Claim form issued but still no CCA received

[Cat Woman]

Hope someone may be able to help.

In summary we're being pursued for a 12 year old debt (personal loan) which was originally with LTSB and over the years has been sold on to various DCA's, currently ending up with Arrow Global whose agents for collection are Eversheds. As it is so old we are unsure of what payments/charges, etc have been applied to the debt.

 

We sent the statutory CCA request off back in March, with copies to Eversheds. Now after 40+ days nothing has arrived in the form of this. We were paying towards the debt but were advised by National Debtline that we were within our rights to withold payment in view of no CCA, which we did this month. Eversheds insist they don't need this and that "there'll be one in court for us to see". Low and behold, today we received a court claim form which we're intending to defend on the grounds of no CCA.

 

My question is: Will this claim form definitely lead to a court hearing or do the creditors have a chance to decide not to proceed before this. Also, can I add that the sole reason for them wanting to obtain a CCJ is to get a charging order on our house - that is their only interest.

 

Many thanks for any help.

[maroondevo52]

Hi, Catwoman.

 

Surely this debt is Statute Barred.....

 

IHTM28384 - Law relating to debts: statute-barred debts

If a lender allows time to pass without receiving any payment an action for recovery may become barred.

 

Under the Limitations Act 1980 the time limits are

 

in simple contracts, 6 years

in contracts under seal, 12 years.

If the debtor acknowledges the debt in writing or makes a part payment within the original limitation period, then the time limits start to run again from the date of acknowledgement or the date of payment.

 

Even though the lender may be barred from pursuing recovery, a debtor may decide to pay the debt after the expiry of the time limits. Because of this you should allow a debt which is otherwise statute-barred if the personal representatives pay the debt and you receive evidence that the payment has been made.

 

The above instructions do not apply to debts in Scotland. Under Scottish law, if a lender allows time to pass without receiving any payment an action for recovery may become barred under the Prescription and Limitation (Scotland) Act 1973. (For details of this Act see Gloag and Henderson 10th edition at Chapter 15.). These debts are completely extinguished and cannot be enforced. Once the prescriptive period expires the debt cannot be allowed as a deduction.

 

 

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[Cat Woman]

Thank you Maroondevo52,

 

Unfortunately (as we did not know about this excellent forum until recently) I don't think the debt will be statute barred. There's never been more than a year's interval gone by when we haven't paid something (hence re-starting the ball rolling again unwittingly - Doh!). As we have no CCA we have no idea how much the original debt was, what we've paid, etc - neither do we know if it was in joint names or otherwise, so this is what we're going to use as our defence.

 

Would you recommend getting a professional solicitor - I know it will cost us - but anything's better than a charging order. I think the claim form is pretty straightforward but just wondering whether a pro might do it better.

[vselym]

CatWoman

 

no need for a solicitor

 

did you send your CCA request by recorded delivery and do you have proof of posting ?

 

If you do, then the failure to provide a copy provides a total defence against enforcement !

 

firstly complain to the OFT

 

secondly SAR LTSB stating that you require ALL data they hold, and that merely fobbing you off with the last six years will not suffice, and if they dont comply youll see them in court. You need this info as no dca will hold it, and this debt will just get passed around. The CCA request you have sent will not give you the info you need as to when/where/how much the debt is

 

If eversheds were to proceed and then produce a CCA at court the judge would be less than pleased and you would almost certainly be granted a set aside

[Goldlady]

And yes they can withdraw the claim before it gets to court. You now need to ask for a copy of the CCA under the civil procedure rules - it is too late at night for me to find the relevant letters but if you look at the threads I started under my username regarding GE you might find what you need.

[vselym]

Morning CatWoman

 

you may also want to fire this letter off aswell

 

**Edit to suit**

 

 

Account In Dispute

 

Ref:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On the **DATE** I wrote to you requesting a copy of the credit agreement and other information under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77-79).

 

On **DATE** a member of your staff signed for delivery of my written request and I have an electronic proof of delivery showing their signature and the date.

 

To date you have failed to comply with these requests in any way, whether by confirmation of receipt of the request or by supplying the requested documents.

