Egg credit card agreement terminated

[militantconsumer]

I have had limited internet access for a couple of weeks but have just caught up on this thread with interest. I would like to add a few comments:-

 

1. There was an interesting thread about payments made by a customer where it was later realised that no agreement was in force. This may have some relevance to this thread:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/175553-payments-made-under-mistake.html

 

2. If Egg are frustrating legal preparations by refusing to supply copies of the letters they sent out "ending" the agreements, perhaps the CPR 31.16 process in this thread could be used to force them to disclose:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html

Obviously in the original thread this was used to obtain copies of signed credit agreements, but the principle should be the same. Having said that, I think that Mistermind's point about Egg not keeping 161,000 identical copies on file is a potential problem and they may refuse to supply anything on that basis.

 

3. I see that Big Ed couldn't control his excitement any longer, and has finally mentioned the "E" word!

 

4. Are we saying that r_007 is some kind of mole? Perhaps he could be described as an "Egg plant"?!

[BEC01]

I have had limited internet access for a couple of weeks but have just caught up on this thread with interest. I would like to add a few comments:-

 

1. There was an interesting thread about payments made by a customer where it was later realised that no agreement was in force. This may have some relevance to this thread:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/175553-payments-made-under-mistake.html

 

2. If Egg are frustrating legal preparations by refusing to supply copies of the letters they sent out "ending" the agreements, perhaps the CPR 31.16 process in this thread could be used to force them to disclose:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html

Obviously in the original thread this was used to obtain copies of signed credit agreements, but the principle should be the same. Having said that, I think that Mistermind's point about Egg not keeping 161,000 identical copies on file is a potential problem and they may refuse to supply anything on that basis.

 

3. I see that Big Ed couldn't control his excitement any longer, and has finally mentioned the "E" word!

 

4. Are we saying that r_007 is some kind of mole? Perhaps he could be described as an "Egg plant"?!

 

I mention the "E" word because this is a serious situation.

 

Now, I think that it is right and decent to repay what you borrow.

 

It is also important to conduct business in a lawful, decent, and reasonable manner.

 

This is one of the reasons that it is important that Egg are taken through the courts with this one.

 

On a separate point; individual employees should be made accountable as well as the business as a legal entity: from the top, right the way down. This shocking behaviour by the financial sector must be stamped out, and that is often achieved by hitting the weak points first.

[toymaker1]

 

2. If Egg are frustrating legal preparations by refusing to supply copies of the letters they sent out "ending" the agreements, perhaps the CPR 31.16 process in this thread could be used to force them to disclose:

Having said that, I think that Mistermind's point about Egg not keeping 161,000 identical copies on file is a potential problem and they may refuse to supply anything on that basis.

 

You are correct in saying that CPR 31.16 could be used to make Egg disclose the termination letter they sent.

But I think that you and mistermind are making things unneccesarily complicated.

If you think about it, if Egg refused to disclose the termination letter, Egg would not have anything on which to base their claim for money owed by the debtor since the time when the agreement was terminated by Egg.

Also, If Egg refused to disclose the termination letter, Egg would start to get into a terrible legal mess. i.e. Oh, what a tangled web we weave, etc etc.

The bottom line, which would come out in any legal proceedings, is that Egg would be seen to have illegally terminated credit card agreements.

 

Regards

[toymaker1]

Some will vehemently disagree, but credit card T&Cs look to me to have 2 distinct components:

 

(1) A variable option to lend or to borrow.

 

(2) A fixed obligation to repay the outstanding balance

 

terminating which of the TWO parts of the agreement? It's up to the judge.

 

It seems to me that it is irrelevant how many parts or components there are to a credit card agreement between Egg and a credit card holder.

In the case under discussion, Egg purported to terminate "the" agreement i.e. the whole agreement, inclusive of all it's parts of components, however many parts or components the agreement might consist of.

Under CCA 1974 Egg cannot do that when the agreement is not in default.

 

Regards

[ftd]

The bottom line, which would come out in any legal proceedings, is that Egg would be seen to have illegally terminated credit card agreements.

 

Regards

 

The more you read into it, the simpler it really becomes! Egg have ended the agreement whilst not in default, not 'illegally', therefore there is no longer any contract and nothing further is owed! I'm going to write my letter now stating that due to an administrative error I have payed sums monthly since the agreement has ended and will start recovery of them! Ftd

[BEC01]

The more you read into it, the simpler it really becomes! Egg have ended the agreement whilst not in default, not 'illegally', therefore there is no longer any contract and nothing further is owed! I'm going to write my letter now stating that due to an administrative error I have payed sums monthly since the agreement has ended and will start recovery of them! Ftd

 

I suspect you will get a combination of waffle, threats, more waffle, further threats, culminating in them ignoring you.

 

Only meaningful way is to take court action, and they know that.

[cosalt]

Just an observation, if as r 007 ( and egg ) say the creditor is able to terminate the agreement without a default notice then whats the pont of a default notice.

 

If you did not pay they could just terminate and take you to court on the basis you were behind with your payments, the default notice is there to protect consumers from having their account terminated without the creditor giving them the opportunity to resolve it. Egg gave me no choice.

