Arrow/copes claimform - old HBOS Loan

[debbbbsy]

Hi,

 

Unfortunately there is no time limit to further enforcing the CO.

 

The restriction remains with the Land Registry until it is resolved.

[merlin100]

Hi guys, Ive read on here a few times that if a CCJ isnt acted upon for around six years then it can possibly cause problems in court should a Claimant then decide to act on it.

I got a CO on my property around six years ago ( before I found CAG) and no further action on it since then.

Today however, I get a letter from Morgan Solicitors saying that a CCJ has "recently" been granted in favour of Cabot and as a result, a CO and "Restriction or Notice" has been obtained on my property.

 

This isnt "recent". It refers to action taken six years ago.

 

So does anyone smell a rat here or is it just a "periodic" letter asking for money?

 

And does anyone have any good links to sites that deal with fighting a CO that go into some depth?

The original debt was with Bank of Scotland.

Thanks all.

[citizenB]

I suggest you check with Trust online and establish if this is the CCJ granted 6 years ago or whether it is a new one!

 

http://www.trustonline.org.uk/

 

It will cost you £2.00.

 

I would have thought that any restriction should have been placed on your property soon after the original judgment was awarded.

 

It certainly requires further investigation IMHO. Meanwhile, I will flag your thread for site team, see if anyone has any ideas.

[citizenB]

Some information from rebel11 for you

 

 

Some info:- http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/debt_w/debt_action_your_creditor_can_take_e/charging_orders.htm

 

 

http://www.incasso.co.uk/articles/19/no-time-limit-to-enforce-a-charging-order

 

http://www.wragge.com/published_articles_3937.asp

[merlin100]

Hi citizenb. Thanks for answering.

The CO is definately from six years ago as its a Bank of Scotland credit card. This letter has that as a reference and the account number.

Any possible covert reason why they might use the word "recent"?

Will now have a look at rebels links - cheers citizenb

[citizenB]

So, is it MORE than 6 years? If so, then they are going to have to apply to the court to enforce it. I am pretty sure the court will want to know why they have waited so long ?

[bigegg]

I've read a few times on here "Need to go back to court for permission after six years".

 

I've also read "even a judge can't overturn a Statute barring if you haven't paid for more than six years"

 

so how come a DC can go back to court for permission when Limitations Act 1980 says:

24 Time limit for actions to enforce judgments.

 

(1)An action shall not be brought upon any judgment after the expiration of six years from the date on which the judgment became enforceable

 

surely this means that even a judge can't give permission after six years?

[cerberusalert]

There are certain exceptions where the Statute of Limitations doesn't apply e.g when someone changes their name to avoid the debt.

 

A creditor can go back to seek permission to enforce but they have to show good cause as to why it wasn't enforced within the six years.

[bigegg]

[merlin100]

There are certain exceptions where the Statute of Limitations doesn't apply e.g when someone changes their name to avoid the debt.

 

A creditor can go back to seek permission to enforce but they have to show good cause as to why it wasn't enforced within the six years.

 

This is what I was wondering about?

Does the Statute of Limitations apply to a CO?

It concerns me because Ive read many posts and articles about how a company can get a CO then sit back and wait for circumstances to arise that see the house sold and collect their money, but if the Statute includes a CO, then what would have been the point anyway as they would still only have six years to collect?

And what "good causes" could a company use to enforce a CO?

Thanks all

[cerberusalert]

Have you checked with the Land Registry to see what the time limits are on filing?

 

http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/public/contacts

[merlin100]

Have you checked with the Land Registry to see what the time limits are on filing?

 

http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/public/contacts

 

No I havent cerberusalert. Would the time limit start from the day the CO was awarded or from the date the Land Registry recieved its information?

[merlin100]

Actually, after reading through rebel11s posted links, it would seem Im pretty much stuffed with the CO.

Maybe I should begin to look at the original CCJ and whether it can be compromised in any way, but maybe Ive left that too late?

Anyway, a lot of in-depth reading ahead..............

[cerberusalert]

Had the CO been registered with the registry previously or is this Cabot willy waving? If they had have applied for a CO you should have had court papers.

