HELP What is my next step PPI & FirstPlus

[KaneCole]

Hi

 

I am new to the consumer group as far as posting anything is concerned, have read lots of your info on this subject and FirstPlus in particular and to be honest i am completely lost at the moment and dont know which way to go further with this now.

 

Situation is this. I sent a standard letter from Money Expert to Firstplus stating I beleived i was mis sold because i paid a single premium for my policy and repaid early the loan early and also that I was not given sufficient info to decide whether this PPI was what I needed. Got a bog standard reply back stating they had gone through the demands and needs and it highlighted I needed payment protection and also that we were told that we would not get a full refund and the amount would be significantly reduced if settled early and apparently we agreed to all this.

 

I then sent a second letter detailing the situation as follows ( topped and tailed so not so long )

 

Dear *****

 

Further to your letter we do not feel a satisfactory explanation has been offered for the following.

 

We took our a loan with you in April 2005 for £15000. A PPI policy for £3673.5 was added to this loan. We do not beleive this policy was sold to us with best advice. It was not made clear that we didn't need this policy and cover could be obtained from elsewhere. Also my husband was in employment and was covered by his employer. We did not receive a breakdown of our monthly payments showing the loan amount & PPI seperately.

 

Then 8 months later we required further borrowings so approached you to to increase the existing loan to £28,500. It is only now that we are looking into this matter that we realise that the figure of £16767 shown on the breakdown of the revised borrowing was the original loan plus the PPI. We beleived at that time that the figure was the original loan plus interest because we were amending the loan before the end of its term. At no time did we receive any correspondence breaking this figure down to indicate this. Also because we had not used the PPI and it was sold as a cashback policy we assusmed it was refunded.

 

We were then encouraged to take out another PPI against the revised loan of £28500 for £6979. As before not advised could be obtained elsewhere and never given option to keep first one running and just take out additional cover, obviously now realise this was because the first PPI was capitalised into the first loan.We would have never taken out the cover if we realised we would have lost our money if we paid the loan off early. We remorgaged in Aug2007 and when the repayment figure came back at £33500 we were in complete shock this was queried with you by phone and were told this is the figure we must pay back under the terms. As we were nearly completing our remortgage I didnt have time to query it and just asked our financial advisor to see if we could increase our borrowing.

 

Yours *******************

 

 

I have today received a second decline from them as follows (although this time the letter is only addressed to my husband and the loans were in joint names and their first decline was sent to both of us.

 

Dear *****

 

I have reviewed the initial sales call that took place with your wife in Feb 2005 where the PPI was discussed. In order to ascertain suitablility Demands and Needs questions were asked and a opy was sent to you. The answers your wife provided highlighted the need to protect the loan reparyments and the PPi policy was recommended to meet this need.

 

The acccount manager confirmed that you both would receive life cover and your wife would be covered alone in the event of accident, sickness and if she involuntary ceased trading.

 

The credit agreement shows the premium payable for the optional PPI and the premium is included in the total loan amount and interest is applicable on total loan amount.

 

They also quote about the policy booklet and the terms and conditions and getting substantially less if you settle early. That the account manager explained that the PPI was optional. It also says that "You were under no obligation to take the policy being offered and wer free to obtain alternative cover from other providers if you had wished to do so"

 

Yours ***************

 

WHAT DO I DO NEXT ??????????

 

Do i request copies of everything ? is that what is called an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) ?

 

Sorry this is so long.

 

Sally.

 

Sorry also forgot to mention that I am a Self Employed Driving Instructor so I dont know if that makes any difference and also they say in their first refusal that we received a rebate of insurance of £1219.72 when we did the final settlement of the second loan which was included in the settlement figure. Which goes no where near the figure of £10642 which was the cost of both PPIs. Obviously I made some payments but am unsure of how to work out what I should be asking back so I asked for a full refund plus interest. Is that correct ?

[maroondevo52]

Hello and Welcome, KaneCole.

 

Sorry, I'm not very good with the PPI stuff, hopefully someone who is will help you shortly.

Here's the SAR info.......

 

http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/library/data_protection/practical_application/subject_access_-_guide_for_data_subjects.pdf

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

 

[hellhasnofury]

Hi

 

I am new to the consumer group as far as posting anything is concerned, have read lots of your info on this subject and FirstPlus in particular and to be honest i am completely lost at the moment and dont know which way to go further with this now.

 

Situation is this. I sent a standard letter from Money Expert to Firstplus stating I beleived i was mis sold because i paid a single premium for my policy and repaid early the loan early and also that I was not given sufficient info to decide whether this PPI was what I needed. Got a bog standard reply back stating they had gone through the demands and needs and it highlighted I needed payment protection and also that we were told that we would not get a full refund and the amount would be significantly reduced if settled early and apparently we agreed to all this.

