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Help with ccj from natwest


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Hi,

i really need some advce

,i've spent over 4 hours reading through as much as i can on the site but i don't seem to be able to find the info i need

 

Other half has today shown me a ccj that was dealt with in northampton

and it is a judgment by default as he thought rather than tell me what was happening

he would make like and ostrich and pretend it's not happeing so

 

i haven't seen the original papers advising of court action,

the claim wa for £5,730.90 + costs of £320.00 = £6,050.90.

 

This is made up from our overdraught a credit card and loan with natwest,

we lost £19k throuh a cowboy builder and had to borrow to get the house waterproof (long story)

 

then my husbands work was bought out and every1 made redundant so

 

it didn't take long before all the balls started falling down around us,

 

another letter has come to day stating the claim was being transferred to our local county court for enforcement!

What does this mean and is it to late to offer payment by installments.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated, we really don't now what to do, we've never had a ccj before

thanks

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In this case, enforcement is an order allowing them to send bailiffs. I don't htink it is too late but I'll get someone more knowledgable to look.

 

What efforts have you made to get the £19k back?

 

 

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Thanks.

As far as the builder is concerned

he did give us a written contract (if you can call it that) on how he was going to pay us back,

he shoud be paying £500 per month but it comes in dribs and drabs along with a sob story of how hard his life is,

since december we've had £600 of him!

 

when we took out further loans to put the roof back on the house after he had taken it off

it was on the understanding that we would be able to pay them of with the £500 we would get from him.

 

we didn't do anything leagaly because we didn't think there was anything we could do,

previous customers of his had taken him to court and won but didn't get anything from him

as the house he lived in was in his wifes name and he has no bank account,

 

he has now split from her and the house is up for sale,

 

have thought about seeing if there is a way to get some kind of claim on the house as he lived there at the time

of taking our money so the money went into that household but again not sure.

 

We did contact the police who said nothing could be done

but unoffically the best thing was to send a very large scary man to his house,

which we did and got £1k within days, (of which the big guy took half)

unfortunatly the big scary man said he'd have problems getting any more out of him

and although i've tried yellow pages for a replacement there dosn't seem to be any around,

so it's back to constant begging phone calls to this weasal and listening to how much harder his life is than ours.

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What did the original judgement state on the CCJ?

HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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What did the original judgement state on the CCJ?

 

He can't find the original papers, the only ones i have now are the judgment for claimant (in default) which states,

To the Defendant

You have not repied to the claim form, It is therfore ordered that you pay the claimant £5,730

90 for debt (and interest to date of judgment) and £320.00 costs

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I think you should consider taking him to court

 

do you think it is worth it,

even if we win whats the chances of seeing any money,

although we are struggling to get anything from him at the mo

we are the only ones as far as we know that he is paying back.

 

My logic is if we annoy him enough he'll want to pay us just to get us of his back,

we constantly phone him and his wife and drop by at his wifes house most weeks

and argue with her even if she has visitors,

 

she then gets on the phone to him and gives him greif,

but it's a strain on us aswell and we usually end up arguing between ouselves!

Has anyone else sued a builder?

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Hello there.

 

It is vital that you apply on a form called n245 to 'VARY' the terms of the CCJ, this will allow you to ask the court to pay in reasonable instalments. If the variation is accepted it would prevent the creditor taking further action.

 

You can find out more by reading this handy fact-sheet:

 

National Debtline England & Wales | Debt Advice | Factsheet 08 Reducing Payments Or Suspending A Bailiffs Warrant On A County Court Judgment

 

The current fee for a variation application is £35 although you might be entitled to a discount if you're on a low income.

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That's the logic the various credit card companies and debt collection agencies use :(

 

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

 

The main reason i persue it and refuse to forget about it as my friends and family

would like me to is that my husband is a grafter and he works so hard for the little money we have,

 

we saved for 7 years to get that money together for and extension and the builder spent it on impressing

his drinking buddies in his local,

 

if he genuinly made a mistake and lost the money through no fault of his own then fair enough

but he even told his brikkies on the first day they started working for us

he was onto a nice little earner here and they'd be moving on in a week or two

( only understood later on why the brickies never looked us in the eye

and declined all offers of tea and bacon butties)

He didnt even pay them.

 

The reason we were having the extension was because a distant relative of my husbands came to stay for a week

with her 4 month old baby and she did a runner leaving the baby behind!

So he knew we were not having such a good time of it and still he went for the juggular.

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Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
Read some of the credit card threads - MBNA is a good example

 

I'm sorry to hear of your problems - I suggested going to court because that is the legal route we have open to us. Sending 'heavies' round will backfire and leaving it to his better nature is obviously not working. He claims he 'lost it' but I bet he is not going short, just ripping someone else off.

 

In case you want to think about it, the route is te same as for bank charges:

 

1. send a letter outlining the position (he did work, you paid him....) and request the money he owes you back. Give him 14 days to reply

 

2. if that doesn't produce the money (which I guess it won't) send a letter before action. This is effectively te same as the first letter except it is headed 'letter before action' and says at the end that if he doesn't [ay up you in 14 days you will commence proceedings in the County Court to recover the money

 

3. If that fails, you file in court. Someone on here will help you wit hthe particulars of claim.

 

4. If he ignore that, you get a court order for him to pay

 

5. if he ignores that, you get a warrant of execution and send in the bailifs.

