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H.O.L Test case appeal. Judgement Declared. ***See Announcements***


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I think the banks will end up making us offers and many will accept without challenging amount in court...go back and think individually about what these and other charges have done to your life.... increased borrowing , higher interest rates, more credit cards to survive etc etc ... these issues have led to the meteoric rise of credit reference agencies which have fuelled the fire and allowed many many companies to play with us in any way they choose..... when you accept your offer please think about what we are letting these people away with....

years of abuse..

I was saying something like that to DH when discussing the Abbey new changes (provided that it is indeed as described and not just spin on yet another way to wring us dry). Abbey is going to make this new account first available to their existing customers. I can't help feeling that people being the way they are, for most apathy rules and they'll be so happy not to be charged anymore that the vast majority of them will not pursue their past charges, especially with the added fear that if they do, they will get their accounts closed and they'll have to move somewhere where conditions are not so good. The old stick and carrot routine, in other words... and one which could save them massive amounts of money.
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Now after reading the last posts it causes me to wonder just how much 'back room' chat has been going of between all the banks. 'Bookworm's' post #2871 kind of got me thinking.

The novel idea that banks can circumvent 'competition' by scare tactics start to come into focus. People by nature are worried to change accounts from bank to bank and as stated that 'carrot and stick' method comes into play.

 

Michael

When I was young I thought that money was the most important thing in life; now that I am old I know that it is. (Oscar Wilde)

--I like to be helpful wherever possible however I'm not qualified in this field. I do consider carefully anything important (normally from personal experience) however please understand that any actions taken are at your own risk--

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Point noted Car; but, was the info on Irish banks or were they NI branches of UK mainstream banks; the old grey cell is definitely not wot it was (just ask the wife!!)

 

Well, it doesn't really matter, as a County Court Judgment is only persuasive on another County Court.

 

What we need is a binding precedent, which is what is hoped of in the Test Case :rolleyes:

 

Everything else is just background noise and results in the notorious Judge Lottery that we've seen so many times in charges cases, and lots of other areas where claims are brought.

Always happy to help where I can!

:lol:

Beware of legal advice given on a private forum - do you REALLY know who is posting? Are they REALLY accountable for their posts? What if you follow their advice and get something wrong?

It was Winston Churchill who said; "Democracy is the worst way to run a country except for all the others"

 

Advice and comments posted by car2403 are offered purely without prejudice. They reflect only my personal opinion and do not represent the opinion of this forum or it's management. You should always seek legal advice from a qualified legal advisor. As a member of the site team, I disable reputation - reputation points mean nothing, please check my posting credentials yourself and make an informed decision. You shouldn't PM me and await a reply - I may be too late with a response. No replies will be given in Private Messages - just as with getting advice from the forum, getting advice via Private Messages is dangerous. CAG is about sharing successes so others can follow your example, this is primarily why I'm here, so please don't be offended if I don't offer replies in PM that doesn't comply with this. Help CAG to help others by keeping your thread up to date.

 

 

USEFUL LINKS; New User Guide to CAG | Can't find what you're looking for? | Intro to Consumer Credit Litigation | Is My Agreement Enforceable | Default (Surleybonds) Template Letter | Defaults - background, removal methods, challenges and taking a claim to Court | Digital Signature Guide | Overdrafts and the CCA

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Well,

 

I for one will not be "easy meat" for them

 

I have no desperate need for the money (I appreciate I am very fortunate in this) and so feel I owe it to others to make sure every peeny that can possi bly be claimed IS claimed

 

I would advise everybody get a current copy of their credit reports JIC the banks start clearing up ahead/after the announcment on Wednesday

omnia praesumuntur legitime facta donec probetur in contrarium

 

 

Please note: I am not a member of the legal profession, all advice given is purely my opinion, if in doubt consult a professional

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Well, having read a slightly more detailed article this morning, the new Abbey deal is not as wonderful as it seemed at first sight. Shocking, I know. :rolleyes:

 

Well, it may be, but it is only for mortgage account holders, to entice them to convert to a current account. Oh, and it's only for Abbey and B&F customers for now. A&L customers will have to wait until later in the year.