 

I then sent a second letter detailing the situation as follows ( topped and tailed so not so long )

 

Dear *****

 

Further to your letter we do not feel a satisfactory explanation has been offered for the following.

 

We took our a loan with you in April 2005 for £15000. A PPI policy for £3673.5 was added to this loan. We do not beleive this policy was sold to us with best advice. It was not made clear that we didn't need this policy and cover could be obtained from elsewhere. Also my husband was in employment and was covered by his employer. We did not receive a breakdown of our monthly payments showing the loan amount & PPI seperately.

 

Then 8 months later we required further borrowings so approached you to to increase the existing loan to £28,500. It is only now that we are looking into this matter that we realise that the figure of £16767 shown on the breakdown of the revised borrowing was the original loan plus the PPI. We beleived at that time that the figure was the original loan plus interest because we were amending the loan before the end of its term. At no time did we receive any correspondence breaking this figure down to indicate this. Also because we had not used the PPI and it was sold as a cashback policy we assusmed it was refunded.

 

We were then encouraged to take out another PPI against the revised loan of £28500 for £6979. As before not advised could be obtained elsewhere and never given option to keep first one running and just take out additional cover, obviously now realise this was because the first PPI was capitalised into the first loan.We would have never taken out the cover if we realised we would have lost our money if we paid the loan off early. We remorgaged in Aug2007 and when the repayment figure came back at £33500 we were in complete shock this was queried with you by phone and were told this is the figure we must pay back under the terms. As we were nearly completing our remortgage I didnt have time to query it and just asked our financial advisor to see if we could increase our borrowing.

 

Yours *******************

 

 

I have today received a second decline from them as follows (although this time the letter is only addressed to my husband and the loans were in joint names and their first decline was sent to both of us.

 

Dear *****

 

I have reviewed the initial sales call that took place with your wife in Feb 2005 where the PPI was discussed. In order to ascertain suitablility Demands and Needs questions were asked and a opy was sent to you. The answers your wife provided highlighted the need to protect the loan reparyments and the PPi policy was recommended to meet this need.

 

The acccount manager confirmed that you both would receive life cover and your wife would be covered alone in the event of accident, sickness and if she involuntary ceased trading.

 

The credit agreement shows the premium payable for the optional PPI and the premium is included in the total loan amount and interest is applicable on total loan amount.

 

They also quote about the policy booklet and the terms and conditions and getting substantially less if you settle early. That the account manager explained that the PPI was optional. It also says that "You were under no obligation to take the policy being offered and wer free to obtain alternative cover from other providers if you had wished to do so"

 

Yours ***************

 

WHAT DO I DO NEXT ??????????

 

Do i request copies of everything ? is that what is called an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) ?

 

Sorry this is so long.

 

Sally.

 

Sorry also forgot to mention that I am a Self Employed Driving Instructor so I dont know if that makes any difference and also they say in their first refusal that we received a rebate of insurance of £1219.72 when we did the final settlement of the second loan which was included in the settlement figure. Which goes no where near the figure of £10642 which was the cost of both PPIs. Obviously I made some payments but am unsure of how to work out what I should be asking back so I asked for a full refund plus interest. Is that correct ?

 

Hello and welcome to the forum,

 

The first thing you need to do is a full SAR here is the link for it, copy and paste it, add your details, save and print it, Sent a £10 postal order for the fee. Send all letters recorded delivery, keep the receipt so you can check on the royal mail website that they received it. They have 40dyas to comply with this legal request.

 

Do you have your credit agreements and can you post up the information on them, ie

 

loan amount,

ppi amount,

Total charge for credit (interest)

Interest rate

term to run for months/years.

 

You need to be aware that the cost of the ppi premium would have been added to the total charge(interest) of the loan, so you need to work out how much interest they charged for the ppi, you want this back too.

 

If you can get your figures posted up we can have a look at them for you:grin: if you like

[KaneCole]

Hi Thanks for your reply.

 

Have completed S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request and will send off tomorrow.