[merlin100]

Yes, maybe they are just willy-waving. I did have court papers around 6/7 years ago, but like many, didnt know about CAG and buried my head in the sand.

I did consider an attempt at challenging the original CCJ, but have read many times that its quite a precarious - indeed dangerous - thing to do at this stage.

I think I need to read a lot more about this with a view to possible multiple defences.

[merlin100]

Hi all,

after 7 years of having a CO in place and no-one attempting any collection activity, Im now getting the odd missive from the above.

Im now being told that if I do not contact them, they may apply for an AOE (but not limited to that action). Im currently unemployed so not too worried about that one, but maybe this could be getting serious so are there any CO experts on here that could help me defend or even fend this off for a while?

 

A few questions that I would really appreciate any answers on -

 

1. Is it possible to reclaim any historical charges, penalties and PPI applied before the account attracted a CO?

2. Can I still apply for copies of CCA, statements etc by way of a SAR, and if so does it go to the original creditor and again, if so, do I also send one to Morgans to see if they have also added their own charges?

3. Would my currently unemployed status assist or hinder me should this go back to court?

 

Many thanks all

[unclebulgaria67]

Do Morgan even know about the CO ?

 

If not, it might just be worth writing to them, to just bring to their attention that there is a CO in place.

 

You can still look into the issues in points 1) and 2) in your post. In regard to 3), I am not sure that it would be worth them going back to court and looking to take this further. When you write back to them about the current position, tell them that you are currently unemployed and receiving benefits.

 

The letters that you are receiving, sound like they are standard letters, so you need to make them aware of the situation, so they either stop writing to you or send a letter that actually is relevant to the current position.

[merlin100]

Hi unlce,

yes, Morgans are aware of the CO - its them that are sending the letters with references to it ( and the subtle threats)

Can you explain further what you mean by saying you are not sure it it would be worth them going back to court to take this further?

 

I havent bothered looking into any unlawful charges/PPI etc as I didnt want to rattle anyones cage unnecessarily - but looks like I might have to now!

I also wondered if a CO can become SBd? And if so, would the 6 year rule apply or could it be deemed "under seal" thereby extending the time limit to 12 years?

[AndyOrch]

Take a read here Merlin :- http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?349972-Limitations-Act-1980-CCJ-s

 

Regards

 

Andy

[unclebulgaria67]

Andy

 

Are you saying that the CO is now useless (limitations) and they would need to go back to court, to ask if a judge would now extend this or other ways to enforce the debt ?

[AndyOrch]

If the Judgment has not been enforced within the 6 year period then yes, any warrant should be renewed every 12 months to enable collection also.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[DonkeyB]

Charging orders do not go away!

 

While a judge might be reluctant to allow enforcement on a CCJ after more than six years, a charging order has a specific purpose, and is a further action of security which is taken after a CCJ is granted. For example, the creditor may not be able to recoup their money until you move home or, even, die – so forget six years and limitations with a CO. It won’t wash.

 

As mentioned, however, the question is whether they know it is there. But if you did sell, a solicitor would be obliged to deal with it and discharge it on completion.

[DonkeyB]

If the Judgment has not been enforced within the 6 year period then yes, any warrant should be renewed every 12 months to enable collection also.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Are you sure? The judgment has been secured by way of the charging order! Do you mean that they can’t use the CCJ to instigate an attachment of earnings? That would be the case, of course.

[AndyOrch]

I am talking CCJs not Charging Orders DB, there is a lot of confusion here on the site with regards to a CCJ and a Charging Order.As you rightfully state a Charging Order is only a means of execution of the CCJ as is AoE or a third Party debt Order.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[DonkeyB]

Yeah, get where you’re coming from. Was concerned by the OP’s question about COs becoming SB – they never do.

 

The only option realistically open to the creditor now is to force a sale – which would almost certainly fail. And they are way too late to apply for an AoE, I believe – does anyone have the belt and braces on the law for this? I would suggest that even implying they could get an AoE after all this time is a very misleading practice, and one that should be reported to the OFT.

 

And definitely get reclaiming charges and PPI from the original creditor. They cannot credit it against your account or the judgment – the money should come to you.