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    • https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/408156-cabotnolans-spc-claim-old-next-cat-debtclaim-dismissed/page/4/#comments https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/404240-arrowshoos-spc-old-newday-aqua-credit-card-debt-claim-dismissed-no-dn/page/4/#comments default notice win  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/407490-meiii-cabotnolans-spc-claim-old-yorkshire-bank-loan-2nd-claim-dismissed/  
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    • With regard to your question on post 207 if you bring in the points that I made on the validity of the contract they are supposed to have with Peel holdings then mention that there are already doubts about the validity of the contracts that are being used by the PPCs and the OPS is a classic example. Once you are on there you should then try and get your other point in after that.   if it is in connection with the extra charge of £60 remind the Judge that the charge has been defined by many Court across England that the charge is an abuse of process which was covered in PE v Beavis at point 198    " The charge has to be and is set at a level which enables managers to recover the costs of operating the scheme"  IE the £100 charge covers all their expenses so nothing should be added.   as their WS claims an extra £60 that could be judged as perjurious since it is an additional sum that should be known by VCS and the author of the WS as a double recovery. Especially as they have already lost in Court for the same reason.   Another cause to prove that they do not comply with their Code of Conduct. file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/CamScanner%2008-05-2020%2016.34.59.pdf  Byelaws are statutory not arbitrary as their WS said on no .42 .   Best of Luck.   The above URL does not work but this one does http://forums.National Consumer Service.com/index.php?showtopic=133001    [20.1 is where  VCS  lost then 20.2 where they appealed and lost again . But read the whole thread as it may help you in other ways too.
    • Sian Williams from Indonesia takes us through her week during the coronavirus pandemic. View the full article
    • stop doing nolans job for them... there are numerous threads here in the same forum yours is in     no DN info to follow   dx    
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Thank you for your help.

I tried everything to write it on the google like: static caravan ,static caravan pitch, prices,sell etc. I tried what you wrote me,but i couldnt find a normal site which including st.caravan for sale with pitch, or just the pitch. I mean if you want to buy aa house or rent,you are looking through the agency or you are speak with the landlord,or owner. So i need one site where i can choose. You what i mean?:)

 

Moreover i read what you sent me but i think we are talking in 2 different ways. I just want to buy a static caravan (you can do it from 300-50.000 pound) with pitch,and after i`d like to let it in the season. So i thought i just buy it,pay for it to the owner,or to the agency and thats it,its mine .Or am i wrong? Please tell me if i`m thinking in a wrong way...But it seems easy:)(Maybe i`m wrong).So this way is working?Or how is it going? Can you help me with informaton?

 

One last question. If i buy my st.caravan and i let it to people in the season,do i need to be a self employer?

 

Thank you so much for your help.

 

ps.I tried the word con but there wasnt any normal site,sorry,maybe its my fault.

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Thank you for your help.

I tried everything to write it on the google like: static caravan ,static caravan pitch, prices,sell etc. I tried what you wrote me,but i couldnt find a normal site which including st.caravan for sale with pitch, or just the pitch. I mean if you want to buy aa house or rent,you are looking through the agency or you are speak with the landlord,or owner. So i need one site where i can choose. You what i mean?:)

Moreover i read what you sent me but i think we are talking in 2 different ways. I just want to buy a static caravan (you can do it from 300-50.000 pound) with pitch,and after i`d like to let it in the season. So i thought i just buy it,pay for it to the owner,or to the agency and thats it,its mine .Or am i wrong? Please tell me if i`m thinking in a wrong way...But it seems easy:)(Maybe i`m wrong).So this way is working?Or how is it going? Can you help me with informaton?

 

One last question. If i buy my st.caravan and i let it to people in the season,do i need to be a self employer?

 

Thank you so much for your help.

 

ps.I tried the word con but there wasnt any normal site,sorry,maybe its my fault.

