Bailiff assaulted me - Case closed .. I WON

[The Watcher]

I am fuming now!! Just recieved a letter from the council and they are refusing to comment further on the complaint against Drakes Group. Not even a reason why they are not commenting or what they are doing about it. My questions have gone unanswered etc. so Im now filing a complaint with the council ombudsman. Seems to me they are just going to sit back and hope it will just go away.

 

I think its a standard tactic when they are up against the wall !

 

They hope the matter will "go away" and that you will give up and stop persuing them.

 

IF they had an answer - you WOULD have received it !

[Belaflat]

"quote" Once a debtor has opened the door to an enforcement officer effectively the officer has secured peaceful entry...

 

Is this correct, can someone please enlighten us.

[PI Guy]

have a look here Bailiff Matters

[caledfwlch]

What is the legal position regarding Bailiffs and steel security gates? The area im living in is not the best of places, though not the worst in the city, and the house came with a heavy steel or some such black gate/grill that covers the front door, so steel gate THEN front door, do they have the lawful right to carry out what presumably would be a pretty expensive job and remove the gate first THEN the front door lock? When our landlord had the gate locks changed on moving in, the gate had to be open, and was basically a welding job to get the lock out, change it then weld the lock back into place, so pretty secure. Or is there a nice loophole that they couldnt break through at large expense through 2 doors?

[seanamarts]

What is the legal position regarding Bailiffs and steel security gates? The area im living in is not the best of places, though not the worst in the city, and the house came with a heavy steel or some such black gate/grill that covers the front door, so steel gate THEN front door, do they have the lawful right to carry out what presumably would be a pretty expensive job and remove the gate first THEN the front door lock? When our landlord had the gate locks changed on moving in, the gate had to be open, and was basically a welding job to get the lock out, change it then weld the lock back into place, so pretty secure. Or is there a nice loophole that they couldnt break through at large expense through 2 doors?

they will just charge you for doing it no doubt

[The Watcher]

What is the legal position regarding Bailiffs and steel security gates? The area im living in is not the best of places, though not the worst in the city, and the house came with a heavy steel or some such black gate/grill that covers the front door, so steel gate THEN front door, do they have the lawful right to carry out what presumably would be a pretty expensive job and remove the gate first THEN the front door lock? When our landlord had the gate locks changed on moving in, the gate had to be open, and was basically a welding job to get the lock out, change it then weld the lock back into place, so pretty secure. Or is there a nice loophole that they couldnt break through at large expense through 2 doors?

 

I'm assuming that "front door" (in the law) applies to the "outer door" which normally prevents entry (and seals the property).

 

When the new Bill becomes law I assume they will be authorised to force entry to this, as it is preventing them from accessing your "front door" ?

[rscott101]

Just a thought about them not responding to your complaint... Why not hit them with a SAR? Hopefully this'll turn up their internal discussions about your complaint...

[seanamarts]

****UPDATE*****

 

Received a letter from drakes this morning and boy am I not surprised at what they have written. They are now telling me that a letter was hand delivered to my address 7 days before the incident, well I can assure them that I did not receive any such letter, but they say they have the proof to back this up, which I would like to see, and will ask them for this proof. I wont be surprised if i dont get it though. Mr ***** is still denying that any assault took place, but lucky I have this proof in way of hospital records and photographs of my injuries. Drakes still claim that Mr ***** gained peaceful entry because I opened the door, and this sentence I really dont understand.

 

As you prevented our officer from carrying out his duties by denying him access to the property he was unable to seize goods and therefore no walking possession took place.

Im a bit cross that the form 4 I have sent has been sent all over the place and not to the correct court, it has been sent to my LC and to drakes and now has come back to me, I sent it to the magrastrtes court by mistake, seems to me no one knows where the county court is in ipswich, so I will be sending that off later today again lol, but here is some thing interesting, Drakes has told my LC that mr ***** was certified in January 07 when infact he was certified in march 07, I will certainly be passing that information on. its nice when you get proof handed to you like this

any way back to the letter writing, I dont know how my sanity is going to cope with all this. But they arnt going to get away with this an assault is an assault full stop.

[seanamarts]

Just a thought about them not responding to your complaint... Why not hit them with a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)? Hopefully this'll turn up their internal discussions about your complaint...

I may do this but Im not really sure how I go about this

[The Watcher]

They are now telling me that a letter was hand delivered to my address 7 days before the incident, well I can assure them that I did not receive any such letter, but they say they have the proof to back this up, which I would like to see, and will ask them for this proof. I wont be surprised if i dont get it though.

 

I'll bet they have a "witness" (another bailiff) who will "back him up" (and he can "return the favour" one day)?

 

If the bailiff was not certificated at the time - he had no authority whatsoever - full stop !!!

[Saffronflowers]

TW - the only authority he did not have was to do a levy. IYSWIM - so the point here would be if he was here to do a WPO, then it would be invalid as he was not certified.