 

Loan details as follows :-

 

1st loan taken out 1st April 2005

 

Loan Amount £15000

PPI £3673.50

Total Loan £18673.50

Monthly interest rate 0.639%

Apr 7.9%

number of monthly repayments 120

Monthly payment £223.30

Made 8 payments of this totalling £1786.40 up to Dec 2005

 

2nd loan to increase borrowing taken out Dec 2005

 

Loan Amount £28500 (This shows first loan included at £16761.62)

PPI £6979.65

Total Loan £35479.65

Apr 7.9%

number of monthly repayments 120

Monthly payment £340.80 for cash loan

£ 83.47 for PPI

Total £424.27

 

Paid 4 payments of £424.27 totalling £1697.08 then had to increase term to 25years as could not afford it so monthly payment changed to £261.23 at same Aor of 7.9%. Made 8 monthly payments at this amount totalling £2089.84. Then in Jan 07 interest rate changed to 8.4% making monthly payment £271.76, made 2 payments at this amount then rate went up again to 8.7% making monthly amount £278.07. Again made 2 payments at this amount then rate went up again to 9.2% changing it to £288.34. Made two payments at this amount and then paid off the loan in Aug 2007 by remortgaging, the settlement figure was £33758.26. This is shown as

 

Total amount payable under agreement £85523.23

Less our rebate on early settlement £51914.97

Plus admin charge £150

Total amount to settle £33758.26

 

When I send off the SAR should I send another covering letter saying I am not happy with the response and am requesting the SAR to then go straight to the ombudsman or just leave it until I see all the paperwork ?

 

Thanks for your help

 

Sally

 

PS. apparently they gave me a rebate of insurance of £1219.72 in the settlement figure of the 2nd loan for settling early !!!

[hellhasnofury]

Hi Thanks for your reply.

 

Have completed S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request and will send off tomorrow.

 

Loan details as follows :-

 

1st loan taken out 1st April 2005

 

Loan Amount £15000

PPI £3673.50

Total Loan £18673.50

Monthly interest rate 0.639%

Apr 7.9%

number of monthly repayments 120

Monthly payment £223.30 If you multipy £223.30 X 120month the total you would have paid would be £26,796.00 Therefore the total charge for the credit (interest) would have been £8,122.50.

So we have to breakdown the amount of interest they charged you for the ppi alone.

The ppi premium was £3,673.50 and the interest rate they used was 0.639% per month, so per year they charged you 0.639 X 12 = 7.66%

If we work out 1% of £3,673.50 it comes to roughly £36.73, so multipy that by 7.66 and you were charged £281.30 per year interest. If we multiply that by 10 years the total interest they charged you for the ppi alone was £2,815.28.. So the amount you wish back is £3,673.50 plus the interest of £2,815.28 = £6,488.78

Now you state that they refunded £1219.72 in the settlement of the 1st loan,

You need to put these figures onto a spreadsheet to work out the contractual interest you wish on top.

From the start of the loan to the rebate, then deduct the rebate and what is left to now:D

Made 8 payments of this totalling £1786.40 up to Dec 2005

 

2nd loan to increase borrowing taken out Dec 2005

 

Loan Amount £28500 (This shows first loan included at £16761.62)

PPI £6979.65

Total Loan £35479.65

Apr 7.9%

number of monthly repayments 120

Monthly payment £340.80 for cash loan

£ 83.47 for PPI

Total £424.27 What was the term the long had to run for?????

Paid 4 payments of £424.27 totalling £1697.08 then had to increase term to 25years as could not afford it so monthly payment changed to £261.23 at same Aor of 7.9%. Made 8 monthly payments at this amount totalling £2089.84. Then in Jan 07 interest rate changed to 8.4% making monthly payment £271.76, made 2 payments at this amount then rate went up again to 8.7% making monthly amount £278.07. Again made 2 payments at this amount then rate went up again to 9.2% changing it to £288.34. Made two payments at this amount and then paid off the loan in Aug 2007 by remortgaging, the settlement figure was £33758.26. This is shown as

 

Total amount payable under agreement £85523.23

Less our rebate on early settlement £51914.97

Plus admin charge £150

Total amount to settle £33758.26

 

When I send off the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) should I send another covering letter saying I am not happy with the response and am requesting the SAR to then go straight to the ombudsman or just leave it until I see all the paperwork ?

 

Thanks for your help

 

Sally

 

PS. apparently they gave me a rebate of insurance of £1219.72 in the settlement figure of the 2nd loan for settling early !!!

 

Hello Sally,

 

Firstly I have to confess that I am a Midwife by trade, not a accountant or a maths teacher:) I have started to look at your figures, but they are so complicated. I have left a few comments and figures above. Get back to me with the question regarding the 2nd loan length please:D

[KaneCole]

Hi.

 

Thankyou so much for your reply it will help loads.

 

In answer to your question the 2nd loan was originally taken out for a term of 10 years (120 months) from Dec 2005, we made 4 payments in Jan 06, feb 06, march 06 and April 06 for £424.27, but as we found the payments too high we extended the term to 25 years (296 months) from May 2006 and then made the payments shown above until the surrender of the loan in August 2007.

 

When we extended we did not change any of the loan amounts just the term. So basically this was a 25 year term from the start date of Jan 06.

