Black Horse and Car Land

[deemacperth]

Have a look at this thread mate

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legalities/19616-recoverable-costs.html

 

I think we may be able to claim back some initial legal costs, something like £80, but that could pay for an hour with a solicitor helping you to prepare what to base your claim on.

[jo5ephedward5]

Update:

I Have Just Posted my D.S.A.R to CarLand for this account – I will be posting one to Black Horse this week too! - its taken a while as had so many thing to deal with - this site is amazing but does nothing for you free time lol.

I have also sent a letter to Black Horse enquiring why they have place the vehicle on the HPI register and stated it is mis-use of the register etc.

I will update you when the inform comes in and maybe split the thread into one for Black Horse and one for CarLand - then i can tackel each issue at a time!

[Surfer01]

Before you do anything contact your citizens Advice Bureau and also Trading Standards.

[jo5ephedward5]

Before you do anything contact your citizens Advice Bureau and also Trading Standards.

 

Spoken to Trading Standards and they were rubbish!

They said if the final agreement has been signed there is nothing I can do as even if they have added stuff to it out of my sight then brought me the forms I should still have read them before signing! (very true but I didn’t expect this!)

They also said no point in trying to remove the car from the HPI register as the small print says that if I sell the car I muct inform Black Horse and pay in full within 7 days – not sure what this has to do with putting my car on the HPI register without being informed!

I don’t want to see Citizens Advise until I have whole picture hence the DSAR to both firms, when I have the info I can either go seek professional help for this matter or indeed it may be so clear that I can deal with it myself…until the info comes back I just don’t know.

[suttonh]

Hi

 

It is possible to get the car removed from the HPI register i have just had a letter from Black Horse's solicitors this morning telling me that they have instructed Black Horse to remove it from the HPI register.

 

I wrote to Black Horse last week threatening to report them to the Finance and Leasing Association for misuse of the HPI register as the agreement can not be both a personal loan and HPI and it has been removed today.

 

I am in the position where they served County Court papers on me so i filed a defensive that as it was registered on the HPI register it must be HP so therefore i could give the car back and low and behold a week later the car is removed from the register.

 

it is worth writing to Black Horse and threatning them because they are misusing the HPI register.

 

i hope this helps you a little bit.

 

good luck.

[jo5ephedward5]

thanks, i'm glad someone has gotten somewhere - i have done this and given them 14days to complete it - that runs out on the 2nd of September...

 

 

I think everyone i have spoken to that has a black horse loan has had their car placed on the HPI register - i'll be writing to the FLA and asking them to investigate this as its not fair for Black horse to have their cake and eat it.

[suttonh]

i totally agree with you that is my next step.

 

I have spoken to my local Trading Standards and the lady i have been dealing with is very interested in what Black Horse are doing and she asked to have all correspondence with Black Horse sent to her so she can look into it as well (which is good news i hope).

 

it is just a thought and i don't know if they can help but i am going to write to the Financial Services Authority as well.

 

I only bought the car from the dealer as i thought it was a HP agreement i would have gone to the bank for a personal loan if that is what i wanted and been spared all this hassle.

 

The dealership completely mis-lead me into thinking it was a HP agreement. I know they say you should read the agreement properly but what naive consumber desperate for a car knows the difference from a HP agremeent and the agreements Black Horse are churning out to consumers they are telling them the car is registered on HP so you think it is a HP agreement but later on they are telling you it is a personal loan agreement it is totally underhand way of doing business in my opinion.

 

I am just glad i have found somebody else in the situation as me.

[jo5ephedward5]

Yeah i have to say my dealership did the same - i assumed it was HP - i should have read terms and conditions but the way he was talking i just guessed it was HP.

 

Black Horse are breaking the rules by adding the cars to the HPI register but the Dealership i used have played me like a fiddle!

 

I'll be tackeling them next - mis sold PPI, amanding documents i signed adding warrenties etc etc and charging me for stuff i never recieved - all the fun of the fair sure the D.S.A.R will bring up all sorts!

 

the only good news about this is my Dad is currently renting my car off me which is more than covering the payments and i guess as its been 2 years and i havent missed a payment the credit file will look better

[jo5ephedward5]

thanks, i'm glad someone has gotten somewhere - i have done this and given them 14days to complete it - that runs out on the 2nd of September...

 

 

I think everyone i have spoken to that has a black horse loan has had their car placed on the HPI register - i'll be writing to the FLA and asking them to investigate this as its not fair for Black horse to have their cake and eat it.

 

 

well 14 days is over even adding 2 extra for delayed post - what should be my next move - LBA - but what action can i take - obviously reporting them to Trading Standards and FSA but i feel this still wont be enough?

 

what are peoples thoughts?

[jo5ephedward5]

Update:

I Have Just Posted my D.S.A.R to CarLand for this account – I will be posting one to Black Horse this week too! - its taken a while as had so many thing to deal with - this site is amazing but does nothing for you free time lol.

