms and conditions state that a contract exists between the client and 1&1 when payment has been given and received. In this case when payment was not given there was no contract for a second year.

The first I knew that there was a problem was when they informed me that they had automatically renewed and I now owed them £23 pounds odd plus £15 fees of the debt collectors arvato if I didn't pay up within 15 Days but the letter only arrived with four days to spare!

I went through an elaborate cancellation proceedure within the time they proscribed but they delayed the cancellation until after the payment was supposedly due. At the most if I did owe them anything it would be this overrun, which I would have been grudgingly willing to pay, however I stubbornly refuse to give in when I have been given no chance to negotiate or otherwise or have any intelligent feedback from these idiots / crooks who simply demand money in a three stage process in escalating amounts.

I am now up to the stage where 'Smiths' is demanding £150!

 

So let them take me to court! I will be happy to attend and defend myself against a bunch of shysters. It has to be the county court of my choice not theirs so I shall choose the one in my area.

Smiths and arvato seem to be at the same address.

Smiths communication is signed rather tellingly Smiths!

 

They seem to be part of the Berstelmann group. The same people who bother you to join their book clubs and then trying to scare you when you don't buy enough books.

 

I have recently received a few letters too. I was also trapped in the cumbersome cancellation procedure. I originally spoke to someone at 1&1 and they acknowledged they would cancel the hosting contract. This never happens. I was then told that I needed to move the domain names into a fresh contract as cancelling the hosting contract would also cancel my domain registrations (even if not due for renewal). I did this and supposedly the hosting contract had been cancelled. Later on I started receiving Arvato letters, trying to charge me for the whole year, despite having run for only 10-12 days or so without my consent. Before that I had emailed 1&1 to tell them that I would not be updating my credit card details, as it continued to be valid (at the time it was on block) and that I only authorised them to charge me for the couple of quid tops that I had used of my contract. They told me that I would need to pay the whole amount and then ask for a refund. I then threatened them with taking them to Trading Standards for trying to obtain money by deceipt. 1&1 never answered back and then the "debt" was passed on to to Arvato.

 

Can you tell me if they stopped bothering you?

[palomino]

Sorry, I hadn't joined CAG when this thread happened so wasn't aware of it.

 

I'd had trouble with 1&1 during one renewal so during the course of the following year year I transferred my domains to an alternate registrar. Then, at the next renewal, although they sent me an invoice I told them I was cancelling my contract. They did send me invoices but I was able to ignore them and haven't heard from them since.

 

Not very likeable people. They only have a premium rate telephone number which goes straight into a queue which they take about 20 minutes to answer. Seem unable to listen or comprehend what you are saying.

Avoid them.

 

Incidentally I could name the other registrar (who have been entirely satisfactory) but I'm not allowed to post advertising on CAG.

[Strangerinastrangeland]

Hi Asterion,

In answer to your question I have not heard from them again, their main tactic in the end is to threaten your credit status will be damaged by a county court judgement so you had better pay up.

The girl at 'arvato' starts off with this tack, you just pay us then ask for a refund, then when you say no, she acts suprised and says 'oh dear that will damage your credit history'.

Next they send more letters 'pay up or it's 'smiths for you!'

with a threat to send around a debt collector.

To which I replied OK if you do I'll call the police, (because without a county court judgement they can't legally send anyone).

Finally the dreaded letter from 'smiths' saying "pay up, a county court judgement will cost you £150 but if you pay us directly now you won't have the judgement damaging your credit rating" this communication had no address just a po box and no personal signature and it looked like it had come off a fax machine. That was in May, since then I haven't heard from them.

Ignore them I don't think they could ever mount a case yet alone win it.

They would have no evidence or reliable witnesses, it would be a total joke. My advice would be don't pay them anything and don't even waste your time replying to any of their letters, don't even bother to pick up your phone.

Grit your teeth fight back the panic attacks and don't give in.

Hope this helps

[asterion]

Thanks. I already had the dodgy Smiths letter. I will ignore them. If they keep bothering me, I will call Trading Standards.

[rosered22]

Hi guys, I know this post was in 2008, but I'm hoping that some of you are still around!

Having trouble with 1%1 myself...

I had a contract for a year with them, then received an email in Sep 2010 saying that the renewal was due in Oct 2010 for £16.95. I replied to them straight away saying that I did not wish them to renew my account and that I would be canceling the direct debit.

I thought that would be the matter over with and didn't realise that there was a long winded cancellation procedure. When they wrote to me again saying that my direct debit had been declined and I owed them for another year I gave them a call and then went through the big long online cancellation procedure.

The account is now definitely gone and I can no longer log on, but I just got another email saying that my direct debit details have been changed (????) and the next payment will be taken in November for £8.95....

I've no idea what this new payment is, and they're still threatening to refer me to debt collectors for the £16.95.

 

Did anything else happen with yours? Is my position more shaky? Does anyone else know anything about 1%1

[Strangerinastrangeland]

Hi Rosered22,

No nothing happened.