 

The rebate I mention of £1219.72 was not in respect of the first loan but was for the 2nd loan that was settled in 2007. I have no idea if we received any rebate when the first loan was added into the second loan. There is no mention of anything in the paperwork we hold. I presume when I get the SAR it will record somewhere the rebate before they added the 1st loan to the 2nd ?

 

I have written back to them saying still not happy and requested SAR.

 

Where do i find the spreadsheet to enter my details to work out the contractual interest ?

 

Thanks so much for your help, and i agree its very confusing. ?? Which is why i think they managed to get away with it as I didn't have a clue how any of the figures were worked out.

 

Sally

[KaneCole]

Hi.

 

I sent the following cover letter to First Plus on the 25th March with an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) :

 

We refer to your letter dated 20th March 2008 responding to our letter dated 9th March 2008. Firstly this was only addressed to Mr ********, we wrote to you in joint names about the PPI on the above joint loans and should have been replied to in joint names.

 

We still believe both of these policies were not sold fairly, reasonably and within our best interests. We therefore request that you comply to the attached request under the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

The reasons below reiterate the main points of our complaint :-

• As stated before It was not made clear by the sales advisor that these were Single Premium Policies and although only lasting for five years, we would be paying for them and interest on them throughout the lifetime of the loans at the loan APR, and furthermore we would need to take out further insurance at the end of the five year term.

• At no time were we told that PPI could be purchased elsewhere to cover the loans, that there were PPI policies where one could pay monthly for substantially lower premiums and which would cover us for the whole term of the loan.

• It was not stated at any point during the setting up of the 2nd loan that the PPI from the 1st loan was added to that loan. We were never given a breakdown of what was loan amount and PPI separately when it was added, and therefore had no idea that any PPI was included or how much. There was never any mention of this in any conversations or paperwork.

• It was never made clear that the rebate you would receive if you cancelled early was not fairly proportionate. Also as these were sold to us as cash back policies that is how we believed they worked. We would never have taken the PPI on either loan if we thought we could lose such a large amount of money.

Your reply did not address any of these issues and we now intend to forward our complaint to the Financial Ombudsman when we have full copies of our information per the attached request.

 

We look forward to hearing from you in receipt of this letter and request in the first instance.

 

 

 

Today we have received the following letter dated 31st March (quickest reply ever and no mention of S.A.R - (Subject Access Request))

 

"I have reviewed the details of your complaint and remain satisfied that the details of the PPI were explained to you correctly and information regarding the cover was sent to you for your consideration prior to proceeding with the arrangement.

 

I am therefore satisfied that you were provided with enough information to make an informed decision as to the suitability of the policy.

 

Nevertheless, having considered your complaint the senior managers of FirstPlus are willing to reach an agreement with you in an attempt to reach a mutually agreeable outcome.

 

In order to resolve your complaint, we are willing tooffer an enhanced rebate of the insurance policy. The enhanced rebate that we are prepared to offer you is calculated on a pro-rata basis of 78% of the insurance premium (22% being held back for the provision of claims and admin costs )

 

Would therefore like to offer you an enhanced rebate of £2500.43 in addition to the £1219.72 that was included in the settlement of your loan."

 

They have said at the end that the refund is made with no admission of liability by either the insurers or FirstPlus and is purely a gesture of goodwill. They also say that they are responding seperatley on the first loan.

 

What is my next response ?

 

This rebate was on the £6979.65 PPI on the 2nd loan and does not come near to what we lost and they havent added any interest. Cant work out how the £2500.43 is 78% either ?

 

Sally

[hellhasnofury]

Hi.

 

I sent the following cover letter to First Plus on the 25th March with an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) :

 

We refer to your letter dated 20th March 2008 responding to our letter dated 9th March 2008. Firstly this was only addressed to Mr D Martin, we wrote to you in joint names about the PPI on the above joint loans and should have been replied to in joint names.

 

We still believe both of these policies were not sold fairly, reasonably and within our best interests. We therefore request that you comply to the attached request under the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

The reasons below reiterate the main points of our complaint :-

• As stated before It was not made clear by the sales advisor that these were Single Premium Policies and although only lasting for five years, we would be paying for them and interest on them throughout the lifetime of the loans at the loan APR, and furthermore we would need to take out further insurance at the end of the five year term.

• At no time were we told that PPI could be purchased elsewhere to cover the loans, that there were PPI policies where one could pay monthly for substantially lower premiums and which would cover us for the whole term of the loan.

• It was not stated at any point during the setting up of the 2nd loan that the PPI from the 1st loan was added to that loan. We were never given a breakdown of what was loan amount and PPI separately when it was added, and therefore had no idea that any PPI was included or how much. There was never any mention of this in any conversations or paperwork.

