Egg credit card agreement terminated

[toymaker1]

Personally, I got my PPI money back from Egg, after all the expected ceremonial shouting and kicking by them and refusals to pay initially. They sent me a sound file of the sales conversation with one of their sales agents in which I clearly stated that I worked abroad and so they eventually had to complain. However separately, I disputed the CCA enforceability. By the way, Egg cannot unilaterally call a dispute settled and "close" a complaint just because they say so. Keep the complaint going and that way, they cannot lawfully pass the account to third parties, such as DCAs.

 

Everything you say is correct, but the problem AJsmith68 has is that the matter has gone past the complaint situation. and he/she has been served with a court claim form. Therefore he/she needs to be very specific in the defence part of the claim form, and at this stage cannot afford to bring in any matters except the central issue, the central issue being that Egg terminated the agreement outside the provisions of CCA 1974. That issue alone will ensure that Egg will have to answer some very difficult questions to the court. The next stage will be that the court will send AJsmith's defence to Egg, and will ask Egg what they have to say about his defence. Egg will have to admit that AJ's defence is fundamentally correct. I speak as someone in the exact same position.

[aj_smith68]

OK, thanks everyone. This really helpful and reassuring.

 

So has anyone actually responded to a claim form yet and had the outcome? Anyone got a word for word response I can use that has already been 100% successful. What I dont want is to respond to it and it to go away for a bit, then for them to come back in another 6 months and try again? How can I get them to clear the account and clear my credit file? Or am I asking for too much.....?

 

Given I have a second card that will be in a similar situation (although I ahve not yet been served with court papers yet) what should I do to nip it in the bud?

 

RE: PPI - to be honest, I would happily write off the PPI in exchange for the debt being written off. So I wont mention it initially seeing as that seems to be the overiding view here.

[toymaker1]

Anyone got a word for word response I can use that has already been 100% successful. What I dont want is to respond to it and it to go away for a bit, then for them to come back in another 6 months and try again? How can I get them to clear the account and clear my credit file? Or am I asking for too much.....?

 

Yes, you are asking for too much. No one can guarantee anything for you.

All you can do is use your common sense and weigh up the advice people give you.

For what it is worth, I have already given you a word for word response which you can put into box 3 of the Response form to the claim.

If the situation is as you have posted, then that is all you need to put.

. The sooner you do it, the sooner the matter will get sorted.

If you have clearly understood what I posted, you will realise that Egg have no case.

It is beyond any dispute that Egg have terminated your agreement outside the provisions of CCA 1974. - and that is permitted.

You have all the relevant information you need to enter your defence in box 3. Just do it.

 

Regards.

[aj_smith68]

Toymaker what happened in your case as you say that you are in the exact same position. Did you get court claim forms? If yours has not gone to that stage how did you avoid it? I still have a second card which I am sure they are likely to try the same tactic with. What should I be doing now to try and avoid a similar situation?

 

Does anybody think that Bryan Carter are aware that these cases they are trying to take to court are for terminated agreements?

 

Any repiles will be gratefully received.

 

Thanks

[toymaker1]

Toymaker what happened in your case as you say that you are in the exact same position. Did you get court claim forms? If yours has not gone to that stage how did you avoid it? I still have a second card which I am sure they are likely to try the same tactic with. What should I be doing now to try and avoid a similar situation?

 

Does anybody think that Bryan Carter are aware that these cases they are trying to take to court are for terminated agreements?

 

Any repiles will be gratefully received.

 

Thanks

 

This is a letter I sent to Collect Direct in 2008. They did not answer it, but passed the case to Trevor Munn Solictors. I sent a similar letter to Trevor Munn.

 

 

Collect Direct (UK)

Jason House

Kerry Hill

Horsforth

Leeds

LS18 4JR

 

Our Ref: xxxxx

Your Ref:xxxxx

Date:xxxxxx

 

 

Dear xxxxxx

 

 

 

Re: Termination by Egg of my Egg Account No. xxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Thank you for your letter dated xxxxxx.

 

1. I note your confirmation that Egg Banking Plc has appointed you as it’s agent, and that consequently you are authorised to act with full authority on Egg’s behalf in connection with the outstanding dispute between Egg and myself regarding the termination by Egg of my Egg credit card agreement with effect from 6th March 2008.

 

2. As Egg’s authorised agent, you will be aware that the credit card agreement between Egg and myself is governed by the Consumer Credit Act 1974, therefore I would be grateful if you would indicate to me the relevant section of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 which provides Egg with legal entitlement to terminate my Egg credit agreement with effect from 6th March 2008.

 

Yours faithfully

 

xxxxxxxx

 

 

Trevor Munn passed the case to Morgan Solictors. I sent the folllowing letter to Morgan solictors.