 

Its simple, if you terminate without a default notice you are in breach, and many people on here have won in court against creditors on this basis.

[cosalt]

I suspect you will get a combination of waffle, threats, more waffle, further threats, culminating in them ignoring you.

 

Only meaningful way is to take court action, and they know that.

 

This is exactly the point I am at

[basa48]

The more you read into it, the simpler it really becomes! Egg have ended the agreement whilst not in default, not 'illegally', therefore there is no longer any contract and nothing further is owed! I'm going to write my letter now stating that due to an administrative error I have payed sums monthly since the agreement has ended and will start recovery of them! Ftd

 

Just another thought here (and I do hope someone can shoot me down in flames):

 

I once "won" a fight in a small claims court against an Estate Agent (spits!) to prove we had no viable contract.

 

I was elated until the judge recommended that in the case of 'no contract', both parties are due legitimate expenses for the actual work they had done and the expenses incurred in carrying out the work.

 

Cost me nearly as much as the original fees !!

 

Do you see where I am coming from??

[BEC01]

Just another thought here (and I do hope someone can shoot me down in flames):

 

I once "won" a fight in a small claims court against an Estate Agent (spits!) to prove we had no viable contract.

 

I was elated until the judge recommended that in the case of 'no contract', both parties are due legitimate expenses for the actual work they had done and the expenses incurred in carrying out the work.

 

Cost me nearly as much as the original fees !!

 

Do you see where I am coming from??

 

It is a very different situation.

The situation with Egg is that a contract - agreed by both parties - existed.

 

Then one of the parties (Egg Plc) decided to end the contract.

 

So the contract ceased, and so should all actions pertaining to that terminated contract. To request - and collect - payment where no credit agreement is in place is not a very clever thing to do.

 

We're certain that we are going to take them on over this contract issue now. A reply received from Egg yesterday has shown us that they know that they have made a huge error.

 

Anyone who has had correspondence with Egg over this matter will have noticed how desperately they are trying to back-peddle on this one and move the goal posts.

 

In our opinion, for people who have received this letter, you should vigorously challenge them over this.

 

It was their choice to end the agreement. So if there were outstanding balances to pay after the termination date, we can only assume that they did not want to pursue this. Otherwise the letter would have stated "we are changing your account to a repayment only account as per our terms and conditions".

 

Very simple to do: but they didn't.

 

Rambling a bit, but they are well and truly knackered with this one.

If everyone follows it up.

And I hope everyone does.

[thekat1979]

I've lost my copy of the termination letter

[BEC01]

I've lost my copy of the termination letter

 

Just ask them for a copy.

 

[thekat1979]

LOL I'd like a copy of the one that was originally sent out not the one they are insisting is right now lol

[BEC01]

LOL I'd like a copy of the one that was originally sent out not the one they are insisting is right now lol

 

Have you asked them for a copy?

If so, what did they provide - if anything - and in what format?

[phatram]

I have and they've provided nothing as they are unable to reissue one.

[BEC01]

I have and they've provided nothing as they are unable to reissue one.

 

Well, I can tell you that they can or at least they were able to a few weeks ago.

 

When did you request?

How hard did you push?

Have you tried SAR?

 

This "inability", or unwillingness to provide a copy when it has been lost, discarded, or even pretend lost ; with all the incredible excuses that they provide, is one of the many actions that shows us they know that they have burgered-up big time.

 

They are hoping that no-one follows it through.

However, one thing that is certain is that it will be followed all the way.

 

r_007 has provided us with one of the most useful bits of information so far.

 

Cheers mate

[phatram]

Phone, secure message and S.A.R. Hat trick !

[BEC01]

Phone, secure message and S.A.R. Hat trick !

 

And still they didn't provide a copy?

Do you have anyone who witnessed your copy?

[phatram]

Sure we've got it somewhere in the massive pile of bank junk mail etc

[BEC01]

Sure we've got it somewhere in the massive pile of bank junk mail etc

 

So they didn't provide a copy with your SAR?

 

!!!

[phatram]

Not yet Eddie. They do have 3 more weeks to comply. I did put the termination notice bit in the SAR, so its wait and see time.

[BEC01]

Not yet Eddie. They do have 3 more weeks to comply. I did put the termination notice bit in the SAR, so its wait and see time.

I'll be most interested in you results!

[phatram]

I'll be most interested in you results!

 

So will I:D

Its my wifes account , but I just love doing this stuff !

I will, of course, post anything they send to be used in our fight against these bankers.

[BEC01]

So will I:D

Its my wifes account , but I just love doing this stuff !

I will, of course, post anything they send to be used in our fight against these bankers.

 

Excellent, let's hope we do it before they go bust.

[thekat1979]

I've Subject Access Requested them for anything to do with transactions and my banking history with them. Had to apply for a court order, and they didn't acknowledge service, so asked for a default judgement. A day later I receive copy statements from them but absolutely nothing else whatsoever. I know there should be more, they had to change my account number at one point because my new card went missing in the post, surely that at the very least should mean there is more to my account than just statements. I did a fairly basic SAR, as I said, just asking for information relating to my banking hsitory with them, no specific documents requested. Bit too late to change that now. I may RE-issue my SAR and state specific documents once this is all cleared up.