Egg credit card agreement terminated

[BEC01]

That is previous form, excluded from court as evidence. The courts uphold the law. Upholding poetic justice is more for the court of public opinion.

 

Yes, I wasn't suggesting that the courts have some romantic vision of crushing the banks.

 

What I am saying is it is what is driving our team.

 

What is on paper and applicable legislation - of course - will.

 

One question I do have, which is relevant to your point on previous form, is has anyone actually challenged this? If they have and failed, then we are quite obviously wasting our time.

 

Edit:

Our main question is; can they terminate and agreement, yet still provide a credit facility for which they demand payment?

 

This is regardless of what their T&Cs state. To remove fresh spending, and to withdraw the use of a card is perfectly fine; and no doubt is a good thing to do for certain accounts. However, to terminate - or end - and agreement is a very different action.

Edited February 3, 2009 by BigEddieChek

[Mistermind]

There was a wave of indignation from the 161,000 but I have never read any court hearing report over this issue in this Egg forum. But there is also Moneysavingexpert.com forum which I do not follow, and PenaltyCharges.co.uk where the firebrands congregate.

 

It always comes back to Egg's use of remedial English. As they are unable to talk proper lets look at their actions.

 

They stopped all further spending from January 2008, that was the end of a credit card facility. Did they call for return of plastic cards? They might as well have done that, except it would have been offensive to the good payers.

 

They have kept open a loan facility without topup, i.e. they still want monthly minimum payments stretching into the distant future, but they did not demand instant repayment of outstanding balance where no default occurred -- which action would indeed have breached their T&C?

 

Why terminate 50% of the agreement and call it "terminating the agreement"?

 

Dunderheads.

Edited February 3, 2009 by Mistermind

[cosalt]

Lets not forget most egg card agreements don't contain the term 'credit limit' which is a prescribed term. Even if they can persuade that their termination was on the basis that payments and interest would continue the court should in theory not be able to enforce the agreement.

 

Just to clarify my view on this, egg cannot call the tune and cancel the contract but expect the customer to abide by the contract. This applies to any contract, be it marraige, employment, whatever. The example was made of honouring children and financial commitments after a marraige is terminated ( divorce) Exactly the same applies here, the marraige contract is over, finished, no further commitment is required from either party. The fact that children and property may be involved is irrelevant to the marraige, these are separate things that happen to have been committed to whilst the marraige was in place, they have nothing to do with it. The same goes for employment, when the contract of employment ends the employee no longer works for the company and the company no longer pays the employee. Payment for past employment periods etc are finalized at the time of termination, they don't continue on.

 

As I said before I have nothing to lose as far as I am concerned so will be happy to take this further.

[BEC01]

There was a wave of indignation from the 161,000 but I have never read any court hearing report over this issue in this Egg forum. But there is also Moneysavingexpert.com forum which I do not follow, and PenaltyCharges.co.uk where the firebrands congregate.

 

Thanks.

Not looked on those fora either, will check them out.

 

I remember the same as you. There was uproar, but nobody seemed to question the legality of it.

 

I think that the assumption was made that new borrowing was withdrawn, but a contract remained in place. Closer inspection shows this not to be the case.

 

I sense, though, that you don't hold out much hope for us; and I respect that from your clear experience and knowledge.

[cosalt]

Egg can say whatever they like in their terms and conditions, but surely the CCA 1974 must overule it ? It is quite clear that to terminate an agreement without default is contrary to the CCA ?

[BEC01]

Egg can say whatever they like in their terms and conditions, but surely the CCA 1974 must overule it ? It is quite clear that to terminate an agreement without default is contrary to the CCA ?

 

I agree, but then I am no lawyer.

[cosalt]

I agree, but then I am no lawyer.

 

Point taken, but its the judge's opinion that matters, therefore if it goes that far as long as we have the facts correct we should be able to put forward a good argument.

[BEC01]

Point taken, but its the judge's opinion that matters, therefore if it goes that far as long as we have the facts correct we should be able to put forward a good argument.

 

Yes, we have a decent team here that represented us against RBS over a contractual issue a few years back - and won. They always put forward multiple, well thought-out arguments.

 

Some of the team also helped me personally against a certain mortgage company more recently, although I can't actually tell you who, or for what

 

Now, on here we are about helping each other, but we have access to and will use legal professionals. I am not one of the legal professionals, as you can tell from the content of my posts!

 

If we have success, we will share it here for all.

 

 

Or you might just beat us to it Cosalt!!!

[phatram]

From Egg,

 

Your Egg Card balance is currently overdue and we require an immediate payment of GBP XXX

 

What to do next

 

Select the 'Move money' tab and choose the 'Make a one-off payment' option, and then follow the on-screen instructions.