• It was never made clear that the rebate you would receive if you cancelled early was not fairly proportionate. Also as these were sold to us as cash back policies that is how we believed they worked. We would never have taken the PPI on either loan if we thought we could lose such a large amount of money.

Your reply did not address any of these issues and we now intend to forward our complaint to the Financial Ombudsman when we have full copies of our information per the attached request.

 

We look forward to hearing from you in receipt of this letter and request in the first instance.

 

 

 

Today we have received the following letter dated 31st March (quickest reply ever and no mention of S.A.R - (Subject Access Request))

 

"I have reviewed the details of your complaint and remain satisfied that the details of the PPI were explained to you correctly and information regarding the cover was sent to you for your consideration prior to proceeding with the arrangement.

 

I am therefore satisfied that you were provided with enough information to make an informed decision as to the suitability of the policy.

 

Nevertheless, having considered your complaint the senior managers of FirstPlus are willing to reach an agreement with you in an attempt to reach a mutually agreeable outcome.

 

In order to resolve your complaint, we are willing tooffer an enhanced rebate of the insurance policy. The enhanced rebate that we are prepared to offer you is calculated on a pro-rata basis of 78% of the insurance premium (22% being held back for the provision of claims and admin costs )

 

Would therefore like to offer you an enhanced rebate of £2500.43 in addition to the £1219.72 that was included in the settlement of your loan."

 

They have said at the end that the refund is made with no admission of liability by either the insurers or FirstPlus and is purely a gesture of goodwill. They also say that they are responding seperatley on the first loan.

 

What is my next response ?

 

This rebate was on the £6979.65 PPI on the 2nd loan and does not come near to what we lost and they havent added any interest. Cant work out how the £2500.43 is 78% either ?

 

Sally

 

Hello Sally,

 

Oh this looks good, they are prepared to negotiate and make you a good will gesture. This is only the start, you can write to them and accept the money as part settlement, but require the rest plus interest:D

 

 

Will have a look at the figures a bit later for you.

 

An important question did you just have to pay the ppi for the 5years or the whole of the ten years????

[hellhasnofury]

Hello KC,

 

These figures seem very complicated and god know how the came up with the final figure:rolleyes:

 

I have come up with this so far, this is just at the start of the 2nd loan, this is just a simple calculation;)

 

2nd loan to increase borrowing taken out Dec 2005

 

Loan Amount £28500 (This shows first loan included at £16761.62)

PPI £6979.65

Total Loan £35479.65

Apr 7.9%

number of monthly repayments 120

Total monthly payments of £424.27 x 120 = £50,912.40

Monthly payment £340.80 for cash loan x 120 =£40,896.00

Monthly payment £83.47 for ppi x 120 = £ 10,016.40

 

 

£ 83.47 for PPI x 120 = £10,016.40 ppi premium £6,979.65 + interest £3,036.75.

This amount of interest does no seem much relating to the interest rate and the term of the loan????????

Do you know the monthly interest rate????? like the first loan, APR's are not the actual interest rate they charge??????? Did it become a variable rate??????

Few more questions, when you changed the term to 25years did you have to sign a new agreement??????? Was the loan a secured loan against your home??????

 

 

[KaneCole]

Hi Hellhasnofury

 

The loan of £28500 was for 120 months (10years) but the PPI policy of £6979.65 was only for 60 months (5years). The payments though were spread over the 10 years so we would have been paying it for the full term but only covered for 5 years.

 

It doesnt show a monthly interest rate just 7.9% variable.

 

Yes we did sign a letter confirming the increase of the term but not an agreement just a letter and the loan was secured against our property.

 

Sally

[KaneCole]

Hi Hellhasnofury,

 

Gone back through the payments and the interest rate was definately variable. It started at 7.9% and stayed this way for one year from the start of the 2nd loan, then in Jan 07 increased to 8.4%, in March 07 to 8.7% and then finally increased again to 9.2% in May 07.

 

Sally

[KaneCole]

Does anyone have a spreadsheet that i can use to work out contractual interest ? I dont have a clue where to start.

Thanks

Sally

[KaneCole]

Also cant find any template letters about accepting money as part settlement, but requiring the rest plus interest and not sure how to word it, anybody got any ideas ?

 

Thanks

 

Sally

[hellhasnofury]

Hello KC,

Have a look at this link for rejecting offers,

 

There are a few letters regarding this on this thread, it does relate to bank charges but can be amended for your needs regarding ppi. It is basically telling them that you accept their offer as part settlement, but still want the rest:grin:

 

Rejecting Offers

[hellhasnofury]

Hello KC,

 

Regarding the figures.

 

We know the amounts they charged for the ppi and the interest. So you can add these to a spreadsheet, but unfortuneately it is a little more complicated than that.

