Can someone tell me what this document means?

[d3v]

Hello everyone.

 

I sent the Subject-Action_request form 40 days ago and today I recieved this document which is the list of bank charges I've had over the years. The thing is, which columns can I claim back? For clairty (picture is poor), the columns and totals are as follows...

 

COMMISSION: £330

COMMOSSION REFUND: £175

CREDIT INTEREST: £10.21

DEBIT INTEREST: £5.56

FEES: £105

TAX ON CREDIT INTEREST: £2.55

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also this question has been asked about 6 times through out the Cooperative Bank thread on Martin Lewis' Money Saving Expert website here Co-operative Bank-reclaiming bank charges - MoneySavingExpert.com Forums

 

Not one of the 6 posts got an answer. ffs!

 

 

So does anyone here know which of the columns I can claim for? Thanks in advance.

Edited May 7, 2008 by d3v

[phatram]

In my opinion, no.

I recently received a similar thing for my Coop credit card.

Perhaps being "the ethical bank" (ha ha ha ha ha ) they are trying to save a tree?

[d3v]

In your opinion what exactly?

 

And what did you end up claiming for on the list if anything yet?

[phatram]

Well, they are s'posed to send you all info they hold about you etc not just 1 piece of paper.

And I will be claiming for overlimit charges, late fees and any other unlawful charge they've charged me.

[d3v]

Yeah I understand this crappy document is a stalling tactic, but al lthe bank charges are on here which is all I need anyway.

 

I've been searching a lot and I've found out that you can claim back the the commission field and the fees field too.

 

So just to clarify, in my case that would be a total of £435?

 

 

And I've also heard that you have to deduct the commission refund field off from the total, which would make it 435 minus 175 = £260? .... or am I over-complicating things?

 

FFS.

[Michael Browne]

which would make it 435 minus 175 = £260?

Yes, that seems to make sense to me

[d3v]

Ok thanks, but do you possibly have anything to confirm that for me? a post or something you could link to...

 

Actually, what is the procedure to get my hands on the complete information? I don't think I've been refunded £175 worth of bank charges (they call em commission) over the years. It's more like £100.

 

I'm suspicious of the accuracy of this document.

Edited May 8, 2008 by d3v

[Michael Browne]

Ok thanks, but do you possibly have anything to confirm that for me? a post or something you could link to...

 

 

Personally, no since I don't bank with the Co-op, but there are plenty of examples in the Co-op forum eg this thread:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/coop-smile-successes/83448-bolton1-co-operative-bank-3.html

You can claim for commission less commission refunded and fees less fees refunded, I wouldn't bother with the debit interest as it's impossible to work out which percentage of it relates to the penalty charges and doesn't really amount to much anyway. Also you need to look out for unusual amounts in the commission column as these could be where you have used your card abroad and these could be transaction fees which also need to be deducted. In the fees column if you have a privilege account you also pay an amount each month for that typically ranging between £6 and £8.50 as it has gone up over the years, these also nedd to be deducted, they are not always explicit and if you have some fees at the same time as the privilege accouont money comes out they will be lumped together.

 

Actually, what is the procedure to get my hands on the complete information? I don't think I've been refunded £175 worth of bank charges (they call em commission) over the years. It's more like £100.

 

I'm suspicious of the accuracy of this document.

 

You will have to write back with a SAR non-compliance letter. See Template 1 here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/6986-data-protection-act-non.html

[d3v]

Yup I have already read Boltons posts but they are too brief to be of complete use.

 

So again, I need confirmation on weather to either:

 

deduct the "commission refund" from the "commission + fees total" or simply leave it out of the equation altogether.

 

Deduct from total or leave it out?

 

You will have to write back with a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) non-compliance letter. See Template 1 here:

Data Protection Act - Non-Compliance - Template Letters

Thanks dude, but isn't template 2 for me since the 40 days are up.

 

Anyway that template is too generalized to use... I'm guessing for my case, this is about as far as I can go to complete it....

 

 

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

Section 7 – Data Protection Act 1998

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

Account: xxxxxxxx

 

I am in receipt of the documents that you have supplied in response to my Data Protection Act information request dated (06/05/08). The disclosure of personal data is incomplete in that at least the following documents are missing.

 

a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my banking history with your organisation. Alternatively, a complete set of statements for that period will be acceptable. Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my banking business with you.

 

1) You have failed to provide a complete list of transactions and charges.(WTF - why is this here? isn't the purpose to get a compelte history of our accounts????????) 2) You have provided no notes, or documents relating to any legal action between you and myself. 3) You have provided no notes, or documents relating to instances of manual intervention.

 

This is not an exhaustive list by any means, it is just an example of some of the information I am missing.