 

With your Form 4 I would include a paragraph at the bottom, to include new evidence eg the proof, and question why this was not forthcoming earlier.

 

You also need to send it to the county court where the bailiff was certified not your local county court.

 

SFx

[seanamarts]

TW - the only authority he did not have was to do a levy. IYSWIM - so the point here would be if he was here to do a WPO, then it would be invalid as he was not certified.

 

With your Form 4 I would include a paragraph at the bottom, to include new evidence eg the proof, and question why this was not forthcoming earlier.

 

You also need to send it to the county court where the bailiff was certified not your local county court.

 

SFx

he was certified when he came to me on the 29th of may but was not certified between january and the end of march, but drakes have told my local council that he was issued with his certificate in january . I cant believe that Drakes have actually lied to the council. I shall be adding this to the form 4 statement. Just shows that MR ***** was working for the council UNCERTIFIED naughty boy

[Saffronflowers]

Interesting - their should be a copy of all the levies that were done in the time he was uncertified, I wonder how you could find this information out - maybe when you complain to the ombudsman, he can get this info.

 

 

SFx

[seanamarts]

Interesting - their should be a copy of all the levies that were done in the time he was uncertified, I wonder how you could find this information out - maybe when you complain to the ombudsman, he can get this info.

 

 

SFx

I shall mention it to the council ombudsman and my mp who is going to look into this maybe he can get some answers

[The Watcher]

TW - the only authority he did not have was to do a levy. IYSWIM - so the point here would be if he was here to do a WPO, then it would be invalid as he was not certified.

 

I don't quite follow your point here.

 

It appears that he was certificated when he called (in March) - but if he had not been (during the Jan - Mar period) then he would have had no authority (or rights of a bailiff) at all, as ONLY certificated bailiffs can carry out this work?

[Saffronflowers]

What I am trying to say is that they only have to be certified to Levy goods, they can deliver letters etc - threaten to levy but only have to be certified to actually levy goods. I am not saying that there are not uncertified bailiffs who do levy, hence, why the first question is have you checked the register.

 

SFx

[The Watcher]

What I am trying to say is that they only have to be certified to Levy goods, they can deliver letters etc - threaten to levy but only have to be certified to actually levy goods.

SFx

 

Ahh ! I think we are agreed !

Without certification they have none of the rights of a bailiff - merely the rights of a postman?

[Saffronflowers]

LOL - yes!!! but they dont like to admit that!! Also Postmen are way better!

 

SFx

[bungy]

There is no point in an uncertificated bailiff delivering letters because no charge can be made for doing so. A bailiff can only call (and leave a letter if no one is in) with "the intention of levying distress" If the bailiff is not certificated then he cannot have this intention. He can visit and leave you a letter but cannot charge for it.

[The Watcher]

There is no point in an uncertificated bailiff delivering letters because no charge can be made for doing so. A bailiff can only call (and leave a letter if no one is in) with "the intention of levying distress" If the bailiff is not certificated then he cannot have this intention. He can visit and leave you a letter but cannot charge for it.

 

So they are merely postmen !

 

I thought occurred to me, many people have complained about bailiffs arriving at unreasonable times (eg 6am) - would it not be a good idea to refuse to deal with anyone calling at that time anyway, as you would not be able to check Certification until normal office hours?

[seanamarts]

LOL - yes!!! but they dont like to admit that!! Also Postmen are way better!

 

SFx

not to mention most are better looking too, well mine is lol

[seanamarts]

So they are merely postmen !

 

I thought occurred to me, many people have complained about bailiffs arriving at unreasonable times (eg 6am) - would it not be a good idea to refuse to deal with anyone calling at that time anyway, as you would not be able to check Certification until normal office hours?

thats a good point, apparently so Drakes have informed me that mr **** delivered a letter at 8.30 in the evening. Their proof is that he has GPS records to say he was in the area, well my argument to that is that he works this area so of course he would be in my area, no proof to say he delivered a letter here. which he didnt

[Saffronflowers]

Mine is a lady!!!!!

 

TW - the problem is that most people dont realise that they can check the certificate. In a way we have to put ourselves in a position of someone who has just received their first visit and are terriefied but the guff that they spout. THink about the number of first time desperate posters on here.

 

People want instant answers to their problem.

 

SFx

[Saffronflowers]

Sea - I was told by big bailiff bloke that GPS is unreliable, if they have this then why have they not supplied it to you?

 

SFx

[The Watcher]

TW - the problem is that most people dont realise that they can check the certificate. In a way we have to put ourselves in a position of someone who has just received their first visit and are terriefied but the guff that they spout. THink about the number of first time desperate posters on here.

 

SFx

 

I agree - which is why we must push this point more !

 

As well as telling people not to let them in - we should emphasise the fact that FIRST they need to check a bailiffs certificate (not his ID card !) and that can ONLY be done during office hours.