Do not give in they just want to scare some more money out of you.

The way they behave is borderline criminality and they know it.

Just ignore them don't reply and don't worry about it, they rely on panicking you into compliance.

They don't have a hope of winning any case against you in any court.

Rgds,

Strangerinastrangeland

[LionTeeth]

Hi Rosered22 and all

 

Thanks for this posting cos I too have received a letter from Arvato, and this 2nd one has upped the amount say I owe to 1 and 1 Limited, because of late payment!!

I had (i thought) cancelled my contract over a year ago now, and moved my domain name to another registra, and hosting company.

 

But 1 and 1 said I didn't cancel properly, and i was still being charged for their service! What service I said, I no longer have my login details as I haven't used them for over a year!

Now the Arvato letter is threatening me that they will instruct solicitors to contact me, or send their local collection agents to visit me personally!

 

Any advice would be appreciated, as this to me seems like none other than bully boy tactics which I hate!

Trying not to show my lion teeth!

 

Is there anyway we can all raise this to the public eye in any way about how 1 and 1 Ltd are treating their customers by using bully boy and seemingly underhand tactics to claim money from people?

 

Peace, love and freedom to the people.

[piemandan]

This thread might be a couple of years old.. but it's happened to me today.

 

Basically I tried to cancel 1&1 using their extremely difficult cancelation process - It didn't work because it kept telling me that I didn't have the authority to do that.

 

I emailed them on numerous occasions stating this and they emailed me back generic responses. I contacted them again back in December 2011 and told them to cancel my account now or I will, via the direct debit linked to my account.

 

They did nothing - even going as far as ignoring my emails. So I canceled my direct debit.

 

Now Arvato have sent me a letter for the supposed money owed and a late cancelation fee - 12 pounds 36 to be precise.

 

Of course there is no way I'm paying anything to anybody and I have told them this - but calling a 'late cancelation fee' when my account only expired 2 weeks ago is pushing it - I canceled it in December!

 

Just thought I'd highlight the fact 1&1 are continuing to pursue this line of business and thus I would advise any potential customers to steer clear.

[756boxer]

So let them take me to court! I will be happy to attend and defend myself against a bunch of shysters. It has to be the county court of my choice not theirs so I shall choose the one in my area.

Smiths and arvato seem to be at the same address.

Smiths communication is signed rather tellingly Smiths!

 

My thoughtys and feelings exactly, how they are still getting away with such sharp practices, I've seen the same complaint5s goingt bac k to 2006 at least, I believe,

[picard1959]

Arvarto are complete and total planks, ie solid and very thick!

 

I too have had this [problem] from 1&1 internet for a one years service which i never used, cancelled a week after i bought it and paid for it. No money given back but now want to charge me for another year for a domain I own and is hosted with another company, I have politley told them and written to them soooo many times telling them to stick it somewhere dark and painfull. they ignore emails ignore telephone conversations and I have just told them gain over the phone " Go on then take me to court, I iwll without hesitation counter sue you for my wasted time by the minute.!"

The answer was, " so are you saying your not paying sir"

 

Really, is it me or did I miss something?????

Theses DCA idiots who do not follow any rules need locking up.

[ninjaskrtel]

I know this is a really old thread but I've had the same problem.

 

I've been a customer of 1and1 since 2006. At one point i had over 50 domains with them. BUT, because of their crap customer service, I've not renewed many or swapped registrar.

 

I actually cancelled one domain and still got an invoice for it. Something to do with the don't accept cancellations within 7 days of the renewal date. It's gone to their credit company for £9.00

 

I'm locked out of the 1and1 account. There are a pile of domains in the account that I now cannot cancel. So I've sent 1and1 this email:

This is official notification that I want my account closed and no further domains renewed.

 

 

I cannot log into the account, you won't let me log into the account, so therfore please cancel all the renewals and all domains and delete my details from the system

 

 

I expect a reply within 48 hours stating that:

 

 

ALL DOMAINS ARE SET TO CANCEL.

 

NO DOMAINS WILL NOT BE RENEWED

 

MY PERSONAL DETAILS ARE ERADICATED FROM YOUR SYSTEM

 

1AND1 WILL NOT CONTACT ME AGAIN AFTER CONFIRMATION.

 

 

Failure to comply will result in a complaint to both Nominet and Trading Standards

.

 

A customer of 9 years and they lose my business because they claim they cannot accept domain cancellation 7 days before renewal.

 

I've had emails from their debt collection agency as my address details and phone number have changed since i first signed up and I never updated them so they can only contact me through email.

 

I told them to do one.

 

I will update if anything comes of this.

[Echodale]

I am a NOMINET registrar, a dot UK domain name can be revoked after renewal (even if the domain is set to auto renew). If a customer does not pay for renewal then we simply do not renew, it costs the registrar nothing so not sure what they would claim in court, I suppose it could be argued an admin fee for revoking an auto renewal but everything else is automated.