Arrow/copes claimform - old HBOS Loan

[merlin100]

Hi all, what a great site.

New here, not a complete dummy when it comes to taking the ****** DCAs on, but a little deviation from the normal proceedure has created a question -

Got a CCJ from the Northampton clearing centre, a week later got a bog standard letter saying its being transferred to Guildford CC. I live hundreds of miles away from there, and have never lived there.

So the question is this - can I still send a "prove the debt" letter to the claimant?

And if I can - how does that affect the CCJ?

Many thanks in advance all.

[rory32]

Has the CCJ actually been granted against you or has a claim for a CCJ been filed against you?

[merlin100]

Hi rory, sorry, should have been more specific. Ive just got the CCJ application and the letter of transferrance so I assume its just been filed at the moment

[rory32]

Okay what type of account is it and when was it taken out? Also could you please post the Particulars of Claim. When did you receive the claim form?

[merlin100]

Hi rory. Its for a credit card taken out around 5 or six years ago. The issue date on the Claim Form is 18/03/08.

Claimant - Arrow Global

Address for sending documents - Copes Solicitors

 

Particulars of Claim -

1. The claimant is Assignee of the debt from Halifax Bank of Scotland (HBOS)

("The Assignor")

The claim represents the balance of payments due under a loan agreement made between the assignor and the defendant regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

2. The Agreement provides for-

Payment of equal monthly installments

and

in default the assignor may recover the balance of the principal sum:

and

all charges provided for.

 

3. In breach of the said agreement the defendant failed to make payment or comply with a default notice served by the assignee.

The agreement was terminated accordingly.

 

4. the balance payable by the defendant i £xxxx.xx which is claimed together with costs.

 

Any suggestions please?

[merlin100]

Hi all,

I need some help re my problem.

 

I am now at the stage where Morgan Solicitors are threatening that if I do not contact them with an offer of payment on the Charging Order on my property, they will apply for an order of sale.

 

 

A bit of history.....

 

I have never responded to any letters or proceedings (my fault, nasty divorce and burying head in sand).

 

Can I start the original process of CCA, then SAR, then CPR?

If so, could it work at this stage should no-one have the requested documents?

 

Please advise and many thanks.

[gavin2121]

Hi,

From what I’ve read so far in other forums also is that the CCA request can be applied for at any time. I would suggest that you send the request to the solicitors too as they are now acting on the lenders behalf.... if they fail to produce the paperwork then they'll have trouble putting you through the courts for your home.

 

I may be wrong.... but you won't do any damage asking anyway.

Hope this helps and good luck.

[yourturntopay]

I think they are tryig scare tatics - especially if they are saying that they want you to make an offfer of payment - if they had a CCJ then the payments would be set.

 

They can only obtain a Charging Order if they have a County Court Judgement against you.

 

Send off the CCA request asap and also a SAR might be useful to the company that the debt was originally with - they might be some charges etc you can claim back if the CCA is compliant and its useful to haev all the info you can if they do decide to start going down the court route

[merlin100]

Sorry guys - CCJ already got last year. Forthwith.

Charging Order already got.

Now trying to sort it all out.

So is a CCA stil viable? And could it cause damage to them even now if they cannot provide a copy of the agreement?

Thanks all.

[merlin100]

bump

[Markiemark1]

I think in theory it's possible. I read a post on here involving HFC/Restons/Marlin where the CCJ was set aside because the agreement was non-existant, with charging order discharged.

 

Definitely worth getting the Agreement, and then go from there.

 

For your information if they do decide to go for an Order for Sale seperate Part 8 proceedings would have to be issued and if your property is owned in joint names that the Trusts of Land and Appointment of Trustees Act would apply (I'm going from memory but I think that's what it's called!).

 

Courts are very reluctant to grant Orders for Sale.

 

Kind regards

 

 

Mark

[merlin100]

Hi all,

first can I just say that since joining this site and reading everything I can,

 

to date Ive managed to get just over £9000 "written off" or to the point that it can never be legally pursued, and for this I thank each and every one of you.

 

But now I have some questions that I hope some of you can help me with.......

 

Before I knew of this site, one of my debts got to a Charging Order.