 

There would have been a rebate of ppi and interest of the first loan applied to the second loan. Hopefully you will get this information in your S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) You can always claim for the whole amount and let them come back with the information on the rebate, when they start to argue:-D

 

Regarding the second loan, you say they have stated the amount of the rebate they gave you. So that one will be easy to work out.

 

Use on of these spreadsheets, dependant on the software on your computor

 

England - Advanced - Excel

England - Advanced - Works

 

If you get stuck, just shout

[KaneCole]

Hi HellHasNoFury

 

I cant click on the link for the excel spreadsheet it doesnt highlight, the works one does but we have excel. Where is it located so I can see if i can get it there.

 

Thanks

Sally

[hellhasnofury]

Hi HellHasNoFury

 

I cant click on the link for the excel spreadsheet it doesnt highlight, the works one does but we have excel. Where is it located so I can see if i can get it there.

 

Thanks

Sally

 

Hello Sally,

 

See what you mean, you will find the spreadsheets in the bank template letter on the main page of the forum. That will take to to the interest calculation sticky click on that and the link should come up.

[KaneCole]

Is it the credit card one I should use ?

[hellhasnofury]

Is it the credit card one I should use ?

 

6. Interest calculation spreadsheets

 

Use a advanced excel one

[KaneCole]

Hi Hellhasnofury.

 

Sorry to be thick but i cant get my head around how to use these spreadsheets. Have looked at both the advanced bank charges and credit charges sheets and am unsure what i need to put in. Am I supposed to put in each monthly payment of just PPI i paid ? Also because we extended the term to 25 years from May 2006 and they didnt give us a new agreement I dont know what the monthly PPI figure was from then until we settled the loan so I have no idea what amount to put in to calculate the interest, in addition the interest rate was variable and changed 4 times in a year so i am even more confused how to go about it.

 

Would it be ok if when i send my rejecting offer letter that i just say that i want a total refund of the policy of £6979.65 and interest made on the payments. and as we believe we have been deprived of our money we also expect 8% statutory interest, the amount a court would award. to be added to each payment made. Or should i try to work it precisely ? I am concerned because I dont understand how interest is calculated that I might ask for the wrong amount and mess the claim up.

 

Also when i told you that we didnt get a revised agreement when we amended the term and that also the loan was secured on our house, did any of that make any difference to our situation ?

 

Thanks

 

Sally

[alanalana]

Hell is a stalwart and a busy poster here,

 

I believe that she has a head for figures and I also could not get to grips with the spreadsheets. My case though so far had three CCAs with the details listes which made it easier for me to put in a request for payment. I had asked for a full repayment of the cost of the PPI and the Interest and I added the APR listed on the agreement as the Percentage rate I wanted refunded on top of my claim..... Sadly Royal Mail have mis laid my recorded delivery letter and so all my account details, addressess etc have been mislaid:eek: Complaint submitted to Royal Mail awaiting response.

 

Have a look at my letters asking for my money not the same situation as yours but they may help you.

 

This is a long letter and I hope it can help you

The second letter is:

 

Re: Loan accounts. Reference numbers:

xxx Account No xxxx

xxx Account No xxxx

xxx Account No xxxx

References:

A. My Subject Access Request (S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)) dated 7 January 2008.

B. Your RBS012754-1 dated 22 January 2008 (Acknowledgement).

C. My Mar2/24/1/08 dated 24 January 2008 (Supply of additional information).

D. Your RBS012754-2 dated 29 January 2008(Supply of copies of statements).

E. Your RBS012754-1 dated 31 January 2008 (Forwarded information to branch).

F. Your RBS012754-3 dated 8 February 2008 (duplicate statements for two of three of the accounts).

G. Your RBS012754-1 dated 13 February 2008 (Confirmation of posting copies of two loan statements and request for more information).

H. My Mar3/16/2/08 dated 16 February 2008 (Letter stating full disclosure as requested in ref A had not been received and concern over missing data).

I. Copy of statements of first loan no letter attached.

I write in regard to the above references. Sadly you have so far failed to comply fully with my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) for the provision of all data applicable to myself and the three loan accounts. I am submitting a separate letter on this subject to the Data Protection Officer. You have forwarded copies of the three Loan account statements for which I thank you.

In each case PPI policies were attached to the above loans obtained from you on 8 March 2004, 20 May 2005 and 21 August 2006.I believe that I was mis-sold these PPI policies for the following reasons:

 

Your sales advisors in each case, did not check my personal circumstances at the time of the sale, which they are under obligation to do. If they had done, they would have realised that a PPI policies were useless to me. At no time was any attempt made to ascertain if the product provided was fit for purpose, suitable for my needs or if indeed it was required at all.