 

 

 

Morgan Solicitors

P. O. Box 250

West Malling

Kent ME19 4EX

 

Our Ref: xxxxx

Your Ref: xxxxxx

xxxxxx 2009

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Morgan Solicitors

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for your letter dated xxxxxxx.

 

1.

In the course of preparing a County Court Claim on behalf of your client, Cabot Financial (UK) Limited, you will have become aware that the debt claimed by your client is disputed by me.

2.

My reasons for disputing the debt, as both you and your client will be aware, are set out in my letters xxxx to xxxx inclusive. As you know, paragraph 2.8 k. of the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance of July 2003, updated in December 2006, makes it clear that collection activity must cease whilst investigating a disputed debt. I look forward to the results of your investigation.

3.

In the event that the dispute between Egg Banking plc and myself is put before a court for adjudication, I will draw the court’s attention to the following points.

3a

Both you and your client, Cabot Financial (UK) Limited, although fully aware that the debt is disputed, have continued collection activity in breach of Section 2.8k. of the OFT Debt Collection Guidance.

3b.

Both you and your client, Cabot Financial (UK) Limited, although fully aware that the debt is disputed, have accepted assignment of the disputed account. You will be aware that this is in breach of Sections 2.6c and 2.8f of the OFT Debt Collection Guidance, and also in breach of the Data Protection Act 1998.

4.

I also consider your client’s actions amount to psychological harassment within the terms of section 2.6h. of the OFT Guidelines, in that your client has ignored and disregarded the fact that I have reasonably queried and disputed the debt.

5.

I will also draw the attention of the court to the manner in which both you and your client have acted in respect of the dispute between Egg Banking and myself, which I consider amounts to an unfair relationship in terms of section 140 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 as amended by the Consumer Credit Act 2006, and I will request the court to make an appropriate Order under S140 of the Act.

6.

I am confident that Egg Banking and Cabot Financial (UK) Limited and Morgan Solicitors will, as I will, provide to the court full records of the matters to which I have referred, including copies of my letters xxxx to xxxxx.

 

 

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

I have not heard from them since November 2009.

 

The one question none of them can answer, and it will be the same in court, is - Which part of the CCA 1974 provides Egg with authority to terminate my Egg agreement?

They cannot answer it because there is no answer.

A creditor can only terminate an agreement within the provisions of CCA 1974. i.e. default, S87 of CCA 1974.

That is covered in my suggested defence. That is sufficient to deal with the immediate situation.

The court will send them a copy of that defence, and they will have to decide how to respond. - my guess is they will either drop the case, or dig a deeper hole by trying to justify their termination. But that wont fool the court.

As I have said, there is only one way they can terminat the agreement, that is set out by the provisions of S87 of CCA.

[chelsealove]

I think in all probability BC do know that they are dealing with the Egg agreements in the sense that you mean.

 

If you look at other threads concerning BC, their reputation is for putting in claim forms and getting a default judgment. Most of the time, the Defendants have either moved on or alternatively don't know what to do with the paperwork.

 

A default judgment occurs if you don't put in a Defence. The Judge won't even bother looking at the paperwork in any detail if you haven't responded to the Claim Form with a Defence.

 

Their logic is undoubtedly if they issue 5000 claim forms, then even if 4000 go through and they're forced to drop 1000 where there's a good defence, then they've made a huge amount of money for their client. My own feeling is they'll probably drop the claim if the Defence is done properly - Bryan Carter Sols are not a commercial specialist in this area and they would be using a better firm if they wanted to conduct a trial case. If it was someone like my old firm or one of the heavyweight magic circle firms, like Clifford Chance, then you might have been in serious trouble because it meant they were using you a potentially nasty test case. But like I said, a good Defence should get rid of these people. I can't guarantee it, but BC have form for dropping and running when faced down.

 

As far as I know the current situation continues to be that if the credit agreement is invalid or non - existant, then the DEBT arguably remains [with all of the harassment from debt companies and credit entries on your file] but it can't be enforced by the Courts in any way.

 

Make sure to put in that Defence!

[toymaker1]

 

If you look at other threads concerning BC, their reputation is for putting in claim forms and getting a default judgment. Most of the time, the Defendants have either moved on or alternatively don't know what to do with the paperwork.

 

A default judgment occurs if you don't put in a Defence. The Judge won't even bother looking at the paperwork in any detail if you haven't responded to the Claim Form with a Defence.

My own feeling is they'll probably drop the claim if the Defence is done properly.

 

As far as I know the current situation continues to be that if the credit agreement is invalid or non - existant, then the DEBT arguably remains [with all of the harassment from debt companies and credit entries on your file] but it can't be enforced by the Courts in any way.

 

Two very good points. That same thinking was behind the defence I suggested to AJsmith68.