 

with 3 kids to look after, very little money and a vindictive ex-wife firing all kinds of crap at me through her solicitor

- I pretty much buried my head in the sand and simply concentrated on getting my kids to school and going to work

- and it wasnt easy, believe me!

 

I couldnt even get Child or Working Tax Credits because the ex had mananged to have the payments transferred to her account (from mine) without my knowledge and the DWP wouldnt entertain any claim from me until they had contacted her, but she was keeping a very low profile.

 

One of my debts went through the usual Northampton County Court route, judgement forthwith etc, and then onto a CO.

 

In all that time, I never acknowledged ANY DCA letter.

I ddint acknowledge the County Court forms, in fact to date, I havent once responded to anything.

 

Im now getting threats from a DCA for an Order to reposses the house if I do not contact them and make arrangements to pay

 

So now is the time to try and sort this out, so here are my questions -

 

1. Can I still send them a CCA and if so, does the CCA carry as much weight as if it had been sent before a CCJ or CO was granted?

 

2. Can I SAR them and then move onto the CPR route?

 

I sincerely hope some of you guys have some answers here, and many thanks in advance

[Bazooka Boo]

Hello Merlin,

As I see it, and this is only info I have gleaned from the web, so other may be better suited to advise, but if a charging order has already been obtained, then a CCA would be next to pointless as the court has already decided that you owe an amount of money (judgement) and have failed to meet payments so the court has placed a CO on your property.

However looking at the HMCS website, I fail to see where it says that a DCA can repossess the house in order to receive payment?

As I understand it, they only receive payment on the sale of the house?

Enforcing Judgement

 

Charging Order

 

A charge on a property means that if the property is sold, the charge has usually to be paid first before any of the proceeds of the sale can be given to the judgement debtor. You should note, however, that a charging order does not compel the judgement debtor to sell the property.

[debt4get]

they could try to enforce payment by asking the court to order you to sell, however, as you have a family the chances of this being granted is about zero, you may however have to come to some arrangement to pay them, I would offer the lowest amount you can afford, maybe a couple of quid, as previous stated pointless now going to cca as court order already in force,

It is a salutory lesson for us all in that these things must be headed off before dca gets near a court, I was in same position so believe me i know

[spamheed]

As stated above a CCA would be pointless

 

How much is the debt for?

Do you have equity in the property?

 

When the CO was applied were there any stipulations made?

ie how much and how often to make a payment?

 

have you made any payments against the debt at all?

 

If a CO is in place and the debtor is not making an attempt to repay the debt, then the creitor has a right to apply for a sale order on the property, even though the courts and DCAs have been ordered to play fair when it comes to reposessions, this doesn't mean that they dont happen, so tread carefully over this, do not dismiss it!!

 

It is not beyond the reaalm of possibility to get a CO set aside, but it is far from straight forward, as the courts can take the opionion that you should have defended at an earlier stage

[merlin100]

Hi all.

thanks for the replies, very helpful but pretty much as I thought.

Just a query though - lets say they got the original CCJ by default (they did), but didnt provide proof that the debt belonged to me (Northhampton, so very unlikely). Surely then, if there is now no recourse for me to demand they prove the debt, what is to stop any of these firms simply applying for CCJs and attaching ANY debt to a debtor by gambling that the debtor will not defend and knowing that once the CCJ is awarded, that debtor cannot get out of the debt - even if it doesnt belong to them?

This sounds rather loaded in a creditors favour to me.

Any suggestions?

[twofoot]

I'd be surprised if a CCA was pointless. I would have thought that the first step would be to get the CCJ set aside and that may involve getting a CCA. If the CCJ was set aside then the CO could be knocked off. I'm not too well versed on this so it's just my opinion. Question is can the CCJ be challenged at this late stage, I think it can. Needs a legal boffin to help out on this one. Without a CCJ there cannot have a CO.

[FunkyFox]

Merlin, I don't neccesarily agree that a CCA would be entirely pointless. There are many examples on CAG of people who have managed to get a CCJ set aside and the CO removed long after the event. I myself had 2 removed and the won the subsequent action. Both debts can no longer be enforced.

 

It is a long shot and requires a great deal of work but it can be done. but nothing is guranteed.

 

As others say the chances of the getting an order for sale is next to zero so the alternative may be to agree an affordable monthly repayment and take some comfort from the fact that they won't get a penny unless you sell the house.