 

 

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Thanks for that,

just one or two things that may be a problem,

 

The only address i have for him is the one he lived in at the time of him taking the money

which his wife and kids still live in and he visits on a daily basis, would i send it there?

 

As the money went into the household can she allso be held responsible for what is owed

( thinking because the house is in her name but if they have now split up surley

he has a right to some part of the marital home)? most likely not.

 

If we were to win what would the end result be,

would a collection agency collect the money or would the courts do that?

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How it would affect her I don't know - obviously it won't be neutral. Who is responsible for the debt depends on lots of things - it may actually be a limited company, she may or may not be a director, etc.

 

The court-appointed bailff would collect.

 

Can you give some more details so we can see how strong a case we could make.

 

 

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Yes, thanks.

He isn't a ltd company just the average headed paper we can all print of our computers,

We paid him £11500.00, half the amount for the total works on 02/02/05

which he has given us a receipt advising as a deposit with a further payment

to be made then we have to more signed receipts for two lots of £4k

then things went wrong and his brikkies told us he was in trouble with other jobs

and had laid them of without pay and that

 

he never had any intention of finishing ours, this is when we confronted him.

 

After lots of threats and argueing he paid us £1k with a signed letter stating he had paid us this amount

and he will be able to offer an ongoing repayment within the next 21 days.

 

since then as i said before we have had a little over £4k from him.

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In this case, enforcement is an order allowing them to send bailiffs. I don't htink it is too late but I'll get someone more knowledgable to look.
My colleague says - you only have 14 days from receiving the claim to reply, If you can't afford to pay the money all at once, you can ask for time to pay.

 

You will need to fill in the 'Admission Form' N9A, specify on the form how you want to pay (eg instalments), then send the form directly to the claimant. Make sure you keep a copy.

 

 

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Thanks, just a couple of querys,

Where do i get the n94 forms from, is it the courts,

he has now found the original claim forms and they have an admission form n9a

which is where you can break down income/outgoings and what you can afford to pay, could i use those.

 

Allso there are two sets of papers,

 

one in my oh name for £5994.86 and

one in my name for £5988.83

 

both are for the same joint account and loan

but wih different claim numbers,

 

do i fill in the n94 forms for each account and if so any money i offer would that be for both claims,

eg, i can afford £85 per month for everything we owe natwest,

 

so do i offer half to each claim,

 

sorry to mither but as it's gone so far down the line i don't want to risk losing our house or debt collectors knocking on the door. thanks again

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You can download the form from Her Majesty's Courts Service - Home

 

How come there are 2 claims? Is this effectively the same debt? If it is, they are in contravention of s35 of the County Courts Act 1984

35 Division of causes of action

 

It shall not be lawful for any plaintiff to divide any cause of action for the purpose of bringing two or more actions in one or more of the county courts.

It is unlawful for them to sue you for the same thing twice or in 2 bits

 

 

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Sounds like a really nasty situation to me.

 

The builder is ****, and needs to be brought to book so that he doesn't put more people in this situation. I don't know whether there is any criminal law that you could bring to bear, but you certainly have a civil breach-of-contract case that you can bring. He agreed to do something on consideration, and didn't even though you provided the consideration. Now he is failing to comply with a repayment agreement.

 

I would consider his wife's house to be a reasonable address to serve notices at, since you know he goes there regularly and that is the address you know. As others said, it should be reasonably simple to set up a Final Demand Letter and then appropriate Particulars of Claim, though they will be different from those for a bank claim.

 

If possible, I would collar one or two of the more helpful brickies to give evidence on your behalf - it sounds like they have reason to be miffed at him too. I think it is reasonable to compensate them for their trouble in attending any hearings.

 

I won't comment on the Natwest part, as others are already helping you quite well with that. I will just say that if they have two CCJs for a single debt, that is clearly wrong and I'm certain that you could do something about it.

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I looked at the two claim forms you e-mailed me and they are for essentially the same claim. Nat West have sued you and your husband seperately for the full amount owed. I presume all the accounts in question are joint accounts.

 

Section 35 of the County Courts Act forbids a claimant from making more than one claim for the same thing (dividing the cause of action). However, in the case of a joint account the account holders have joint and several liability.

 

The thing with joint and several liability is that it gives the lender the right to a separarate cause of action against each party so its not a matter of dividing the cause of action.

 

If neither party paid then they would both get a CCJ registered against their name. If one party paid half and the other party paid nothing they would both get a CCJ. If one party paid in full neither would get a CCJ. The non paying party could use the defence that the debt has been discharged in any proceedings although strictly speaking the lender should inform the court and withdraw the proceedings. (information from zootscoot)

 

What that means is that you haven't got to pay this twice but if you don't pay it once, both you and your husband will get a CCJ registerd against you.

 

 

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