 

All indications are that it would be a very bad investment and chances of letting it 52 weeks of the year are zero. Chances of letting it 26 weeks of the year are almost zero. Chances of letting it 6 weeks of the year are very good. Taking that into account your profit margin is probably in the minus. You will never make money on a static caravan due to cost of caravan, site fees, maintenance and re-sale costs. If you bought a static for £50,000 today and sold it next year you would be very lucky to get £25,000. If you bought a Bailey Retreat for £23,000 and sold it next year, you would probably get £20,000. If you want more info try joining a caravan forum like "Caravan Talk" or "Practical caravan"

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  • 3 months later...

Hi,

 

I was wondering if you can help me or give me some advice.

 

I own a lodge at the Tingdene Marina Windsor. It was taken over by Tingdene and they have now changed their licence. I want to sell my Lodge for around £80,000 but they have written to me saying as it is over 10 years old (read the new licence) I cannot sell it!! It is 13 years old and when I bought it back in 2005 there were no clauses like this. I need to sell it due to personal reasons and need my money back. Where does this leave me? Can you give me any advice?

Thank you . Debra

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Hi Debra

 

You don't say whether this is a holiday or residential site, it does make a difference.

 

If it's a holiday site then there's an OFT guidance on Unfair Terms in Holiday Caravan Agreements which you need to download and have a good read. If they have issued a new licence, were you just told about it or was there some consultation? These sites will try and get away with everything they can and will keep telling you it's all in the terms and conditions. I agree, it is in the terms BUT they can be challenged, I did it twice, once in court, the second time I challenged the commission charge for selling, the contract stated buyer pays, the site charged me as the seller so I challenged it. The site settled out of court, they tried to tell me that they would get their money back from the buyer of my static and then tell the new owner to sue me. They forgot that there were 2 different contracts involved. They had a contract with me for selling, they sold on my behalf and then entered into a new contract with the buyer which had absolutely nothing to do with me so I thought 'tough, you should have read your own contract before sending it out'. They paid up on both counts, they didn't really have a lot of choice.

 

The court case was for a refund of my pre-paid site fees when I sold the static part way through the season. The site refused a refund saying I had signed the terms and conditions, but the non refund bit was an unfair term. The term restricting you to selling back to the site for a pittance is also an unfair term and you can challenge that in the small claims court. The law is the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999, a very useful piece of kit to read up on.

 

If it's residential, i.e. you live in the lodge, then you will have to look at the Mobiles Homes Act 1960 (I think) which should give you some help. It will also be governed by housing laws which you need to have a look at, I don't know very much about that I'm afraid but I understand the laws have been tightened up in favour of the consumer fairly recently.

 

Good luck anyway and don't be afraid to take these vultures on. Do you homework, read the regulations, acts, anything you can get. It can be a bit drawn out but I can assure you it's well worth it in the end. It was worth it in my case to see the look on the site owners face when the judge told them to pay up on my refund, they were not happy.

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Hi there,

 

I would like to thank you very much for your informative reply.

 

The site is a holiday site (9 months of the year).

 

Last year, enclosed with my "welcome back to the site" letter, it said that this year the licence agreement had been updated and to read it and that is when I discovered the fees for selling had increased to 15 percent and no sale of a caravan/lodge over 10yrs old.

I have an appointment at citizens advice in the morning and if they are unable to help then I have no choice but to look for a solicitor. If you had a solicitor, I would be grateful if you can give me their details.

 

Many thanks again,

 

Debra

 

Hi Debra

 

You don't say whether this is a holiday or residential site, it does make a difference.

 

If it's a holiday site then there's an OFT guidance on Unfair Terms in Holiday Caravan Agreements which you need to download and have a good read. If they have issued a new licence, were you just told about it or was there some consultation? These sites will try and get away with everything they can and will keep telling you it's all in the terms and conditions. I agree, it is in the terms BUT they can be challenged, I did it twice, once in court, the second time I challenged the commission charge for selling, the contract stated buyer pays, the site charged me as the seller so I challenged it. The site settled out of court, they tried to tell me that they would get their money back from the buyer of my static and then tell the new owner to sue me. They forgot that there were 2 different contracts involved. They had a contract with me for selling, they sold on my behalf and then entered into a new contract with the buyer which had absolutely nothing to do with me so I thought 'tough, you should have read your own contract before sending it out'. They paid up on both counts, they didn't really have a lot of choice.