[rickstich01]

Hi All

 

I am new to this site but have read your excellent posts. I have my Subject Information Request (DSIR) from Egg dated the 24th April 2009 which was sent to Consumer Credit Litigation but has been returned to me by Gordons ( We all know why) but although in the data screens the Termination letter is mentioned as being sent on the 29th January 2008 no copy is in the papers. Does this invalidate the DSIR under the 40 day rule?

[aj_smith68]

***UPDATE***

 

So I put my defence in as suggested by Toymaker (thank you for all your help) and got letter back from the bulk centre saying that I could now negotiate with BC/Egg and if they do not pursue the claim within 28 it is stayed and they will need permission from the court to pursue the claim at a later date.

 

I sent the letter suggested in relation to both cards I have, amending one slightly to accomodate for the fact they have not yet tried to take one to court. I have had a response (automated, clearly..) which I am not sure it is in direct response to my letter...it is difficult to say.

 

Basically the letter enclosed a bunch of statements from almost 2006 (no CCA enclosed although I already have requested this a while ago for both cards) and the letter says:

 

Dear Sir/Madam - Find enclosed statements which prove your liabilty for the account claim. Please now contact us within the next 10 days to arrange payment of this debt or we will persue our claim.

 

The statements are dated on this month and addressed "Dear Aaron" as if I ahve requested them, which is very bizarre, because I clearly havent!! Also, the statement from July 2009 shows a "charge off" on the account, which I have since discovered is not a good thing from a credit file prospective!! I had no idea they could do this or even had done, they certainly didnt tell me, they simply ignored me after I complained.

 

I am halfway through another letter to BC which I will probably cc into Egg as well. Basically reiterating that I dont owe them anything.

 

My main objective is to get them to go away and hopefully clear my credit file...how can I do this?? Do I ahve to play hard ball and put in a claim to against them to scare? Seeing as I have a charge off on my credit file now this seems so pointless, there doesnt appear a great deal of difference between this and a CCJ. What I really want is to get confirmation that they will leave me alone, debt cleared or not owed and to clear credsit file...? Any advice gratefully accepted.

[aj_smith68]

Have now received allocation questionnaire from court. Urgent advice required please. What do I need to do?

 

Do I have to ask Bryan Carter to provide documents to me such as copy of agreement? Do I ask them for copy of the letter terminating the agreement? Or shall I send them a copy? Or does it need to be attached to the allocation questionnaire?

 

Thanks

[toymaker1]

Have now received allocation questionnaire from court. Urgent advice required please. What do I need to do?

 

Do I have to ask Bryan Carter to provide documents to me such as copy of agreement? Do I ask them for copy of the letter terminating the agreement? Or shall I send them a copy? Or does it need to be attached to the allocation questionnaire?

 

Thanks

It would be useful if legally qualified Caggers could advise you, as it all gets a bit technical. However, for what it is worth, my advice would be to keep everything as simple as possible. - Remember, you are in the right. Egg voluntarily chose to terminate it;s contractual relationship with you when you had not breached any contractual agreement with Egg.

At this stage I would not contact Bryan Carter. It should go through the court process, and let them justify their position.

Complete the allocation questionairre as simply as possible with yes or no ticked.

At box G, where it asks if you wish the other side to provide further information, say that you wish them to provide any evidence they hold of an existing contractual agreement of any kind betweeen Egg and yourself. that is to say a contractual agreement which has not been terminated by either party. And add a paragraph also pointing out to the court that the basis of your defence is that no contractual agreement of any kind exists between Egg and yourself, and that a contractual agreement has previously existed, but it was terminated by Egg of Egg's own volition in March 2008, when the contractual agreement was fully in order and was not in default.

The main thing is send it back to the court by the due date.

Dont get into arguments with Bryan Carter.

[aj_smith68]

**UPDATE**

 

Looks like the letter they sent out with all the statements was a computer generated thing because now they have sent out a letter thanking me for my recent correspondance and saying that the account is now on hold and that they are going to contact Egg for further instructions.

 

If they do not press forward with the court before the 28 days expire it will be stayed by the court tho? As I understand it....?

 

Anyway, wait and see what comes of it...and will update people as I get responses. Any further advise is still welcomed.

 

Still need to look into getting a charge off taken off my credit file...wing and a pray I think

[toymaker1]

**UPDATE**

 

Looks like the letter they sent out with all the statements was a computer generated thing because now they have sent out a letter thanking me for my recent correspondance and saying that the account is now on hold and that they are going to contact Egg for further instructions.

 

If they do not press forward with the court before the 28 days expire it will be stayed by the court tho? As I understand it....?

 

Anyway, wait and see what comes of it...and will update people as I get responses. Any further advise is still welcomed.

 

Still need to look into getting a charge off taken off my credit file...wing and a pray I think

 

Sounds like a result to me.

Just sit tight and dont do anything.

