Council Tax Bailiff who's right?

[tomtubby]

Pay £10....I am sure it will be worth it.

 

I have pm'd you.

[lizzy40]

I will pay the £10 out of principle through!

 

What about the letters threatening prison? Are they allowed to do this?

[lizzy40]

Hi Tomtubby,

 

Received screen print out from Newlyns today (took longer then expected).

 

What do I need to do now and what am I looking for on the print out.

 

Thanks

 

Lizzy

[lizzy40]

Still getting removal notice letters from Newlyns for outstanding debt of £42.50 for council tax. This money is for there fee charges for visits I dont believe they made.

 

Have screen shot of my account waiting for someone to advise what I should do next?

 

Lizzy

[lizzy40]

Can Tomtubby give me some advise please...

 

Lizzy

[lizzy40]

On receipt of a summons for non payment of council tax, agreed to make monthly payments which council accepted however they said they will still ask the court to grant a liability order against me, this was granted last Nov 2007.

 

Missed Januarys 2008 payment and the next contact was from newlyns, should the council have informed me that my account had be passed on?

 

I have read somewhere on this site that they should?

 

On the summons it does say that this payment arrangment is conditional on a direct debt set up and if at any time the direct debt fails then further recovery action will be taken?

 

Have another question - If my account was passed over to Newlyns on the 1 feb and they claim they visited me on the 2nd how likely is that?

[chris600uk]

Its okay saying they can't but they are!

 

That's because most people give in.

 

Do you now have proof that the bailiff visited the 1st and 2nd time?

[chris600uk]

Or do you have proof they didn't?

[lizzy40]

Newlyns originally said they called at my property on the 11th and 22nd of Feb 2008. So these are the dates the £42.50 will apply too.

 

I now have the screen print out of my account from Newlyns however it is not easy to read. It states the first visit was on the 2nd Feb but the notes next to this date mention the visit was actually made on 11 Feb 2008, so it looks like the first visit corresponds with what they have said.

 

The second visit which was updated on the printout on the 21 Feb the notes next to this date state the second visit was on 8 Feb. Very strange this isn't right.

 

The third visit was up dated on the printout on the 26 Feb and the notes say the visit was made on the 22nd.

 

 

It looks like the first and third visit correspond with what they have said but I have no proof they didn't come, they would not provide any satellite navigation as proof they called at these dates.

 

I feel quite sure they didn't call on these dates the first time I new that my account had been passed to Newlyns was on the 27 Feb by a letter delivered via the royal mail?

 

This is really taking up to much of my time for £42.50 but the council need to be aware of what these people get up too - I am still getting threatening letters stating notice of COMMITTAL TO PRISON how dare they make such threatening statements...

 

Thanks for listening..

 

Lizzy

[scatz1972]

Hi Lizzy

 

Did you make the Form 4 complaint?

 

From what I understand it doesnt cost you anything.

 

Perhaps send a copy of the completed form 4 complaint for excessive fees to the bailiffs with a letter to say that you give them x amount of days to drop the £42.50 or you will send the Form 4 complaint to the court that certified the bailiff.

 

Tomtubby said that they MUST provide you with the print outs of the satnav to prove the visits. With the changing of the dates on your print out and their unwillingness to provide the satnav printouts says to me that they are no doubt lying about the visits.

 

How do they think that they can send you to prison for not paying a bailiff bill???

 

Hopefully TT will be around later to give you some advice.

[Bongo Dancer]

they MUST provide you with the print outs of the satnav to prove the visits

 

That doesnt prove anything. If challenged the bailiff writes a sworn affidavit giving dates times and reasonable efforts made giving rise to a visit fee. The bailiff is caught lying then he commits an offence under the Perjury Act 1911. I had a process server convicted after giving testifying he served documents on me. The Judge made a finding of fact to the contrary when I produced an airline boarding pass proving I was in Munich.

[scatz1972]

Why are you arguing with me, im only stating what TT said?

[Bongo Dancer]

argument not intended. I was a badgirl bailiff once and I guess my overtone is still intimidating. Im out of a titter at the bailiffs expense now.

[lizzy40]

Well unfortunately I don't have a boarding pass as proof, its impossible to prove that they didn't knock on my door on the dates they state?

 

Do these letters then have to be handed directly to the client, to raise the £42.50 charge or can they just come via royal mail?

[Bongo Dancer]

A visit means the certificated bailiff (and not the postman) came to see you. Shoving a document in your letterbox doesn't count, he must make reasonable efforts to serve notice of attendance on you. If you dispute the visit fee because the bailiff did not make reasonable effrots to contact you then no fee is due. You can dispute it, but if the bailiff makes a sworn statement making those visits giving date and time then the fees are due. If you prove to the contrary, e.g. at work or have reputable allibi (e.g, a doctors appointment) the bailiff will perjure himself.

[lizzy40]

Thank you that was very interesting.

 

I have never seen or spoken to a baliff, I am not home during the day!

 

Can a letter be handed to anyone else in the house hold or even anyone else on the premisis at the time?

[Bongo Dancer]

Nope. If a bailiff claims he visited you then ask him to prove it. Send the following with a copy of the document left behind by the bailiff and a covering letter asking they complete and return to you within 14 days and you will pay their visit fee. Otherwise you will automatically report the bailiff to police for committing an offence under Section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006 by charging you fees for visits he did not make.