 

The court case was for a refund of my pre-paid site fees when I sold the static part way through the season. The site refused a refund saying I had signed the terms and conditions, but the non refund bit was an unfair term. The term restricting you to selling back to the site for a pittance is also an unfair term and you can challenge that in the small claims court. The law is the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999, a very useful piece of kit to read up on.

 

If it's residential, i.e. you live in the lodge, then you will have to look at the Mobiles Homes Act 1960 (I think) which should give you some help. It will also be governed by housing laws which you need to have a look at, I don't know very much about that I'm afraid but I understand the laws have been tightened up in favour of the consumer fairly recently.

 

Good luck anyway and don't be afraid to take these vultures on. Do you homework, read the regulations, acts, anything you can get. It can be a bit drawn out but I can assure you it's well worth it in the end. It was worth it in my case to see the look on the site owners face when the judge told them to pay up on my refund, they were not happy.

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Hi Debra

 

I'm not too sure the CAB will be able to help you. You really need to go onto the Office of Fair Trading website and download the guidance. Have a good read of that, I am not at home at the moment otherwise I could quote you chapter and verse which bit you will need.

 

Basically, the site CANNOT change the original contract without giving you notice and issuing a brand new contract which has to be signed by both you and the site. Loads of these sites try the same thing and unfortunately owners are very wary of what these sites can do so they don't complain.

 

When I first bought a static on returning from living in France in 2009, the contract I had very clearly stated it was the BUYER who paid the commission on selling. When I sold, the site charged me as the SELLER the extortionate commission. During the court case to get the refund of pre-paid site fees, the change in the contract was mentioned and the judge asked the site if they had changed the contract. The site said yes. The judge asked whether they had notified owners and issued a new contract, the site answered no so the judge told me that was a separate issue.

 

The OFT guidance clearly says that the commission is open to challenge as well, although I have never known anyone other than me to challenge it. You also need to have a look at the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 which you can have a look at online, just google in that bit and it will come up with the details.

 

I didn't have a solicitor, I just used the consumer laws and quoted chapter and verse from those which seemed to do the trick.

 

When you go to the CAB make sure you talk to someone who is very conversant with consumer law because those are the regulations you need as this is a holiday site and not a residential one.

 

I'll have a look through what I have on this computer and see if I can give you any more information and post again if I can

 

Good luck

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Debra

 

Just found one bit that is in the Unfair Terms regs which may help, this is an extract taken directly from the regulations

 

An unfair term is one that creates a significant imbalance in the parties’ rights under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer, contrary to the requirement of good faith.

A term is most likely to cause an imbalance if it has the effect of reducing the consumer’s rights under the ordinary rules of contract or the general law. For example they either stop consumers from making certain sorts of legal claim against the business which they could otherwise have made, or give the business rights against the consumer that it would not otherwise have had.

But a term causing an imbalance must be capable of causing detriment to consumers, taken together with the other terms in the contract.

The requirement of good faith embodies a general ‘principle of fair and open dealing’. It does not simply mean that a term should not be used in a deceitful way. Suppliers are expected to respect consumers’ legitimate interests in drafting contracts, as well as negotiating and carrying them out.