 

In other words, with the oh so low interest rates, mortgages are not bringing up enough money, whereas if they convert to a current account, a 12.9% overdraft rate will rake it in nicely for the Santander boys.

 

You mean it wasn't all for the benefit of the customer, I hear you gasp in shock? I know, I know, I was as surprised as you! :razz:

 

 

http://e-edition.metro.co.uk/2009/11/20/index.html?p=1 for article in today's Metro.

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I think the original press stories, and certainly the original press release, were quite clear that it was a product for mortgage account holders only.

 

The interest rate is quite favourable in comparison to other authorised overdraft rates.

 

They aren't talking about converting mortgages to current accounts either so don't really understand that sentence at all.

 

Quote from santander ''There is no obligation for customers to pay their mortgage from their Zero current account but obviously we would hope that with such a fantastic offering, customers would hold their primary banking relationship with us and manage their standing orders and direct debits from their Zero account.''

.

FSA Waiver on Bank Charges:http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/Regulated/Notify/Waiver/pdf/dir_quart_0709.pdf

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Yes, the product looks good - provided you are an existing Santander mortgage holder. Obviously, it would be nice to see this type of product without the strings attached, but where is the incentive for the banks to do that?

From a market point of view, I hope Santander do well with it - the more people who switch away from the charging banks the more they will need to adjust to compete.

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Yes, the product looks good - provided you are an existing Santander mortgage holder. Obviously, it would be nice to see this type of product without the strings attached, but where is the incentive for the banks to do that?

QUOTE]

 

The incentive is that we could all switch to Abbey/Santander MARKET FORCES.

 

I commend their initiative.

To pay my "usual service charge" of £35 for a bounced DD to my friends at HBOS I would have to have an unauthorised overdraft of £40,000 for a whole day at Abbey, thats how much money they are "not" making and a reflection of why HBOS used to levey such charges before CAG spoilt their game. LOL

'I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.'

Thomas Jefferson 1802

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They aren't talking about converting mortgages to current accounts either so don't really understand that sentence at all.
Well, the Metro article says: "Santander group admits it is keen to convert its 2 million Abbey mortgage customers into current account holders to take on the big banks" ... The word "convert" would be enough to make anyone thing that converting is exactly what they have in mind... Of course, I am no banker (far too honest for that for starters :razz:), but anyone who sees a bank doing something which looks good for their consumers, well, experience has shown us that it is usually anything but and benefits only the bank.

 

I would LOVE to be wrong, you have no idea how much. :-( But since joining this site, my eyes have been truly opened and I will never trust any one of them as far as I can throw them. :-(

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Well, the Metro article says: "Santander group admits it is keen to convert its 2 million Abbey mortgage customers into current account holders to take on the big banks" ... The word "convert" would be enough to make anyone thing that converting is exactly what they have in mind... Of course, I am no banker (far too honest for that for starters :razz:), but anyone who sees a bank doing something which looks good for their consumers, well, experience has shown us that it is usually anything but and benefits only the bank.

Have you asked Metro what they believe is the connotation of the word "convert"?

For me it is very simple, they are looking at getting those customers who hold their mortgage with Santander to also hold a current account with the bank because of the overall package that they are offering with regards to the current account. For example, from vague memory, I think it was only 20% of customers who have their current account with natwest also have their mortgage with the bank. That means 80% wouldn't and I would think abbey would have figures on that as well. So they are looking to covert existing mortgage customers into current account holders because of the overall package that they are offering. It isn't that difficult to understand personally but I have been far too dishonest :p

I would LOVE to be wrong, you have no idea how much. :-( But since joining this site, my eyes have been truly opened and I will never trust any one of them as far as I can throw them. :-(

 

You are wrong and your eyes need opening a bit more :p

I am trying to teach you more though ;)

Have spotted I repeated myself so I hope the second version was equally as good as the first version :D

Edited by yourbank

.

FSA Waiver on Bank Charges:http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/Regulated/Notify/Waiver/pdf/dir_quart_0709.pdf

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Of course Santander want their own 'mortgage clients' to become bank clients as it will be 'easier' for them to plunder their accounts as and when they seek fit... don't all shout that it doesn't/can't happen because we all know otherwise.