Your sales advisors did not ask me if I had any alternative arrangements for insurance cover. My employer has a generous illness package which would cover a period of sickness as follows: 6 months full pay followed by 6 months half pay. I would also be entitled to a generous redundancy package.

· I was not informed that Pre Existing Medical Conditions could invalidate my policy and I was not asked if I had any pre existing medical conditions. I am in fact in receipt of a 40% war disablement pension from HMG since 1991. One element of this pension includes back injury which is an exclusion in your PPI Policies.

· I cancelled the PPI policy on 830382 Account No 01810701 on 7 Jan 2007 after becoming aware of the widespread mis-selling of PPI by some financial institutions from recent media coverage and recent OFT and FSA investigations regarding the mis-selling of PPI. I understand that some employees are paid higher bonuses if they get prospective creditors to take out PPI with loans. How can the best interests of the customer be met if there is a clear conflict of interest between your responsibilities to me and the drive of your employees to sell Payment Protection Insurance in order to receive bonuses ?.

Since I cancelled the policy I have actually received a smaller reduction in the PPI loan interest payments than the figure stated on the agreement. The explanatory letter sent to me has I believe, confirmed that I have paid for single premium loan policies on each loan taken with your establishment.

No explanation was forthcoming from any advisor on the full extent of single premium policies or the fact that they would offer little or no refund if the loan was settled early or if the insurance was cancelled. There was also no explanation that the cost of the PPI would be added to the credit and interest added for the full term of the agreement. I believe this practice is unlawful.

Unless you can satisfactorily justify to me that the PPI policies attached to the loans were fair and reasonable, I am requesting a full refund of all costs including all single premiums that have been paid, the interest added to these premiums and the payments, that I have paid to date. As I believe I have been unlawfully deprived of this money I also expect interest at the rate applicable to of each of the loans at the date of the credit agreements.

 

Details of the single premiums for each account with the interest payments made are as follows:

xxx Account No xxxx

Insurance loan including interest on the loan = £6,109.32

Monthly interest payments made 8 April 2004 to 9 May 2005 £72.73 X 14 £1,018.22 Interest @ 7.2% £73.31

xxx Account No xxxx

Insurance loan including interest on the loan = £7,534.90

Monthly interest payments made 20 June 2005 to 20 July 2006 £89.70 X 14 £1,255.80 Interest @ 8.3% £104.23.

xxx Account No xxxx

Insurance loan including interest on the loan = £8448.72 Less rebate on PPI premium £5,598.03 and rebate on PPI interest £1,552.78 (£7,151.81) = £1,297.91

Monthly interest payments made 20 September 2007 to 22 January 2007 £100.58 X 5 £502.90 Interest @ 7.04% £35.40.

The total repayment figure I require is: £17,931.99p

 

I enclose copies of each of the credit agreement forms which show the PPI as a single figure loans which have been added to the loan amount and had insurance added to the total figure. I also enclose an early settlement statement on the current loan which clearly shows that an insurance premium rebate is not applicable.

 

If I do not receive a favourable response to this letter I will pursue my claim through the Financial Ombudsman, or the courts if necessary.

Yours faithfully,

alanalana

 

again a thumbs up or down will do although in Ancient Rome the thumbs down could mean send them lol

[hellhasnofury]

Hi Hellhasnofury.

 

Sorry to be thick but i cant get my head around how to use these spreadsheets. Have looked at both the advanced bank charges and credit charges sheets and am unsure what i need to put in. Am I supposed to put in each monthly payment of just PPI i paid ? Also because we extended the term to 25 years from May 2006 and they didnt give us a new agreement I dont know what the monthly PPI figure was from then until we settled the loan so I have no idea what amount to put in to calculate the interest, in addition the interest rate was variable and changed 4 times in a year so i am even more confused how to go about it.

 

Would it be ok if when i send my rejecting offer letter that i just say that i want a total refund of the policy of £6979.65 and interest made on the payments. and as we believe we have been deprived of our money we also expect 8% statutory interest, the amount a court would award. to be added to each payment made. Or should i try to work it precisely ? I am concerned because I dont understand how interest is calculated that I might ask for the wrong amount and mess the claim up.

 

Also when i told you that we didnt get a revised agreement when we amended the term and that also the loan was secured on our house, did any of that make any difference to our situation ?

 

Thanks

 

Sally

 

Hello Sally,

 

You are not thick, these spreadsheets are not easy to do if you have never done one. I was kindly guided through them by another cagger on my first time:oops:

 

In your letter it will be find to ask for interest at their contractual rate or statutory rate. I think looking at their interest rate the statutory 8%

will be the highest (this will include the variable rate) It is important that you have an idea of what it will be, so when they come back with figures, you know they are not taking the mick:-D

 

Have you received your SAR yet, It is important to know what rebate from the ppi and interest they included in the first loan????? This will affect your figures

 

How long did they give you to respond to their offer????