 

If you`re having trouble finding the money to make your payment, you can talk to us about alternative options or help with getting on top of your finances on 08456 000 296 (8am - 9pm Monday to Friday and Saturday 8am -7pm).

 

If you`ve already spoken to us or you`ve put your account in order, please ignore this communication

 

 

Should I write back and tell them I dont have an agreement with them?

[militantconsumer]

I am a "continuing" Egg Card customer with no adverse history on the account since I took it out in 2000. (not to be confused with the case of "Militant Consumer's Friend".

 

Today I received this email from Egg:

 

Changes to your Egg Card agreement

.....

 

Clause 3 - this change is to notify you that the new APR on your card is 16.9% (variable)

 

.....

 

................

 

Your options

If your rate has increased, you have the option, at any time before 6 March 2009 to end your agreement, cancel the use of your Egg credit card account and stay at your existing borrowing rate. To do this, please contact us within this timescale by sending a secure message

 

 

------------------

 

Did they give their "terminated" customers this option when they increased their APR and terminated their accounts?

 

If not, why the change of policy I wonder?

[cosalt]

Ok, reply received today. I won't bother scanning the letter but will reproduce the important paragraph below.

 

" The ending of your Egg Card agreement, under section 20.2 of your Egg Card Terms and Conditions, changed your Egg Card account into a repayment only facility. However, it did not end the Egg Card agreement under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 "

 

What a load of tosh.

 

Any ideas what to do know ?

[BEC01]

Ok, reply received today. I won't bother scanning the letter but will reproduce the important paragraph below.

 

" The ending of your Egg Card agreement, under section 20.2 of your Egg Card Terms and Conditions, changed your Egg Card account into a repayment only facility. However, it did not end the Egg Card agreement under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 "

 

What a load of tosh.

 

Any ideas what to do know ?

 

Ask them why the phrase "repayment only facility" does not explicitly appear in any of their terms and conditions.

 

Also why the phrase "repayment on facility" did not appear in their termination letter.

 

The reason is that they did not foresee the situation that they decided on, and they did not properly think through their T&C OR their termination letter.

 

They made a mistake and terminated 161,000 accounts on the 6th March 2008. That should be the end of all communication between those people and Egg. Unless, of course, they have other accounts, or subsequently opened new accounts.

 

Keep asking them questions. Especially via secure messaging. It is staffed by monkeys who have no - or very little - legal knowledge. They slip up all the time.

 

Especially ask the same questions several times, in different formats.

That will give you a lot of useful information.

[BEC01]

An aside from the argument against Egg, if the agreement has been ended, there should be no further processing of data with the CRAs, this is a completely separate argument from that of having a balance owed.

[ftd]

Does a pre-2005 Egg agreement HAVE to have a notice of cancellation rights on the agreement in a box or prominently displayed, or not? Ftd

[c14r3]

Hi Bluesquirrel.

 

I have no special legal knowledge. All I can tell you is what I would if I was in your particular situation, that is to say, if I understand you correctly, you got into arrears, and the credit card company wrote to you stating that they were "ending" your agreement, but they did not send you a default notice.

 

In that situation I would write to them (special delivery) requesting them to indicate to you which part of the CCA 1974 provides them with the legal authority to terminate the agreement without observing the requirements set out in sections 86, 87 and 88 of CCA 1974.

Also, I would say to them that until they provide clarification to you, you consider the agreement to be in dispute, and that you do not accept any increase to your debt caused by interest which accrues from the date of their letter to you purportedly "ending" the agreement outside the provisions of CCA 1974.

 

I would not pay a penny until the whole matter is resolved.

From what you have posted, it seems that they have acted outside the provisions of CCA 1974 - i.e. unlawfully..

I hope that makes sense.

Regards

Peter

P.S. I would also request them not to telephone you about the matter, as you wish all communications to be in writing so that both parties have a clear record of the matter, and that you will regard all telephone calls as harrasment within the terms of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997, and the terms of the OFT Debt Collection Guidance July 2003 Updated December 2006.

 

Hi toymaker, I have been following this thread and would like to know if you have a template letter that I can send to egg to ask them to indicate to me "which part of the CCA 1974 provides them with the legal authority to terminate my agreement without observing the requirements set out in sections 86, 87 and 88 of CCA 1974"

[bathgatebuyer]

Is it worth asking the opinion of the FSA or OFT on this? I know they often say it isn't something they can get involved in, but don't the OFT have to stand up and take notice if enough people complain?