I have also sent a letter to Black Horse enquiring why they have place the vehicle on the HPI register and stated it is mis-use of the register etc.

I will update you when the inform comes in and maybe split the thread into one for Black Horse and one for CarLand - then i can tackel each issue at a time!

 

OK got my DSAR info from CarLand yesterday - they have sent me all the forms i have already inc. a copy of the one that the salesman changed his recomendation from NO warrenty to yesh please!!! (see earlier posts) the thing is again this is not the agrement but a form requesting various extras - it has been signed by me but he has defo altered it! the way it works is every product has a recomendation sheet - the salesman explains all the options and then ticks yes or no depending on my answer - then i sign the order form in the main showroom and the salesman then takes it to his office out of my sight to be processed onto the agrement.

 

there was also a couple of forms that have huge typing stating that they had asked me if i wanted PPi etc and i had said yes...i didnt get offered it its just been added i have never seen these forms before and cant see there relevance...my issue is they have recommended these they have included them in the plan - no where does it say i have taken up these recommendations - nor are there any order forms like the other products! - it was all done verbally then he went out the back to print the forms they came back and i signed assuming i would only get the items i asked for!

 

Finally i added to my DSAR that i wanted a copy of all correspondace made with the finance company and they concluded that they destroy this info after 3 months

 

They never cashed the cheque but they also never returned it - is it safe to say this wont come out now?

 

sorry if this is waffel - if it doesnt make sense then please ask!

[jo5ephedward5]

:? Hello – ok this is a long one and I’m now going to issue the following letters to Black Horse and Carland – any comments would be good as I’m posting them 5pm tomorrow!!!

 

BLACK HORSE:

 

1. D.S.A.R As per standard template

 

2. Letter of complain about their lack of response to my request to remove my data from the HPI register

Dear Sir or Madam:

Account number – XXX

Vehicle Registration – XXX

Dear Sir or Madame,

I am writing in relation to my recent letter (dated 16.08.2006 – see attached copy).

I am very disappointed that you have not responded or acknowledged my complaint. I hereby grant you an additional 7 days from receipt of this letter to resolve this matter by removing your interest from the vehicle in question, erasing any information regarding an outstanding balance from the HPI register,

Should I not hear from you this will be my last correspondence before action on the matter.

Failure to act will result in a complaint to the Financial & Leasing Association for misuse of the HPI register and the Office of Fair Trading for breach of your consumer credit license.

I have also been in communication with Trading Standards over this matter and they have taken a particular interest in my case, they are confident that you are abusing the use of the HPI register by providing them with personal loan details for a car that was not supplied under a Hire Purchase agreement.

I shall look forward to your response.

Yours Faithfully

3. Letter of complaint about mis-sold PPI

Dear Sir or Madam:

Account number – XXXX

Vehicle Registration – XXXX

COMPLAINT

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

I took out the above loan for £9,116.00 for a car on the 09/02/2005.

 

Owing to a different matter regarding a product I paid for and never received, I requested a copy of all correspondence held by the Dealership (CarLand of Cannock).

 

In order to have a full view of what information they held I issued a Data Subject Access Request to gain copies of all data held. Amongst the information I received, there were copies of payment protection insurance terms and conditions. As I never requested Payment Protection for either of the loans taken out that day I re-read all the small print in my contract with Black Horse and have noticed it is indeed in the contract that I signed up for Payment Protection Insurance.

 

I never requested this insurance and was most defiantly not offered it as an option or notified it would be added.

 

As I never required this and CarLand seem have taken it upon themselves to include it without my permission, I would request that the policy is cancelled with immediate affect.

 

I have been advised that I should be able to cancel the PPI contract at any time and receive a partial refund of the premium that I have paid - I would like to do this. Additionally in view of the way I was mis-sold the insurance, I would like to ask for a full refund of the whole premium.

 

I would appreciate a reply to this letter within fourteen days. If you reject this complaint, I would be grateful if you could explain whether you provide an internal appeals process. If you do not, please supply me with a final response letter, so that I can take up the matter with the Financial Ombudsman Service.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

CARLAND:

1: Letter of Compliant about mis-sold and never applied Paint Protection

Date: 22.09.2006

Dear Sir or Madam:

Vehicle Registration – XXXX

 

COMPLAINT

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

Thank you for your recent compliance with my Data Subject Access Request.

 

Amongst the information I received, there were copies of the terms and conditions. Upon carefully reading them again I have noticed that I have been charged £100 for Sureguard Paint Protection – I was assured that this was ‘in with the deal’ by the salesman dealing with me – however it appears the deal was I pay for it even thought I never received it!

 

I did not and do not want this and was re-assured on numerous occasions that I didn’t need to worry about it as it was in with the deal .