 

A long time ago I had an Abbey Mortgage and an Abbey bank account and guess what, they screwed the bank account to get me to remortgage and then let me down badly... however hopefully the charges will now need to be returned... claim of course stayed when mortgage proceedings rushed through.

 

Sorry Santander but you are no Saints and will only end up loosing customers and any 'good name' you perceive you have in this country. Changing the name doesn't change things for the better.

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lots more rumour mill, I would just take abbey offer at face value it will be of no consequence in the coming months when announcement is made in our favour the banks will start jostling for position ... this can be a good thing as competition will heat up for our business.... abbey just the first to do so...

 

the problem is a few years down the line when we all leave this site with our money in our pockets. they all get together again and find a way to fleece us once more.... you can bet next time they do it , it will all be perfectly legal and we will have to just suffer it. the only power we have is in numbers and if we keep campaigning and sick together we can beat all they throw at us..... next time any banks steps out of line we should all withdraw our money and close the bast"ards down.....

Only direct action by the masses will work....

 

Look at all successes they have never come from negotiation!!!

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I'm not with Bookworm because having read every single word of the Santander's press release a few times now just for clarification, not once did they use the word "convert". They specifically talk up their current account offering alongside the mortgage and they talk about the full account package. That is why when the paper states "convert" it is talking about people having their current account and mortgage account with Santander which clearly they don't. You can ask metro whether that is their interpretation of the press release(which I can understand) but Santander NEVER mentioned it in their press release.

.

FSA Waiver on Bank Charges:http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/Regulated/Notify/Waiver/pdf/dir_quart_0709.pdf

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lots more rumour mill, I would just take abbey offer at face value it will be of no consequence in the coming months when announcement is made in our favour the banks will start jostling for position ... this can be a good thing as competition will heat up for our business.... abbey just the first to do so...

 

the problem is a few years down the line when we all leave this site with our money in our pockets. they all get together again and find a way to fleece us once more.... you can bet next time they do it , it will all be perfectly legal and we will have to just suffer it. the only power we have is in numbers and if we keep campaigning and sick together we can beat all they throw at us..... next time any banks steps out of line we should all withdraw our money and close the bast"ards down.....

 

Hopefully for us in the future it will be a case of 'Once bitten twice shy'

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I'd look at the simple fact that if Santander have 'all the eggs in one basket' then they can manipulate things more easy. I noticed they are doing out a B&B outlet closeby and 3 weeks later it's almost finished. One night the red Santander signs went up but strangely the next day it was back to showing B&B again. What surprises me is that there's an Abbey branch across the road and I cannot believe they are going to retain all the different trading names. Sorry I digress (as usual) but as mentioned 'once bitten, twice shy' and let's face it they are not producing accounts for free are they? A single percentage point can sway people these days and also be the gain or downfall of a bank too.

 

Michael

When I was young I thought that money was the most important thing in life; now that I am old I know that it is. (Oscar Wilde)

--I like to be helpful wherever possible however I'm not qualified in this field. I do consider carefully anything important (normally from personal experience) however please understand that any actions taken are at your own risk--

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Meanwhile, back at the Supreme Court of Justice...

 

The Judge has another cuppa and a Tesco Value Bourbon Cream...

 

:lol:

Always happy to help where I can!

:lol:

Beware of legal advice given on a private forum - do you REALLY know who is posting? Are they REALLY accountable for their posts? What if you follow their advice and get something wrong?

It was Winston Churchill who said; "Democracy is the worst way to run a country except for all the others"

 

Advice and comments posted by car2403 are offered purely without prejudice. They reflect only my personal opinion and do not represent the opinion of this forum or it's management. You should always seek legal advice from a qualified legal advisor. As a member of the site team, I disable reputation - reputation points mean nothing, please check my posting credentials yourself and make an informed decision. You shouldn't PM me and await a reply - I may be too late with a response. No replies will be given in Private Messages - just as with getting advice from the forum, getting advice via Private Messages is dangerous. CAG is about sharing successes so others can follow your example, this is primarily why I'm here, so please don't be offended if I don't offer replies in PM that doesn't comply with this. Help CAG to help others by keeping your thread up to date.