 

These documents I requested should be readily available as proof of your legal right to collect this account under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

In my letter of the **DATE** I made a formal request for a copy of the signed, executed credit agreement for the above account under section 77(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore

 

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

 

If that request is not satisfied after a further 30 calendar days your client commits a summary criminal offence.

 

These limits have expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

And

 

(b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Remember, print your name, don't sign.

[BeauBrummie]

Hi Catwoman, CPR request as described by Goldlady-------- You need to read through thoroughly and edit to suit.

BB

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION UNDER THE CIVIL PROCEDURE RULES.

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I have received the Court claim filed by your Company. To enable me to file a defence and counter-claim, I require specific information regarding the account to be provided forthwith. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below. The information must be furnished by the xxxxxxxx, which gives you ten days to provide what has been requested. If you fail to comply, this will be reported to the Court, a copy of this letter will be provided as evidence to the same and an Order enforcing your compliance will be sought.

 

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

a. A transcript of all transactions, including charges, fees, interest, repayments and payments along with the original amount of credit on the agreement..

b. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations.

c. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with xxxxxxxx.

d. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

e. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

f. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

g. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

h. A genuine copy of any deed of assignment, or proof that you have a legal right to this money.

i. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

j. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

 

3. All other documents you seek to rely on in court.

4. A copy of your complaints procedure, as required by the Consumer Credit Act 2006.

5. Clarification of the date you acquired the debt, what organisation you acquired it from, their registered office, their company number (if any) and what legal title they had to this debt, and what credit license number they had at the time that the debt was purchased or entered into.

 

I will require this information within the next ten days. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it will be reported to the Court that you are trying to frustrate proceedings and denying me the opportunity to file a defence and counter claim.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I await your rapid response.

 

Yours Faithfully,

[Cat Woman]

Thank you everyone for your expert help.

 

I have decided to not get a solicitor at this stage - can't afford one anyway.

 

I CCAd both parties back in March & have proof of posting - so this is what I'm going to use in my defence.

 

My next step will be to SAR TSB from the start of the loan - circa 1997.

 

 

Have heard that some judges aren't up to date with consumer rights so will have to make my defence statement really stand out - i.e in first 2 lines or so.

 

All this is sending me scatty - eg. I lost my make up bag today - hunted everywhere & finally found it in the bread bin!!

 

Oh happy days!

[sequenci]

Cat Woman,

 

Please acknowledge the service of the claimform.

 

Then please send the creditor a request under Part-18 CPR for more info, ensure that you request a copy of the executed credit agreement within the request.

 

You're in safe hands and I daresay our collective knowledge on such issues are liekly to be greater than many a solicitor anyway.

 

Best wishes,

 

Seq

[Cat Woman]

Thank you.

 

Is the relevant letter which I need to send the same template as BeauBrummie did above? Sorry to sound confused, but I am!

 

Also, I understand the ack of claim buys you more time - the date on the claim form is 29th April so would it therefore be 14 days + 14 more to the deadline? Calendar or working days? What if the creditor doesn't respond within 10 days - do you still write out your defence according to what you have got - which in our case is nothing at all - (lack of CCA, etc).

 

MANY THANKS!

[BeauBrummie]

Ho Catwoman,

 

I think that the confusion has arisen by the fact that you have not had a reply to your CCA request and rightly "vselym" has posted up a letter that you could send pre-litigation. That has now changed and therefore the CPR request is the route you need to take.

 

It might be usefull to post up the particulars of the claim to enable the legal minds on the forum to help including date of issue.

 

Meanwhile you should send "acknowledement of service" and say that you wish to defend and counterclaim.

 

Send the CPR request by recorded delivery (trackable) to the "Eversheds" they are a solicitors and will know what they have to do.

 

Once all that is done sit back and wait for the CPR time limit to expire and if you do not get a reply from Eversheds, someone on here will be able to help with defence.

 

Hope this helps

 

BB

[Cat Woman]

I think I'm getting it now - albeit slowly!

 

The POC are:

 

The claim is for the sum of xxx(

 

A default notice was served upon the defendant and has not been complied with. (Unable to remember if this was the case as debt is so old)

 

By virtue of a sale agreement between LTSB and the claimant, the claim vested in the claimant who has a genuine commercial interest. The defendent has been notified of the assignment by letter. (I think we did get this but it went in the shredder).