 

As I never required this and CarLand seem have taken it upon themselves to include it as standard, I would request that the total of £100 is refunded immediately. I also request that you return the interest I am currently paying for the duration of the agreement as a result of this which is £24.55 calculated at a typical 9%apr

 

I would appreciate a reply to this letter within fourteen days. If you reject this complaint, and do not refund me accordingly, I would be grateful if you could explain whether you provide an internal appeals process. If you do not, please supply me with a final response letter, so that I can take up the matter with the Financial Ombudsman Service, Trading Standards and finally make a claim via the small Claims Court for total owing for a mis-sold and un-received product.

 

I look forward to your response.

 

Yours faithfully,

2: Letter of Compliant about altered agreement to include additional warranty!

Date: 22.09.2006

Dear Sir or Madam:

Vehicle Registration – XXX

 

COMPLAINT

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

Thank you for your recent compliance with my Data Subject Access Request.

 

Amongst the information I received, there were copies of the Loan agreement terms and conditions. My main reason for requesting this information was due to a disconcerting form I found regarding ordered ‘extras’ to be purchased under a separate loan provided by Black Horse via CarLand.

 

The form in question (copy attached) suggests that I required an additional 12 month warranty.

 

This was not the case and as you can see NO has clearly been crossed. When I was offered this I stated that my farther was qualified mechanic and that the sum of £856 was more than a complete replacement engine would cost on the particular base model of the Vauxhall Corsa in question – we even joked about it!

 

The form was completed in one of your showroom ‘booths’ and the salesman returned to his office to draw up the second loan form consisting of the additional products I had requested - via the attached order form. I have now noticed after close scrutiny that this order form has been altered by the salesman seemingly out of my sight and the order has been put through with the additional £856 premium for the warranty. You can clearly see on the order form that it has been changed to YES and the alternations initialled by the salesman – if this had been altered with my permission it should be my initials to approve the amendments! The form was returned to me with the assortment of forms that I had signed that day and I thought no more on the matter until today.

 

I’m quite frankly outraged by this – why would anyone pay over 5 years at 9% APR for a product that adds cover to a vehicle for just 12months? The Car was under 3 years old and was probably still covered by the manufactures warranty. Additionally I have spoken to Vauxhall who have expressed to me that any car under 3 years old should not be defected to the point of where a 5th of its value is require in repairs at any one time, this is why an M.O.T is not required for the first 3 years.

 

To resolve this matter I request you return the sum of £856 plus £209.66 interest that I will have to pay over the course of the agreement.

 

I would appreciate a reply to this letter within fourteen days. If you reject this complaint, and do not refund me accordingly, I would be grateful if you could explain whether you provide an internal appeals process. If you do not, please supply me with a final response letter, so that I can take up the matter with the Financial Ombudsman Service, Trading Standards and finally make a claim via the small Claims Court for total owing to a miss-sold warranty and suspected fraudulent activities to make financial gains

 

I look forward to your response.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

hope you stayed awake - any comments?

[jo5ephedward5]

as i hadnt had anyones feed back i have yet to post any of the above letters (that and the drunken excuss that was my works bonding weekend!)

 

does anyone have any comments - i'm illiterate at the best of times so please go easy lol!

 

i need to get this going asap - its so dam complicated as i know both firms will try and blame me for it!

[jo5ephedward5]

OK i'm posting in the these in the moring - its not to late to comment - i'll keep you all posted of any progress!

 

J

[jo5ephedward5]

OK - i have posted the letters to Black horse and at last some acknowledgment!

I have had a letter saying they have received my complaint and are looking into it – they will have an answer by November 14th 2006 – mmm well it had better be the correct answer else I wont be amused! – but at least they have now acknowledged it! (hand signed too so a real live person is looking at it J )

I have yet to send the Carland letters as i would like to deal woth one company at a time and think a phrase blood and stone will come to mind when using CarLands complaint team!.

[buzby]

As a side issue to this, in addition to HPI you may find that the DVLA also hold details of BH as having a 'beneficial interest' in the vehicle. If the HPI reference is remoived, you might like to get their assurance that the DVLA has also been informed. (The DVLA's additional data on firms with an interest is tied to the chassis number, and does not appear on the V5 or other documentation normally received by the registered keeper).

[jo5ephedward5]

As a side issue to this, in addition to HPI you may find that the DVLA also hold details of BH as having a 'beneficial interest' in the vehicle. If the HPI reference is remoived, you might like to get their assurance that the DVLA has also been informed. (The DVLA's additional data on firms with an interest is tied to the chassis number, and does not appear on the V5 or other documentation normally received by the registered keeper).

 

Thanks - i didnt know that and with some luck i will get this removed from the HPI register - i'll ask for written confirmation that all data has been removed from the DVLA data-base too!

