Jump to content


Help! Is this a valid CCA or not please?


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 5656 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Hi all,

 

My OH received this document in response to a CCA request:

 

CCA1.jpg

 

Could someone kindly advise if it's enforcable or not please?

 

No T&C's overleaf as it's a single sided document.

 

A statement of payments was also recieved in the form of computer printouts with OH's name on but not on headed paper.

 

Thanks, PossVox :)

LOWELLS-Stat Demand Set Aside-No CCA & Statute Barred-£1800-Gone Away-April 2008

 

Scotcall on behalf of Cabot-£2200-no CCA returned to Cabot-file closed-March 2009

 

Cabot-Court Claim issued despite no CCA and Stat Barred-Claim discontinued-March 2009

__________________________________________

 

IF I HAVE BEEN HELPFUL PLEASE CLICK MY SCALES. :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Firstly: its an application form, not an executed agreement (see the bit where it states "I understand Brittania personal lending ltd have the right to decline this application")

 

In my view this would make it void under Section 59 "agreement that purports to bind a debtor into a future regulated agreement is void"

 

CCA request (if carried out properly using template from this site or similar?) has not been fulfilled - requires the creditor to supply a copy of the original executed agreement and "any other document referred to therein" (T and C's mentioned, yet as you state, no T and C's copy)

 

 

I find the element of the cost of delivery being added to the credit questionable - this is the kind of element that lead to Wilson's agreement being declared unenforceable in Wilson v First County Trust, Court of Appeal (and later v Secretary of State for Trade and Industry, House of Lords)

 

 

 

 

When running through dual calc (OFT interest calculator) it comes out at 17.9% APR not 16.6, but this could be due to the 2 month delay in payments

 

Would like to hear others opinion on this?

 

 

No statements of protection as required by the CCA 1974 and further detailed by SI1553

 

Thats for starters

 

Anyone else care to add?

 

 

(caveat of course: I am NOT legally qualified, this is based on aquired knowledge!!)

 

 

  • Haha 3

omnia praesumuntur legitime facta donec probetur in contrarium

 

 

Please note: I am not a member of the legal profession, all advice given is purely my opinion, if in doubt consult a professional

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanx so much for the speedy, and may I add, very thorough reply!

 

We sort of guessed as much but it's nice to get it confirmed by someone with more experience.

 

Thanx again. :D

 

PossVox

(p.s. I'll tip your scales in a minute or 2!):)

LOWELLS-Stat Demand Set Aside-No CCA & Statute Barred-£1800-Gone Away-April 2008

 

Scotcall on behalf of Cabot-£2200-no CCA returned to Cabot-file closed-March 2009

 

Cabot-Court Claim issued despite no CCA and Stat Barred-Claim discontinued-March 2009

__________________________________________

 

IF I HAVE BEEN HELPFUL PLEASE CLICK MY SCALES. :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi HAK,

 

No, just the doc I posted.

 

The doc says 'T&C overleaf' but it's blank on the back.

 

:confused:

LOWELLS-Stat Demand Set Aside-No CCA & Statute Barred-£1800-Gone Away-April 2008

 

Scotcall on behalf of Cabot-£2200-no CCA returned to Cabot-file closed-March 2009

 

Cabot-Court Claim issued despite no CCA and Stat Barred-Claim discontinued-March 2009

__________________________________________

 

IF I HAVE BEEN HELPFUL PLEASE CLICK MY SCALES. :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Write to them and tell them they are still in brach of section 77-79 due to the lack of T&C.

 

See what they come back with

 

Something like below will be ok for now.

 

Re: Consumer Credit Agreement 1974 Request

 

Thank you for your letter dated 26th September 2007.

I must inform you that you have yet to present all the information required.

The sections pacifically states that all documents mentioned must be presented. The original terms and conditions which form an integrated part of the agreement are missing.

I must remind you that until this information is made available the agreement is still in default and any action taken by you to enforce it will be in breach of section 78 and will be reported to the appropriate authorities.

You’re faithfully

Link to post
Share on other sites

HAK

 

what do you think to my issue above about the delivery fee being included in the credit?

omnia praesumuntur legitime facta donec probetur in contrarium

 

 

Please note: I am not a member of the legal profession, all advice given is purely my opinion, if in doubt consult a professional

Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont agree.

 

Section 78(1) says and all other documents. T&C are a key piece of info.

 

They are still in default under section 78(6) so they cannot enforce the debt.

 

HAK

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well at the end of the day its the judge who decides...personally I wouldnt feel confident going into court with an agreement that contains prescribed terms as I dont think there is case law to support this..?