Accordingly, I have to tell you that you have not yet complied with your obligations under the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

The time for compliance with my request has now expired. If you do not comply fully with my Subject Access Request within 7 days, I shall apply to the County Court for an order to enforce compliance, together with damages at the discretion of the court.

Yours faithfully,

 

 

[name]

Edited May 8, 2008 by d3v

[Michael Browne]

Deduct from total or leave it out?

Doesn't matter either way. If you deduct from total, it shows that you have taken refunds into account.

Anyway that template is too generalized to use...

That's why they're called templates, you amend them to your situation

 

I have no idea what to put in myself.

 

Here's an example list of things you acn ask for:

 

 

• A true copy of the contract on opening the above account with you
  
• A true copy of the original Terms and Conditions applicable at the inception of the above account (which supports and forms the original contract/agreement)
  
• True copies of any notes, logs, transcripts, letters received or sent and memos
  
• True copies of any legal notices served, along with information (and true copies of supporting documents) of any legal action taken or pending
  
• Details of any disclosures made regarding me to any third party
  
• Any and all information held regarding me what-so-ever, on any relevant filing system regardless of media type
  
• Confirmation of your actual losses or a breakdown of your genuine pre-estimate of costs incurred for each charge applied, and to which Term or Condition this charge has been levvied
  
• Details of any and all manual intervention required to administer this account, and the proportional actual losses incurred in doing so
  
• Where information is no longer available, I require a statement confirming how any information has been disposed of, removed, destroyed and the method of doing so, by whom, when and where.
  
• Duplicate statements for the life of the account, or any hard copy print out of same showing all transactional activity on the account.
  

[d3v]

Doesn't matter either way. If you deduct from total, it shows that you have taken refunds into account.

 

Sorry, but how can it possibly not matter when there is potentially £260 to be gained or lossed depending on the answer???

 

 

 

 

 

Ok I suppose I only need the last one in that bulleted list...

 

 

• Duplicate statements for the life of the account, or any hard copy print out of same showing all transactional activity on the account.
  

 

But what do I add in this part... ?

1) You have failed to provide a complete list of transactions and charges.(Add details of missing period - or a transaction that you know about which is not included)

 

also can I delete the next 2 becuase I don'tt hink I need them...

2) You have provided no notes, or documents relating to any legal action between you and myself.

 

3) You have provided no notes, or documents relating to instances of manual intervention.

Edited May 8, 2008 by d3v

[pompeyfaith]

Ive had a successful claim with the co-op and i got commission and fees back plus contractual interest and statutory interest at 8% looking at yours it is indeed £260 but dont forget to add the interest onto your claim

[d3v]

Hey guys I'm back. This whole thing looked like it came to a dead-end so I just gave up but I'm back now with a vengeance, lol.

 

So now pompeyfaith has kindly confirmed it is indeed £260 that I can claim back, I now am at the "letter before action" stage.

 

There is one problem though. Due to the information contained, or should I say lack of information contained in the SAR document they sent me, I am unable to properly fill-out the "SCHEDULE OF CHARGES" excel spreadsheet becuase the document they sent me has no indication of the dates and details of each bank charge. You can see this at the first post of this thread above.

 

Here is what I am tlaking about...

 

 

 

 

 

So my question is, do I NEED to know the date each bank charge occured or can I simply state that by looking at the document they sent me in repsonse to my SAR that I am owed £260 in total and that's it??

If so, how would I word this in to a document, ect?

 

 

THANKS IN ADVANCE

[pompeyfaith]

when i got my money back I had the same document from them that you have, I just used the dates in the first column. So the dates in the first column of document put into the date incurred on the spreadsheet

 

Regards

 

Pompeyfaith

[pompeyfaith]

send your LBA letter off with the spreadsheet they have 14 days to respond allowed 17 days in total taking delivery times into consideration send it off recorded and get a receipt of the time posted I'm may case they paid out on the 10th day but as its all up in arms at the moment your likely outcome is that it will be put on hold until the banks know the outcome of the judges decision.

 

hope this is of help if so click my scales

 

Regards

 

Pompeyfaith

[d3v]

pompey thanks for your further help. The date section of course... I don't know how that alluded me. Duh! Anywhow, I have made good progress, or atleast I think I have!

 

 

Using the information in the document they sent me, I have filled in the spreadsheet to the specification that I hope is satisfactory.

Please could you and anyone else view my spreadsheet in this link HERE[/url] and compare the data I added to what is presented in the document they sent me HERE and tell me if I have made any mistakes. I am perticulary concerned with the way I worded the descriptions of the charges under the "IN RESPECT OF COLUMN". Are those two names adequate and correct?

 

If not, please either tell me what to put in their place or edit the document yourself. Yes google docs is awesome!