 

Do you mind if I ask, how much the debt is and who the creditor/dca is? Also when was judgement granted?

 

It sounds like you've had a rough time. Best of luck with whatever you decide.

[spamheed]

The CCA would be pointless in as much as they already have a CCJ and it is that which must be addressed first, simply making a CCA request will not undo the CCJ, nor will it cast doubt over the validity of the CCJ on its own.

 

The CCJ will need to be "undone" before the validity of the CCA once again becomes an issue

[FunkyFox]

The CCA would be pointless in as much as they already have a CCJ and it is that which must be addressed first, simply making a CCA request will not undo the CCJ, nor will it cast doubt over the validity of the CCJ on its own.

 

The CCJ will need to be "undone" before the validity of the CCA once again becomes an issue

 

I disagree that it is 'pointless'. I was in a very similar situation (I made a CCA request after judgement in 2 cases) and in both cases had judgement set aside and CO removed and cases were struck out and discontinued respectively. It certainly won't be easy but it MAY be worth a try.

 

As you know in order to 'undo' the CCJ you have to fulfil certain critera and one of those is that you have a defence in the event that the CCJ was set aside. Otherwise it is just a waste of the courts systems time to set aside a judgement if the outcome will just be the same. If there is no CCA or an unenforceable one then that would form the basis for the defence and as such I would advise the OP to try ascertain if one exists or not and if so is it enforceable. They will have to also convince the court they were unaware of the judgement and CO hearing too which could be a struggle.

 

I agree it is going to be a struggle as the CO has also been made final so judgement has been enforced.

 

I don't hearing a fat lady singing just yet but she is clearing her throat!!

[spamheed]

Obviously it is the OP's optionto chase up on the CCA and/or the CCJ as they wish.

 

I have seen set asides awarded on the grounds of a CCJ obtained without following due practice, ie they broke the rules when obtaining the CCJ.

Had the CCJ been obtained without breach or irregularity, then the set aside would have failed.

 

I have seen many CCJ set asides refused when the only defence was a defaulted request for the CCA.

 

But there is always a first time

[merlin100]

Hi all again - Hi Funkyfox, seems like youve been here!

This is getting very interesting. A bit of info -

The CO ws obtained around 12 months ago and I havent heard anything till now.

In the 4 years since the account (if mine) went into default, I havent acknowledged ANYTHING whatsoever. My fault I know, but now its time to sort it all out.

I think my starting point is a CCA - if no-one can prove this debt then how can any court endorse it? Isnt it the rule of thumb that the creditor has to prove the debt - not the debtor?

Following on from this, surely a court is wrong to award a benefit to a creditor simply on their say so? If so, then whats wrong me me accusing anyone of owing me money and taking the chance that they do not repond thereby having that debt enforced against them knowing then there is nothing they can then do?

There must be a way out of this. The scenario as it stands seems quite unjust.

[merlin100]

Hi all,

had a CO on my house for 5 or 6 years. All been very quiet since it was put there.

Now suddenly Im getting letters from Maddersons Solicitors saying that they are looking at my case with their client (Arrow Global) to establish the best method of enforcement they can use to obtain payment.

So how likely is a Judge to order a sale should it go back to court?

The debt is £2700+.

There are no children living here.

Thanks all.

[BankFodder]

have you been making regular payments to reduce the debt? Or has nothing been done since the charging order?

If you have been making regular payments and reducing the debt, then I think it would be difficult any judge to order the enforcement. On the other hand if you've done nothing then I think that there is a real risk.

[merlin100]

Hi all. As said in the past, before I found CAG I got a CCJ and consequently, a CO.

 

Now Ive followed a few threads on here re CCJs and how, after six years, a DCA would find it very difficult to "re-enforce" that CCJ,

and has to first get the permission of a judge and that permission is very rarely given.

 

I cant find much more about this so can anyone tell me if this is a legal framework and under what rules it falls?

 

My second, and more important question is this

- if the CCJ gets to this six year rule without any attempt at collection, and for want of a better description, becomes "out of time",

how would this affect the CO obtained from that CCJ?

 

Surely if the CCJ "expires", then the CO could not be enforced either.

Or are they entirely seperate entities?

 

If they are linked however, then what rules/laws do I need to swot up on to arm myself?

Thanks all.