 

Contact Eversheds LLP onxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

The date of issue is 29th April 08 and the court is Bradford.

 

On the Ack of Service form there is a box to enter an address to which documents about the claim should be sent to - do I enter my address or Eversheds address in this bit? From the look of it I think it's Eversheds.

 

Thank you for your help.

[BeauBrummie]

Hi Catwoman,

 

If you are sending by RM it would be YOUR address, can you not send online ??

[Cat Woman]

Hi,

 

Didn't really want to send it online as I wanted to keep my e-mail address from them in case they sent me something via this way & for one reason or another I couldn't access it.

 

I will send it registered by Royal Mail to Bradford.

 

Thank you.

[vselym]

CatWoman

 

Apologies for additional confusion, but i think youre doing fine anyway !

 

BB, is your middle name "diplomacy"

 

(this learning curve is expenential)

[BeauBrummie]

Sorry Catwoman to answer a couple of points you asked earlier,

 

Your date of issue was 29th April, so you have 33 calender days from that date to have a defence entered with court. Part of the reason for asking for info under the CPR so quickly, is to enable you to mount a defence. If Eversheds do not reply this will make your case stronger. If they do find all the relevant info, then it needs to be looked at on here if poss, (thinking of your original CCA request here) to see if it is enforcable.

 

BB

 

Vselym--- its been a short sharp learning curve for me too and any help I can give I will.

[Cat Woman]

I have an update:

 

Posted the ack of service back today by special delivery.

 

In today's post we received a letter from A/Global stating:

 

"Thank you for your letter dated 3/3/08, received 5/3/08 and acknowledge payment of the sum of £1.

 

We will now process your request for copy documents pursuant to the CCA 1974. Where we do not hold copies of the documents requested, your request will be passed to the debt originator.

 

We will use our best endeavours to comply with the time period provided for in the statute. We will keep you informed.

 

Y/Faithfully - Relationship Manager, Arrow Global"

 

What was the point in them sending this I ask, when they have clearly already exceeded the allowed time to provide what we want?

[Goldlady]

I suspect someone has kicked them where it hurts for not replying to your letter earlier, particularly as court proceedings have now been issued. I would still send the CPR letter to Eversheds as well.

 

If they can't produce the agreement they should withdraw the claim. Happened to me.

[BeauBrummie]

Hi Catwomen,

 

Any news on this one yet.

 

BB

[Cat Woman]

Hi BB,Well so far we've sent off the request for info letter under civil procedures. Had a letter back from solicitors acknowledging receipt of the letter - now time limit expired. Have set aside this weekend to now compile our defence, so will probably be asking for some guidance! The defence needs to be in by end June. Interestingly, the letter we had from the solicitors showing the balance, already includes court costs and their own fees - which I think is wrong as it has not yet been to court.Will keep you posted.

[BeauBrummie]

Sorry Catwomen,

I dont mean to alarm you but your defence needs to be submitted by the end of May I would have thought not end of June, it is 33 days from date of issue that being 29 April you have stated, so 33 Days is coming up very soon.

 

Maybe Sequenci could have a look at this one please.

 

BB

Edited May 29, 2008 by BeauBrummie
Typo Again

[Cat Woman]

Oh Christ - you are right.I am panicking at work now - I must've wrote it on calendar on June instead of May. I need to get back home asap & do it! I'm glad someone's on the ball. We're juggling lots of balls at the moment & the stress must be getting to us. So does that make the deadline then Saturday - if I send it tomorrow by special guaranteed next day will that be OK???

[BeauBrummie]

Hi Catwoman,

 

I too am at work at the momment, so there maybe others who can help but i would have thought that you need to get the papers to court at the latest Monday so a Saturday delivery will be very expensive for a day that the courts do not work.

 

BB

[Cat Woman]

I'm willing to pay for special delivery anyway - just hope Monday won't be too late for us. Can't believe how I thought it was June. Nevertheless - still received nothing in the way of a CCA or info under civil procedures so that's one good thing. Can't concentrate on work now - need to be at home but can't leave til 4pm. Thank you for pointing that date out! In fact I can't thank you enough!

[Cat Woman]

I am planning to keep the defence plain & simple in layman's terms. Is this the best way forward?