 

Also I have read many times that claiming for the 8% APR interest is quite hit and miss? Would they refusing to pay the interest jeapordize my whole claim process or will they follow through with paying me the total sum minus the 8% APR interest? If not then would it be wise to delete the 8% APR interest column, thus leaving it out of the total sum?

 

 

 

but as its all up in arms at the moment your likely outcome is that it will be put on hold until the banks know the outcome of the judges decision.

Damm, I thought that ended without conclusion some time ago. Okay, any idea when an outcome will be reached??

 

 

 

Okay guys if you can help me with these questions then I think I will finally be armed with all the knowledge I will need! Cheers. Pompey repped on recharge!

Edited July 16, 2008 by d3v

[pompeyfaith]

Check the Spreadsheet for u and well done exactly how i sent mine

 

Now i would leave the 8% interest added and claim it that is what a judge would order they pay if it went to court which i doubt bear in mind also that the 8% is less than the interest they would of charged you if the account was O/D so they would settle for that it would not jeopardise your claim as they will sent you an offer anyway remember they have taken that money from you unfairly and gained from it

 

Regards

 

Pompeyfaith

[d3v]

Brilliant thanks dude. I've deleted the 8% inerest and edited the grand total acordingly.

 

The spreadsheet is done now it's jsut my LBA letter. I am pretty sure this would be acceptable but I'd like a confirmation from you or anyone...

 

 

My request

I am writing to ask you to refund to me the charges which you have levied from my account over the last 4 years.

 

I now understand that the regime of fees which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law and contrary to consumer regulations. If you say that they are not, then will you please demonstrate this by letting me have a full breakdown of the costs to which you have been put by as a result of my breaches, in order to reassure me that your charges really do reflect your costs.

 

Additionally, it has now been confirmed that your particularly high level of penalties are considered to be unfair per se by the OFT who reported on the 5th April 2006 and are therefore presumed to be unlawful in the absence of specific proof to the contrary.

 

Your responsibilities

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise.

 

I consider that your repeated representations that your charges are fair and reasonable are deceptive and that they have deceived me into agreeing to pay them.

Your concealment of the true nature of your charges has prevented me from asserting my right until now.

 

What I require

I calculate that you have taken £260.00.

I enclose a schedule of the charges which I am claiming with this letter.

 

My targets to resolve this matter

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you will prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

 

I will give you 14 days to reply to me accepting, unconditionally, my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive payment.

 

If you dispute that I am entitled to a refund of these charges, I request that you forward within the above mentioned time scale, a copy of the Terms and Conditions that were in force at the time my account was opened, and any subsequent amendments to those Terms and Conditions. These are requested under CPR Pre-Action Protocol 4.6©, and failure to provide them will be brought to the attention of the court, should it be necessary to commence a county court action.

 

If you do not respond, or you do not respond positively, within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect. I believe that these targets are more than sufficient for a large company such as yours with dedicated staff and departments.

 

After that, there will be no further communication from me and I shall issue a claim at the expiry of the second deadline.

 

 

 

 

 

Yours faithfully,

Edited July 16, 2008 by d3v

[pompeyfaith]

yup thats brill, but why have you deleted the 8% claim it aswell like i said if it goes to court the judge would award you that

 

In your eyes they have borrowed that money from you so interest should be added

[d3v]

yup thats brill, but why have you deleted the 8% claim it aswell like i said if it goes to court the judge would award you that

 

In your eyes they have borrowed that money from you so interest should be added

 

ok let me get this straight, my case can go two ways; the court stage in which case i will get the 8% interest, and the other way where they give me an out of court settlement which will not include the 80% itnerest?

 

Either way I leave the column in the spreadsheet?

 

 

One thing though, whats the story behind the "NUMBER OF DAYS SINCE THE OFFENSE" about? Does it eman from the date they applied the bank charge to the day today as set on my current computers time or some other date? Confusing!!

[Michael Browne]

Does it eman from the date they applied the bank charge to the day today as set on my current computers time or some other date? Confusing!!

Yes it's the number of days since the charge to the day on which you compiled the s/s. It takes the date from the date on your computer, and every time you open the s/s it updates the days since and the 8% to todays date

[d3v]

ok great, thanks for clearing that up.

 

do u think my preliminary request letter is wored correctly?

 

cheers.

[Michael Browne]

Looks fine to me.

[d3v]

thanks for all your help to everyone. reps will be given and now I'm glad I can finally send this crap.

 

cheers.

[pompeyfaith]

yup leave the 8% on the spreadsheet as they could pay that as well out of court either way they will send you a settlement letter and if the 8% is not on there you will not get.

 

NUMBER OF DAYS SINCE THE OFFENCE is days from the time they applied the charge to the day you post the S.A.R off so you will need to check that is right if you filled the spreadsheet in yesterday say it is now 1 day out.

 

Hope this clarifies for you