 

Hope that helps a bit for a start at least

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Debra,

 

Just found another bit which is taken directly from the OFT guidance and I think this is the bit you may need and may be extremely useful

 

Tying in

5.8 Caravan owners can find themselves tied to one agent or manufacturer when seeking to purchase a replacement caravan, and to selling the old

caravan to the park owner at a loss. Any requirement that the caravan owner must buy or sell a caravan only through the park owner or an appointed agent may be capable of causing financial detriment to caravan owners.[/b][/b] We doubt that such terms will amount to ‘core’ terms, but they may do so in certain cases. At any event the relevant terms need not only to be in plain and intelligible language but to be very clearly explained before the consumer enters the agreement to reduce the potential for unfairness.30

 

It's in Section 5 of the guidance and I think it's quite clear from that section that the site are treading on thin ice but they won't be expecting anyone to challenge them so go for it!! Also contact your local trading standards people, quite a lot of owners have done this but as they are scattered all over the country no-one has yet collated all the information so that the true extent of these rip-offs isn't really known. It's about time it was publicised to stop this happening and to stop people getting continually ripped off.

 

Unless a contract is individually negotiated, which these things aren't, you can read the contract and pick out the unfair terms and challenge them. To take it to a small claims court it has to be less the £5000, the fees are about £200 in total for that amount but if you are claiming more than that then I think you will have to see a solicitor but try and go with the consumer laws first otherwise the cost will be high even though you will get it all back at the end of the case.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi there,

 

Just to let you know that I had a meeting with a Director of Tingdene today and he tells me as the contract is renewed annually, they are able to change it?

 

I really have to go to the expense of finding a suitable solicitor but wat to thank you for all yor help and Emails, I really appreciate your time. Thank you

Debra,

 

Just found another bit which is taken directly from the OFT guidance and I think this is the bit you may need and may be extremely useful

 

Tying in

5.8 Caravan owners can find themselves tied to one agent or manufacturer when seeking to purchase a replacement caravan, and to selling the old

caravan to the park owner at a loss. Any requirement that the caravan owner must buy or sell a caravan only through the park owner or an appointed agent may be capable of causing financial detriment to caravan owners.[/b][/b] We doubt that such terms will amount to ‘core’ terms, but they may do so in certain cases. At any event the relevant terms need not only to be in plain and intelligible language but to be very clearly explained before the consumer enters the agreement to reduce the potential for unfairness.30

 

It's in Section 5 of the guidance and I think it's quite clear from that section that the site are treading on thin ice but they won't be expecting anyone to challenge them so go for it!! Also contact your local trading standards people, quite a lot of owners have done this but as they are scattered all over the country no-one has yet collated all the information so that the true extent of these rip-offs isn't really known. It's about time it was publicised to stop this happening and to stop people getting continually ripped off.

 

Unless a contract is individually negotiated, which these things aren't, you can read the contract and pick out the unfair terms and challenge them. To take it to a small claims court it has to be less the £5000, the fees are about £200 in total for that amount but if you are claiming more than that then I think you will have to see a solicitor but try and go with the consumer laws first otherwise the cost will be high even though you will get it all back at the end of the case.

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No they don't have the right to just change it if it is re-issued every year unless they make you aware of the changes and make it clear you are signing a new and re-worded contract. Be careful these people will tell you all sorts of things to try and scare you off. Have a good look at the contract laws which you can look at online by googling law of contract. Have a look at the consumer contract laws as well before you go to the expense of a solicitor. Sometimes a solicitor will not clarify a contract, that happened in my case so I did a lot of reading up and took the site on without a solicitor. You really need a solicitor who is a specialist in either contract law or consumer law - preferably both. Consumer laws can protect us but we really have to do our homework to make them work.

 

Let me know how you get on and if I can be of any help let me know

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  • 5 months later...
Hi, im actually a sales person on a caravan park on the Mid wales coast, please feel free to ask me any questions!!
. Hi I wonder if you could answer this for me. Would there be much difference in price for a bk caprice that is 38 x 12 as against 36 x 12. Built 2008. My reason for asking is we have been sold one and told it was 38 x12 and the contact we signed states 38 x 12 however my father said he saw a plaque on the side saying. 36 x 12 3 bedroom. Would there be a substantial price difference? Would greatly appreciate your feedback.
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