 

You can always accept this as part-settlement, but will continue to pursue the rest.

[KaneCole]

Hi Hellhasnofury.

 

Looking again at their last letter it says :

 

"I would be grateful if you would confirm acceptance of this offer in writing at your earliest convenience"

"This communication whould be viewed as our final response in relation to this matter, however, you can go to the ombudsman etc.."

 

Also they didnt mention the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) at all and I have received nothing, they said they are going to respond seperately regarding the first loan but again no mention of SAR. Should mention in my part settlement letter that I still require it ? Have checked my bank account and they haven't cashed the £10 cheque i sent. I guess they are presuming that I will accept the offer !!

 

 

This is what i have written to send, is it ok ?

 

Response to settlement offer.

 

Thank you for your letter dated 31st March 2008

We respectfully decline your offer as Full and Final settlement and request, once again, that you return to us a full refund of the policy totaling £6979.65 and the statutory interest made on these payments, minus the £1219.72 rebate that was included in the settlement figure of the loan. If you agree we would consider he matter closed.

We will accept the sum offered of £2500.43 only as part settlement and on the clear understanding that we will pursue recovery of the remainder, with a County Court claim if necessary.

If you do not accept our conditions for acceptance, please provide the information as requested in our letter dated 25th March 2008 under the Data Protection Act 1998 so we can pursue our complaint with the Financial Ombudsman. For the avoidance of doubt, we wish to stress that we do not accept your offer under the terms stated in your letter.

I trust this clarifies our position.

If we have not heard from you within 14 days to say if you can offer this amount, we shall be taking our complaint to the Financial Ombudsman.

Thanks again Sally

[hellhasnofury]

Hi Hellhasnofury.

 

Looking again at their last letter it says :

 

"I would be grateful if you would confirm acceptance of this offer in writing at your earliest convenience"

"This communication whould be viewed as our final response in relation to this matter, however, you can go to the ombudsman etc.."

 

Also they didnt mention the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) at all and I have received nothing, they said they are going to respond seperately regarding the first loan but again no mention of S.A.R - (Subject Access Request). Should mention in my part settlement letter that I still require it ? Have checked my bank account and they haven't cashed the £10 cheque i sent. I guess they are presuming that I will accept the offer !!

 

 

This is what i have written to send, is it ok ?

 

Response to settlement offer.

 

Thank you for your letter dated 31st March 2008

 

We respectfully decline your offer as Full and Final settlement and request, once again, that you return to us a full refund of the policy totaling £6979.65 and the statutory interest made on these payments, minus the £1219.72 rebate that was included in the settlement figure of the loan. If you agree we would consider he matter closed.

 

We will accept the sum offered of £2500.43 only as part settlement and on the clear understanding that we will pursue recovery of the remainder, with a County Court claim if necessary.

 

If you do not accept our conditions for acceptance, please provide the information as requested in our letter dated 25th March 2008 under the Data Protection Act 1998 so we can pursue our complaint with the Financial Ombudsman. For the avoidance of doubt, we wish to stress that we do not accept your offer under the terms stated in your letter.

 

I trust this clarifies our position.

 

If we have not heard from you within 14 days to say if you can offer this amount, we shall be taking our complaint to the Financial Ombudsman.

 

Thanks again Sally

 

Hello Sally

 

:grin:

[KaneCole]

Hi Hellhasnofury.

 

I sent this amended letter today with no specific figures entered because as you pointed out, without knowing what the rebate was on the 1st loan and what the monthly interest rate was on the 2nd loan it is impossible to come up with reasonably accurate figures. I will now wait to see their response and if the action the SAR. Thanks so much for all your help so far.

 

Sally. :grin:

 

Response to settlement offer.

 

Thank you for your letter dated 31st March 2008

We respectfully decline your offer as Full and Final settlement and request, once again, that you return to us a full refund of the policy and all interest made on these payments, minus the £1219.72 rebate that was included in the settlement figure of the loan. Also as we believe we have been deprived of our money we also expect 8% statutory interest, the amount a court would award, to be added to each payment. If you agree we would consider the matter closed.

We will accept the sum offered of £2500.43 only as part settlement and on the clear understanding that we will pursue recovery of the remainder, with a County Court claim if necessary.

Would you please comply with your obligations under the Data Protection Act 1998 and provide the information as requested in our letter dated 25th March 2008. For the avoidance of doubt, we wish to stress that we do not accept your offer under the terms stated in your letter.

I trust this clarifies our position.

If we have not heard from you within 14 days to say if you can offer a full rebate of all premiums paid and interest made on these payments, we shall be taking our complaint to the Financial Ombudsman.