 

 

USEFUL LINKS; New User Guide to CAG | Can't find what you're looking for? | Intro to Consumer Credit Litigation | Is My Agreement Enforceable | Default (Surleybonds) Template Letter | Defaults - background, removal methods, challenges and taking a claim to Court | Digital Signature Guide | Overdrafts and the CCA

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I'm not with Bookworm because having read every single word of the Santander's press release a few times now just for clarification, not once did they use the word "convert". They specifically talk up their current account offering alongside the mortgage and they talk about the full account package. That is why when the paper states "convert" it is talking about people having their current account and mortgage account with Santander which clearly they don't. You can ask metro whether that is their interpretation of the press release(which I can understand) but Santander NEVER mentioned it in their press release.

 

Yourbank - You have too much time on your hands, I'm with bookie.icon10.gif

All comments are my personal views - if in doubt then seek professional advice. If you think i've helped then please tip my scales.

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lots more rumour mill, I would just take abbey offer at face value it will be of no consequence in the coming months when announcement is made in our favour the banks will start jostling for position ... this can be a good thing as competition will heat up for our business.... abbey just the first to do so...

 

the problem is a few years down the line when we all leave this site with our money in our pockets. they all get together again and find a way to fleece us once more.... you can bet next time they do it , it will all be perfectly legal and we will have to just suffer it. the only power we have is in numbers and if we keep campaigning and sick together we can beat all they throw at us..... next time any banks steps out of line we should all withdraw our money and close the bast"ards down.....

 

THE DSB bank is an example of exactly how people power can work in practice. For those that havent heard of this one - basically an activist was so disturbed by some of the bank's lending practices that he called on consumers to withdraw their deposits and close their accounts. Many customers did exactly that and the bank collapsed.....

The DSB Bank debacle ? a timeline | Radio Netherlands Worldwide

All comments are my personal views - if in doubt then seek professional advice. If you think i've helped then please tip my scales.

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Now that article is quite an eye opener compared to the UK. I doubt any UK banks directors hvave ever experienced any pressure thoughout their working lives and probably not going to start now whatever the HoL outcome. Could you imagine what should have happened? LloydsTSB made bankrupt for example. RBS split up and sections closed down or sold off? Leading directors paid off with multi million pound farewells only to get employment in other industries?

We can all live in hope I guess. LOL

 

Michael

When I was young I thought that money was the most important thing in life; now that I am old I know that it is. (Oscar Wilde)

--I like to be helpful wherever possible however I'm not qualified in this field. I do consider carefully anything important (normally from personal experience) however please understand that any actions taken are at your own risk--

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Yourbank - You have too much time on your hands, I'm with bookie.icon10.gif

Not really, the full text of the press release is on the Penalty Charges website(it's just I get about a bit more than others ;) ).

.

FSA Waiver on Bank Charges:http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/Regulated/Notify/Waiver/pdf/dir_quart_0709.pdf

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THE DSB bank is an example of exactly how people power can work in practice. For those that havent heard of this one - basically an activist was so disturbed by some of the bank's lending practices that he called on consumers to withdraw their deposits and close their accounts. Many customers did exactly that and the bank collapsed.....

The DSB Bank debacle ? a timeline | Radio Netherlands Worldwide

I think the problem is that banks have various different types of customers so unless you have mass appeal rather than the annihilation of a bank it would be difficult to do within the UK. It would for example, Northern Rock was an example where people really did run as fast as they could but then the Government took it over entirely and other banks' circled like vultures for Northern Rock customers...it would be the same no doubt,

.

FSA Waiver on Bank Charges:http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/Regulated/Notify/Waiver/pdf/dir_quart_0709.pdf

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Hmm, "a government source" on BBC Breakfast suggests 2015 before we get a conclusion.

 

Yup, saw that. They are saying that as the Banks have challenged every court ruleing so far, they are unlikely to give up now and you shouldn't expect anything to be decided before 2015.

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