Live Life-Debt Free

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes true, but a big presumption that DCA's and banks would know that ive sent to different dca's a CCA request for a overdraft and told the second its still in dispute with the first and havent heard anything since:-) i know this hasnt closed the file as it were but has kept them off my back for awhile at least so i can sort my life out8)

All comments are well meant but i am not legally qualified only CAG educated:D

 

 

In the slight chance i have been helpful please click the scales:)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I always thought that if a 'cca' didn't contain all the terms and conditions, then it couldn't be enforced. Am I wrong?

The 'cca' posted above has a section titled 'notice to customer' where it mentions 'the terms and conditions overleaf' IF this were to go to court, wouldn't a judge take into account that there is no 'overleaf'? Would a judge be able to make a fair judgement if he himself can't refer to those T&C's?

I have no idea how enforceable this is - this is all new to me too. But it's certainly an interesting subject. I'm not sure about how valid a computer printout of a statement of payments is either if it's not on headed paper. If it's just a printout, that's the sort of thing that anyone with access to a computer could do! Personally I would have thought that it should be on headed paper, but perhaps they only use that for their 'threatograms'

Is it valid if it's just on ordinary paper does anyone know?

:o You can't give a baby booze! :o

Link to post
Share on other sites

There is not a defined answer because its decided by the judge, so if you have a confident legal argument and they have a weak un- briefed lawyer and the judge prefers your argument to his/hers then you win......up until that time you are playing poker with the DCA and its the first to fold........they are not going to give up easily and depending on where they are in the food chain if they give up then will probably sell the debt on down the line.

Live Life-Debt Free

Link to post
Share on other sites

Forgive me if I am wrong, but an enforceable CCA has to include the rate of interest to be applied. The document shown above only shows an APR. If I am right then it is unenforceable.

Link to post
Share on other sites

From SI 1553

 

[Assumptions about running-account credit

1

In the case of an agreement for running-account credit, the following assumptions shall have effect for the purpose of

calculating the APR in place of the assumptions in Part 4 of the Total Charge for Credit Regulations that might otherwise

apply--

(1) in any case where there will be a credit limit but that limit is not known at the date of making the agreement the

amount of the credit to be provided shall be taken to be £1,500 or, in a case where the credit limit will be less than

£1,500, an amount equal to that limit;

(2) it shall be assumed that the credit is provided for a period of one year beginning with the relevant date;

(3) it shall be assumed that the credit is provided in full on the relevant date;

(4) where the rate of interest will change at a time provided in the agreement within a period of three years beginning

with the date of the making of the agreement, the rate shall be taken to be the highest rate at any time obtaining under the

agreement in that period;

Page 37 of 50

Live Life-Debt Free

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you look at STICKY Thread, Is my Agreement enforceable and read through it, the advise on their is that APR is not Interest Rate. I knew I had seen it somewhere. APR includes other matters apart from interest rate applied.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 5 months later...

Hi,

 

I'm posting this for my OH as she is out at work.

 

Letter came for her today from Nelson Guest and Partners of Sidcup Kent stating that they have been instructed by Westcot. Letter gives her 10 days to make a payment or agree a payment plan or they will take court action without further notice.

 

The majority of opinion here seems to be that they have provided an enforcable CCA, although there are some who have put forward complex arguements which say it may not be.

 

My OH is prepared to pay the money but needs to chalenge the charges and the PPI costs as this should substantially reduce the amount she would end up paying.

 

Does anyone have a good letter or a template to send to Westcot to put the account into further dispute re charges and buy her some more time before they go to court?

 

She is also looking for advice how to claim the illegal charges and PPI. Does she claim from the OC?

 

Sorry to ask so many questions all at once.

 

Many thanks

 

PV :)

LOWELLS-Stat Demand Set Aside-No CCA & Statute Barred-£1800-Gone Away-April 2008

 

Scotcall on behalf of Cabot-£2200-no CCA returned to Cabot-file closed-March 2009

 

Cabot-Court Claim issued despite no CCA and Stat Barred-Claim discontinued-March 2009

__________________________________________

 

IF I HAVE BEEN HELPFUL PLEASE CLICK MY SCALES. :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi PossVox, send all the paperwork to the FOS particularly with regard to the PPI and tell Westcot that you are doing this and that the account is in dispute due to unlawful charges and the possible mis-selling of ppi.

 

G & M, sorry no good at maths but think Hell has

nofury in the ppi section is a whiz on these matters.

 

[Oo-er, you're not like that person on the advert are you pouring it into the box of cornflakes and eating them in the car?] This relates to a comment originally on Gin and Milk's thread before post was moved

Edited by slick132
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...