Mel5 v Clydesdale

[mel5]

Thanks all.

 

I will be contacting both Clydesdale and the Court first thing tomorrow rejecting the offer. I want my interest and costs. If they offer to pay these as well then I'll accept on the understanding that I will be pursuing the rest of the charges (c £3410) through as many small claims as it takes.

 

I've got plenty of time. After all this has been going on since April what's another couple of months.

 

Will keep you posted

 

Mel

[mel5]

Talk about the best laid schemes!! Phoned the Court on Monday to ask what to do about my offer only to find out it was a local holiday.

 

Intended to fax/phone the Clydesdale to reject settlement offer but on examining their letter could find no contact details except address. Tried to phone but every Clydesdale bank has the same phone number. A call centre surprise, surprise!! Managed to find my branch number only to be diverted through to - yes youv'e guessed the call centre. They were as usual a big help. After explaining that it was legal services at St Vincent Place that I wanted to contact they couldn't help. So much for letting them have a reply by Monday.

 

Off to Court this morning and spoke to Duncan (my new best friend at Court) explained that I had received an offer but I was not accepting. He said to let the sheriff know.

 

Sheriff arrived in court at 10.10 a.m. and I was back out on the street by 10.20. I was first up. He didn't seem that interested in the fact that I had been offered a settlement. Clydesdale's solicitor - yes they had one there - was asked to eloborate on the written defence that had been submitted. I could here snatches of what the sheriff said "breached contract" "agreed to accept charges when the account was opened " etc. Poor solicitor said he was unable at this time to add anything else. So the nice Sheriff has given me another date to attend - 1st December. No doubt the bank will use the time wisely to think up more delaying tactics.

 

Anybody got any ideas how I should proceed?

 

All suggestions welcome.

 

Mel

[caro]

I suggest you just let the court do its stuff, unless of course a full offer is received.

[Bigmac versus]

Expect the bank to pay before then, interest growing daily remind them! Well done on going through the court appearance, short or not,lol.

[mel5]

If the Clydesdale settle before the proof hearing on 1st December will it be for

 

a) my first claim of £750 plus interest and exp or

b) for the full amount of approx. £3K. plus interest plus exp

 

If it is a) do I then go ahead with the whole process again for the next £750 (or £1500 summary cause which I am thinking of doing)?

 

Anybody know?

 

Mel

[Robertxc]

a) and yes.

[mel5]

Thanks Robert

 

Why doesn't this surprise me! Why can't it be more like the English system?

 

Sorry, feeling at a loose end and need a moan.

 

Mel

[mel5]

Hi

 

Is there a Small Claims "court bundle" available anywhere for a proof hearing (1st Dec)? I understand I have got to have this to the court 14 days before.

 

Do I get a copy of the Bank's evidence first (nothing so far) so that I can respond?

 

Appreciate any help.

 

Thanks

 

Mel5

[SR7133]

Hi Mel5

 

I was just wondering how you got on with your Hearing - any update?

 

SR7133

[mel5]

Thanks SR

 

Thought I would let everybody get over the London expedition first.

 

Received a cheque for the full amount by recorded delivery on Thursday 30th. Wasn’t sure whether I needed to go to court on Friday 1st or not but decided to go. Just as well as Clydesdale was represented and informed the sheriff that I had in fact received a cheque in settlement as an ex gratia payment and in no way did the bank admit liability.

Sheriff asked me to confirm this and I said yes but that I wanted a continuance until the cheque cleared. He was a bit surprised by this request but granted another hearing for the 19th December.

The cheque has now cleared and I have advised the court accordingly. So it’s on with the next one. Hope it doesn’t take as long as the first (14th April to 4th December).

Mel5

There will be turkey on the table after all!!!!!!

[Bigmac versus]

Well done Mel, was it the court claim they paid in full or was it your entire claim. know you said you will start another one now, just unsure if same bank or other account. Being an expert now you will find it easy to pursue them.

[ploppy]

going through a very similar claim as yourself, my second court date is 22/12 but have been offered settlement of full first claim amount (though 2 weeks and still no cheque, being processed allegedly).

Anyway what I would like to ask you are you going through the full process again for a second claim with the same account or can you just skip some steps:|

[mel5]

Thanks George

 

To clarify

It was my first claim of £750 to be settled (unfortunately) so the next one is for the same account with Clydesdale.

 

Poppy

I confirmed it with Robert that if your LBA was for the full amount of your claim (say £3K) you can skip steps 1-3 and go straight to lodging another small claim for £750.

 

Hope this clarifies - it's a bit early in the morning for me.

 

Mel5

[caro]

Congratulations Mel. Shame you have to go through it again, but at least it's going the right way and you know what to expect now.

[hoogie32]

Congratulations Mel.

[SR7133]

Well done Mel - I was watching your thread with interest and that is a great result. Nice for Christmas time!

[Bigmac versus]

Hi Mel two quick questions for you.

1/ Did your settlement include costs.

2/ Are you now saying you will go straight to filing claim no 2 at court, this is position im at, 1st claim took 6 months, so hopefully the rest will be a lot quicker now eh.