[buzby]

It's overlooked because it's not publicly aparent to the Keeper. The information the finance house has access to is limited, but just as I was about to complain to the DVLA for a breach of the Data Protection Act, I noticed on the DVLA website under the 'How we use your data' section, the list of organisations they will disclose information to, and there it was! I still don't think it is right, as they go to great pains to point out the 'keeper' isn't necessarily the owner... or driver. But armed with the information you can hopefully kill two birds with one stone!

[jo5ephedward5]

Brilliant - thanks again!

[Sparkie1723]

To Each and everyone having bother with Black Horse Finance Limited

to comply with the Data Protection Act 1998, in order to process data about individuals, obtain, collect, hold, store, pass, each and every person (including Limited Compaies) MUST register with the ICO and obtain a licence to do so. Section 16 of the Act states that with a limited company the address on the licence MUST be that of its registered office. I give you this information as a FACT because I,m using this against Black Horse Ltd a different company but still owned by Lloyds TSB but it still applies to Black Horse Finance Ltd their registered Office is Gresham Street London the address registered with the ICO is 51 Holdensworth Road Bourmouth Dorset BH8 8EP.....This is not a breach f the data protection act ITS AN OFFENCE and carries a fine of £5000 they are incorrectly registered as per stated in section 16, & BECAUSE SECTION 17 STATES THAT NO DATA SHALL BE PROCESSED UNLESS THE DATA CONTROLLER IS REGISTERED ( AND I MEAN CORRECTLY) THEY ARE COMMITTING ANOTHER OFFENCE... tHIS OFFENCE ...........IS A CRIMINAL OFFENCE UNDER THE ACT REPORT THEM TO THE ICO STRAIGHT AWAY dont take my word check for yourselves, Log onto the ICO web site... then.... read the full data protection act, then CHapter 111 Section 16 to 24 its a bit heavy at first but you'll soon get the message, these Banks think they can bend all the laws to suit them selves.

[jo5ephedward5]

UPDATE:

 

well i have now had a letter saying the PPI will be canceled as soon as i confirm by signing a slip they have sent me and returning it - this is saving me £30 per month over the next 3.5 years so that will add up - there is no mention of returning the premium already paid - shoudl i persue this? if so how do i do that?

 

Still no word on the HPI register but they did say there would be by the 14th - we'll see!

[jo5ephedward5]

Ok – got home last night to another Black Horse letter,

Basically said they are willing to cancel my PPI but have attached a copy of my signed agreement stating (in the very small print) that I had agreed to it – I’m not disputing the agreement but the way in which it was added without my knowledge, (yes I should have read the 4 pages of small print but I felt under pressure with the salesman breathing down my neck) – their letter goes on to say this wouldn’t have been the case and they would have told me at the time of signing – but they didn’t L

It says due to this I will get no refund on premiums paid so far – so that’s over £600 I won’t see again!

It also said that they note my concerns over the car being placed on the HPI register – they said this IS a person loan but they will keep my car on the HPI register as the vehicle has outstanding finance on it – now correct me if I’m wrong but its surely me that has outstanding finance not my car – they said at the end of the agreement they will remove it or I can pay a sum of £4500 to clear it, for the record this is what I paid for the car 18months ago so I’ve so far paid nearly £3000 in interest and not touched the capital!

I’m slightly lost as to what to do now…LBA threatening action – but what action do I threaten?

[buzby]

To my mind their use of the HPI register for a Personal Loan is a misuse of the register. The loan could have been for Double Glazing and htere was nothing they could do - so what they've done is secure the personal loan on the vehicle - and to my mind that's a secured loan and you should have had the benedit of a lower interest rate because of this.

 

As to the PPI, you'd really have to catch a judge on a good day to get him to support you on this element, especially it could be pointed out you had a copy of the agreement and could have raised queries at its inception. It IS a lot, but at least that is something less to worry about.

[jo5ephedward5]

in all honestly i think i will let the PPI go and just send them a letter to agre to the new terms and make sure i voice my dissapointment in their lack of customer service when i first complained and their limited efford to resolve this matter

 

how ever the HPI thing is a bit more difficult - TS cant seem to advice me when i call them - i'm at a bit of a loss tbh.

 

not sure who or what to threaten them with in a LBA...any idea guys?

[buzby]

Id throw this back to the Finance House - say that their abuse of the HPI register for a personal loan had meant they've got a secured loan, so the interest you are being charged is excessive. You want them to (a) release the HPI flag OR (b) Recalculate the loan as one that is secured, at the appropriate rate, and to repay the overpayment.

 

That should focus their attention!

[jo5ephedward5]

lol - i like your angle on this but i get the feeling that although they should charge less interest they can still charge what they like - i didnt have to accept it - but then i didnt know it was 'secured'!!!

 

i hate dealing with sub-prime lenders...it wont happen again, i'll go without first!