[trout]

Hi,

 

I received the following from Egg.Could someone please advice if

they can do this or are they in breach of cca 1974.

 

Thanks.

 

trout

 

[toymaker1]

Hi,

 

I received the following from Egg.Could someone please advice if

they can do this or are they in breach of cca 1974.

 

Thanks.

 

trout

 

 

What did you receive then?

[trout]

This

 

[trout]

Having problems with photobucket.

 

they sent me a letter stating

 

1) when my present card expires they will not issue a new one(end of this month )

 

2) I will then not be able to use my account

 

3) Any outstanding balance will have to be repaid by at least the minimum

required under my card agreement each month

 

4) The card agreement continues until the balance is repaid in full

[BEC01]

Having problems with photobucket.

 

they sent me a letter stating

 

1) when my present card expires they will not issue a new one(end of this month )

 

2) I will then not be able to use my account

 

3) Any outstanding balance will have to be repaid by at least the minimum

required under my card agreement each month

 

4) The card agreement continues until the balance is repaid in full

 

Did the letter say that your agreement was being terminated, or ended?

If not, then it says an awful lot to the 160,000 who were told that WAS that case a couple of years back.

 

[trout]

It says ' following a review we have decided not to issue a replacement when your current card expires and to END your credit card facility. '

 

Are they entitled to do this under the CCA 1974 ?

[toymaker1]

It says ' following a review we have decided not to issue a replacement when your current card expires and to END your credit card facility. '

 

Are they entitled to do this under the CCA 1974 ?

 

No

[trout]

Thanks for the swift replies.

 

I have tried to digest all of this thread in the last few days,and boy it's

long. I had a feeling due to toymaker's posts ( and others ) that what egg have done to me was outside the confines of the CCA 1974.

 

If my letter can help the 160,000 then please advice and I will retry to post it.

 

Toymaker,

 

You say NO,

 

a) why ( ie have they terminated the agreement, can they rectify their mistake ? ).

 

b) what would you do now in my position

 

 

Many thanks,

 

trout

[toymaker1]

Thanks for the swift replies.

 

I have tried to digest all of this thread in the last few days,and boy it's

long. I had a feeling due to toymaker's posts ( and others ) that what egg have done to me was outside the confines of the CCA 1974.

 

If my letter can help the 160,000 then please advice and I will retry to post it.

 

Toymaker,

 

You say NO,

 

a) why ( ie have they terminated the agreement,

Egg's letter says that "we" - i.e. Egg- have decided to end your credit card facility.

My understanding of that statement is that Egg has decided to terminate it's contractual agreement with you.

Their is no provision within CCA 1974 whereby a credit card provider can terminate a credit card agreement simply by writing a letter to the card holder saying that it - i.e. the creditor is ending your credit card facility.

can they rectify their mistake ? ).

Of course they can. If Egg believe they have made a mistake, they could write to you saying that the letter was sent in error, and that you are to ignore the letter, and offering their sincere apology for the clerical error.

b) what would you do now in my position

 

I would write to Egg saying that in order for you to provide a full response to their letter, you would be grateful if Egg would indicate to you the relevant section of CCA 1974 which provides Egg with legal authority to terminate your credit card agreement.

[trout]

Thanks for the imput Toymaker,but,

 

a) if they have terminated the cc agreement,then how can they rectify their mistake on an agreement that no longer exists.

 

b) if they have terminated the agreement without issuing a DN + 14 clear days to rectify an alleged breach,is that not unlawfull rescission.

 

c) could the acc be put into dispute ( although there is no longer an acc / agreement ).

 

thanks,

 

trout

[alisindebt]

Egg did the same to me in 2005. I used their offer of 6 months free credit and then off in full, meaning they made a big fat zero out of me and they did not like that. Like thousands of others, and it looks like yon also, they just write and cancel the agreement. This only happened after they were taken over by Citi bank, who are a ruthless bunch of American money makers, who turned in some of the worst deficit figures of the American banking system in the recession recently.

 

Great to have such good support from a bank, eh? This shows Egg for what they are, a bunch of incompetent losers who make their customers pay for the bank's mistakes.

 

Let Toymaker help you. throw the book at them. You can see my own thread on here, they had to write my whole debt off and I am sure you can do the same. Talk about Egg on face.

[toymaker1]

Thanks for the imput Toymaker,but,

 

a) if they have terminated the cc agreement,then how can they rectify their mistake on an agreement that no longer exists.

 

b) if they have terminated the agreement without issuing a DN + 14 clear days to rectify an alleged breach,is that not unlawfull rescission.

 

c) could the acc be put into dispute ( although there is no longer an acc / agreement ).

 

thanks,

 

trout

 

You seem to be wanting to mak everything much more complicated than it needs to be.

Just write to Egg asking them to indicate to you which part of the CCA provides them with entitlement to terminate your agreement.