[toymaker1]

Hi toymaker, I would like to know if you have a template letter that I can send to egg to ask them to indicate to me "which part of the CCA 1974 provides them with the legal authority to terminate my agreement without observing the requirements set out in sections 86, 87 and 88 of CCA 1974"

 

Hi,

The bit you have put between quotation marks is 90 % of a template letter. - That is the main thing you need to ask Egg. It really is that simple. What you will find is that Egg will not be able to provide you with a satisfactory answer to that question, because they wont have one. There is only one way that a creditor can terminate a credit card agreement, and that is by complying with the provisions of the CCA 1974. There is no other legal way.

Hope that is useful.

regards

Peter.

[toymaker1]

Hi toymaker, I have been following this thread and would like to know if you have a template letter that I can send to egg to ask them to indicate to me "which part of the CCA 1974 provides them with the legal authority to terminate my agreement without observing the requirements set out in sections 86, 87 and 88 of CCA 1974"

 

To be a bit more specific, if Egg terminated your agreement when you were not in default you could say, for example,

 

 

 

Dear xxxxxxx

 

 

Re: Termination by Egg of Egg account No. xxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

Thank you for your letter dated xxxxxxx.

 

In order that I can give proper consideration to the points raised by you in your letter I would be grateful if you would indicate to me which specific part of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 is considered by Egg to provide Egg with legal entitlement to terminate my Egg agreement with effect from (date).

 

 

Yours sincerely

 

(Signature)

 

 

 

 

 

- Egg's answer should be interesting.

[phatram]

Re: Termination by Egg of Egg account No. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Thank you for your message dated 2/02/09

 

In order that I can give proper consideration to the points raised by you in your message I would be grateful if you would indicate to me which specific part of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 is considered by Egg to provide Egg with legal entitlement to terminate my Egg agreement with effect from January 2008.

 

Also, until you provide clarification , I consider the agreement to be in dispute, and I do not accept any increase to the alleged debt caused by interest which accrues from the date of your letter to me purportedly "ending" the agreement outside the provisions of CCA 1974.

 

I do not believe you cannot send me a copy of the temination notice as the law states you must keep this data for at least 6 years.

I would also remind you that processing of data to third parties would be in the least unlawful.

 

May I also state from todays date ALL correspondence between us MUST be in writing.

Yours sincerely

[c14r3]

Thanks toymaker1 & phatram I will get my letter off tomorrow. Tomorrow

[phatram]

Copy of agreement arrived but no copy of termination notice.

[thekat1979]

I wonder if one will turn up in my SAR that I have just had t issue an N1 to get them to send stuff out! They ot got long now until I win by default?! Don't know what that means in terms of getting my info, but hey!

[BEC01]

Just to update.

Egg shall have a formal notice within 14 days.

 

Will report back once they have responded.

[cosalt]

Egg really are thick !

 

I sent a secure message on friday informing them that they had not answered the queries raised in my letter, and could they please now do so.

 

Got an answer back today saying they are sorry for the delay but are pleased to see that I have now spoken to someone and that my queries have been answered???? WTF ?

 

Anyway have replied given them 24hrs to come up with a satisfactory answer or I will commence proceedings to recover the monies I have paid since my agreement was terminated.

 

So Egg if you are reading this - be warned - I will go ahead !

 

Cosalt

[phatram]

Secure message from EGG,

Dear Mrs P

 

Please call our Collections Team on 08456 000 296 as they are currently dealing with your account. I'm afraid this issue can't be dealt with via secure message.

 

They're open Monday to Friday 8am until 9pm and Saturday/Sunday 9am until 6pm.

 

If you've already spoken to our Collections Team, then please disregard this message.

 

You may want to make sure we've got up to date contact details for you. To do this, please follow the instructions below:

 

* Go to the 'Personal details' tab at the top of this page.

* Select the relevant option for the details you'd like to change.

 

If your details are up to date it will help us to contact you in the future.

 

Thanks for your message.

 

Regards

 

Internet Customer Services

 

Sure I said all correspondence must be in writing? Why on earth are they asking for me to ring them? Idiots !

I have also just received an arrears letter.

I have sent the following secure message,

Hi,

As stated in previous message, ALL CORRESPONDENCE MUST BE IN WRITNG AS THIS ACCOUNT IS NOW IN DISPUTE.

Regards

Mrs P

 

EGG's reply,

As xxxxx stated you'll need to ring us I'm afraid.

 

As the account has fallen into arrears, I'm unable to deal with it for you. It's been passed over to our Collections Team. They don't have the facility to send secure messages.

 

To ensure you receive a swift answer to your query about your account, please call our Collections Team on 0845 7000 775.

 

They're open Monday to Friday 8am until 5.30pm.

 

If you've already spoken to our Collections Team, then please disregard this message.

 

Thanks for your message.

 

Regards.

 

I would like to add the account has only "fallen into arrears" because I have put this into dispute and not for any other reason. I like to think of it as getting my own back!

Edited February 11, 2009 by phatram
To add something