 

NAME OF BAILIFFS LTD

ADDRESS 1

ADDRESS 2

ADDRESS 3

POSTCODE

 

CASE NUMBER (REF) XX0000000

 

 

[NAME OF COUNCIL/AUTHORITY] Creditor

 

And

 

[YOUR NAME AS SHOWN ON DOCUMENT] Debtor

 

 

 

SWORN STATEMENT OF CERTIFICATED BAILIFF

 

I [NAME OF BAILIFF] of [ADDRESS OF BAILIFFS LTD] in the county of [COUNTY] acting under the direction of the above named creditor in this matter say as follows:

 

 

 

1. That I am over 16 years of age

 

2. That I did on [DAY] the [DATE] at [TIME] personally visited the debtor at [DEBTORS ADDRESS CLAIMED BY BAILIFF] and handed him a copy of the attached document giving rise to lawfully prescribed fees under the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992.

 

3. That the debtor freely admitted his identity and accepted the same

 

4. There is hereto annexed marked AB01 a true copy of the said document so served as aforementioned.

 

 

 

I hereby confirm that I have read this sworn statement comprising of one (1) page and I believe that the facts stated are true.

 

SWORN at:

 

In the COUNTY of [iNSERT COUNTY]

 

On day of (year)

 

 

Before me:________________________________

 

An officer the Court.

[lizzy40]

Wow I would imagine not many people would know this? Is this definitely okay for council tax baliffs?

 

Need to double check before I send letter because this is very new to me.

 

Baliffs must hand the letter to the debtor in person to raise the two charges amounting to £42.50? Not post through letter box?

 

Makes me wonder what was the point of me getting the screen print out from them that cost me £10?

[Bongo Dancer]

I did and it worked. Make sure you have your facts right before shooting the bailiff. The bailiff must prove his visit by committing on oath when and where he made the visit. It's up to a judge to decide if he speaks the truth, but if the bailiff refuses to swear to that effect then you have excellent grounds to decline payment of his visit fee. (This is not criminal law where silence cannot be construed to be guilt - this is civil). Paying £10 for data access is a mugs game, give the bailiff a chance to mitigate refund and compensate you. Stick him in front of the judge on a Form 4 for fraud if he doesn't cooperate.

[lizzy40]

My facts I can only go by what I have be advised or learnt on here.

 

I hope I have all the right information - I am prepaired to take it further and also report them to the council concerned.

[lizzy40]

Does serve notice mean just speaking to the debtor at the premise or handing a letter to the debtor at the premises or both?

 

Last question must go home!

[Bongo Dancer]

Serving notice means to formally tell somebody something. A bailiff can charge a fee for a visit. If proof to the contrary the bailiff has not made that visit then the bailiff should be asked to give on oath the particulars of the visit giving rise to a fee.

[chris600uk]

Does serve notice mean just speaking to the debtor at the premise or handing a letter to the debtor at the premises or both?

 

That depends entirely on the action.

 

So for instance, if it is a Freezing Order, then you must sign for it, it must be given to you, and the delivery person must establish that you are the person the order concerns.

 

As far as council tax is concerned, it seems that just posting the first two letters through the door is enough.

 

I do appreciate what BD is saying, but while there's an obvious difference between a postman and a bailiff, for practical purposes they get to be the same, and so far I've found that the only fact that seems to matter is that a certificated bailiff actually turned up to stick it through your door.

That's why around here the first one is called the Notice of Distress and the second one is called the Notice of Re-attendance or some similar name.

 

It's all bulls**t really, that's why they sometimes try posting one and charging for two visits.

[casbah]

Hi

 

Just to chip in..............Linzie are you in the south east?

 

I have a long on going battle with newlyns, they have charged me for visits,levies and "enforcement fees" and the strange thing is, the levy and enforcement dates are the same day. I have queried this but have been given the brush off, but I gritted my teeth and hung on in there,only to receive a letter last week telling me I had overpaid and the local council and bailiff has decided that money would go towards this years liability, that I am paying via a standing order and am not behind with.

 

The letter offered to discuss this over the 'phone.Like I'm that stupid.

 

I have asked for a breakdown of fees,received a statement ( thats how I know the dates)

 

The guy has never knocked my door, I've never seen him, yet he claims he has levied against my possessions yet when I have asked for a copy of the list of goods he has levied, it falls on deaf ears and I am fobbed off. They even levied against a car that belonged to a neighbour, promising that when they have confirmation of ownership they will be in touch, I'm still waiting!!!! and that was February 08.

 

So, basically do you think they have the right to spend my money for me?

 

I am extremely wary of the local council as they seem to be the one calling the shots, and the senior revenues collector even told me the bailiffs can charge whatever they want, when I pointed out they couldn't she told me my information was out of date!!!!!!!!!!!! Like to nail her too

[lizzy40]

When I spoke to the council to check how much was out standing I was also told whatever newlyns where asking for I had to pay he said they can charge what they want.

 

I have also had this in writing from my council so I have had two council staff telling me this. They are so wrong giving this information out as far as I am concerned they are just as bad as Newlyns that's why I want to take it further.

 

It is a long drawn out process but its important to gather all the correct information before making an official complaint.

 

Have you read my posts lots of good information?

 

I hope someone can give you some advice about them holding your money because that really does not sound correct.