Reason im asking was because i was thinking what their reply would be now to a prelim or an LBA for the remainder when you point out they settled the first claim?----------- probably same speel right enough,lol.

[mel5]

Hi George

 

1. Yes it included the £39 for raising the action plus 8% interest daily for the period that the small claim was served until the date of payment.

2. If when you sent in your request for payment and LBA it was for the full amount of your claim (not just £750 limit of small claim) then you skip these steps and go straight for your 2nd claim of £750.

 

Mine has already gone and am waiting for a court date. But as the courts are getting flooded with claims I don't expect it to be very soon.

 

I don't know if now that they have paid one (but not admitting liability of course) the second one might not go the full distance like the first. But this could be just wishful thinking.

 

At least it won't be so scary. We'll know what to expect.

 

Mel

[Bigmac versus]

Thx Mel, may try another LBA with them for second claim just as im curious what they might say now, then off to court.

[Harry Turnbull]

I am due to go to court tomorrow morning, 12th December, for preliminary hearing as Clydesdale have said they intend to appear and have made me no offers. Claim is for £951.98 plus £483.86 interest (Scottish Summary Cause Summons, i.e. maximum of £1500.00). This is my first of four or five claims.

 

Will let you know what happens.

 

Harry Turnbull

[mel5]

Hello All

Haven’t been on-line for a while as I was waiting for 27th Jan hearing on small claim No 2 vs Clydesdale Bank.

 

Thought it would be same as last time as they had offered a settlement but as it didn’t include interest or expenses I turned it down. So a 2 minute appearance with a date set for proof hearing was on the cards.

But that wasn’t the case. I knew that they had registered a defence but again expected it to be same as last time that the charges the bank was making were fair blah de blah. You could have knocked me down with a feather when I heard what the solicitor had to say. There was nothing about charges at all. Her defence was that my claim should be thrown out as it was “incompetent” for the following reasons:

1. because I had known at the outset that the amount I would be claiming was approx £3k I should have claimed the whole lot in one go.

2. I was therefore abusing the small claim system and as one claim had already been made for £750 and settled this 2nd claim should be dismissed on the grounds of incompetency. She produced 3 different cases to support her argument. None of which were against bank charges.

The sheriff said he would have to read them and asked me to wait in court.

 

I was there for 2 hours while he dealt with umpteen other cases during which he attempted to read the evidence not very successfully in snatches between cases. He then suggested a recess of half an hour.

 

When he returned he told the solicitor that the cases she had submitted were different from mine in that the claims made in each case were for one incident at one specific time and as such he agreed that the small claims system should not have been used. But he added that although this second claim of mine was almost identical to the first in that I was claiming the same sort of amounts viz for returned dds etc these had been incurred not as one charge but as a succession of charges and as such he thought that the small claims system could be used.

 

However he was going to continue the case for a month to allow each side to investigate the matter further and that as I had not been aware of the defence I could consult a lawyer if I so wished.

Please let me know if the Clydesdale or any other bank has used this argument against anyone else and if so what was the outcome?

Mel

[mel5]

I have just had a private message stating that Clydesdale used the same argument in an Edinburgh court and that the Sheriff agreed to throwing out the case as "incompetent".

 

If this happens to me when I return to court on 27th March does that mean that it is all over and that I can't put in another claim. Is the Clydesdale going to get away with only paying out £750 of a claim of over £3k?

 

What argument can I use against the sheriff if he proposes that my 2nd claim should be thrown out?

 

Help, please

 

Mel

[Robertxc]

We're considering this, and think that the Sheriff may have been wrong.

[mel5]

Latest update:

 

Was at court on Tuesday 27th for 2nd prelim hearing. Did not go well. It was a different sheriff and she was unwilling to make a decision so late in the debate and said that it should have been heard again by the original sheriff.

 

She asked if I was unable to argue against the point of law that CB's solicitor had put forward. I had to say that I wasn't as I had not received a copy of the defence.

 

To cut a long story short she has continued the case until the 13th March when the original sheriff will be available. But she did impress on me that I had better come prepared with arguments and recommended that I get a copy of Stair's Encyclopaedia (I can hardly spell the word far less be able to understand the legal jargon in it) from the library and make an appointment with a solicitor.

 

I managed to get a copy of CB's defence - all 13 pages of it. I am unable to put it on line but here are the cases quoted:

 

Stevenson v Pontifex and Wood (1887) 15 R125 (pages 125-127 of Cases decided inthe Court of Session etc) & para 77 of Vol 13 Judicial and Other Remedies)

 

Aberdeen Development Co v Mackie Ramsay and Taylor (pages 177-182 of Reports-1977, Scots Law Times)

 

The Duke of Abercorn v Merry & Cunningame Limited (pages 319-321 of Reports-1909, Scots Law Times.

 

 

I would be very grateful if anyone out there can give me advice.

 

Thanks

Mel5

[caro]

I think that rather like the defence Bigmac got today Mel (George). At least you have a bit of time to read it. He was handed it in court and that was it. Not good for you to read, but important.

 

Clydesdale are certainly stepping things up.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/scotland/19737-george-mcm-clydesdale-bank-7.html