MBNA/Abbey Card Possible CCA Non compliance

[tinkerbell20]

Any news on this?

[FANTASY CHARGES]

Hello Steven!

 

 

 

Assuming the Copies really are taken from the Original Two-Sided Signed Agreement that is! And assuming they still have the Original to take Copies from.

 

The "thing" they have sent could just be a collection of Scans or Photocopies, and not necessarily from the same Original.

 

I've been sent some that are clearly just two Documents merged via Duplex Photocopier. It didn't fool me, and the banker concerned now seems amazingly reluctant to enforce the "thing" they knocked up so enthusiastically via Photocopier.

 

Repeat after me everyone:

 

When in Court, only the Original Signed in Ink Agreement will do!

 

Otherwise you could find they are Enforcing last Year's Bus Time Table, merged with Chinese Set Meal for Two Menu B, overlaid with a nice Scan of your Signature and some attractive and handy Prescribed Terms plucked from somewhere else.

 

If they don't have the Original Paper Agreement that YOU signed in ink, that contains all of the Prescribed Terms, then fight them all the way.

 

Do not be fooled or defeated by a Photocopier.

 

If you are in any doubt, I'd ask them to let you see the Original. Put that in a Letter and, if they refuse and then they take you to Court, you can show that the whole sorry mess could've been avoided if they had just shown you they either had it, or didn't have it.

 

Cheers,

BRW

 

the existence of a form N268

 

notice to prove documents at trial came to light (of course others already knew of its existence) in the last couple of days:

 

the first link below (to a posting on daves thread) talks about the idea

 

Originally Posted by macie

I was thinking about serving Notice to prove documents at trial under CPR 32.19

 

"Notice to admit or produce documents

32.19 (1) A party shall be deemed to admit the authenticity of a document disclosed to him under Part 31 (disclosure and inspection of documents) unless he serves notice that he wishes the document to be proved at trial.

(2) A notice to prove a document must be served –

(a) by the latest date for serving witness statements; or

(b) within 7 days of disclosure of the document, whichever is later."

 

 

 

and the second link is to printout an N268 form

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-1651212.html

 

 

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/HMCSCourtFinder/FormFinder.do

 

Enter N268 into the second link

[stroke a badger]

Ok, things have gone up a notch here as the debt has been sold to Arrow and they have increased the amount by just over £2k. Chris is concerned that any day now he is either going to get a visit from the heavies of a court summons. The former will not happen (I have emailed him the appropriate letter to post off today) however after Chris read the letter to me over the phone it seems that they mean business and this could go all the way.

 

For reasons I don't want to go in to I might have to take this one on myself and Chris is at the moment not in a position to commit the time to this. This matter is way over my head and I'm not 100% certain what to do.

 

Once I have a copy of the letter I will post it on here.

[stroke a badger]

After almost six weeks of silence this was posted by Special delivery - no expense spared!!

 

Looks like I'm going to have to CCA our friends at Fredrickson.

[AA99]

Edited October 14, 2008 by AA99
mis-read post, pardon.....

[stroke a badger]

Well spotted

 

I was editing the scanned image on a friends PC and was in a hurry. The amount in question is something like £6,200.

[stroke a badger]

Man, Will this ever end!!

 

After requesting a copy of the CCA from Fredrickson they have sent this.

 

 

 

 

I have just spent the last three hours trying to reassure Chris that it's not the end of world and with some help from my CAG Buddy's Fredrickson can be defeated.

 

I offered to help a friend who because of one thing and another had fallen on hard times but I'm now finding that now i have less time to spend on this because of my own commitments.

 

Should this letter be of concern, should we just wait for the 12+30 days or do we need to start thinking about court.

 

Any help guys would be appreciated.

[car2403]

It's a "may" and a "should" instead of a "will" and a "would", so I'd give it the respect that it deserves and ignore it.

 

What you could do, if you really, really want to, is write to them reminding them of their legal obligations which remain unfulfilled and tell them any Court action will be vigourously defended should they continue.

[FANTASY CHARGES]

Ok, things have gone up a notch here as the debt has been sold to Arrow and they have increased the amount by just over £2k[COLLECTION CHARGE ????? ]. Chris is concerned that any day now he is either going to get a visit from the heavies of a court summons. The former will not happen (I have emailed him the appropriate letter to post off today) however after Chris read the letter to me over the phone it seems that they mean business and this could go all the way.

 

For reasons I don't want to go in to I might have to take this one on myself and Chris is at the moment not in a position to commit the time to this. This matter is way over my head and I'm not 100% certain what to do.

 

Once I have a copy of the letter I will post it on here.

 

 

Charging for debt collection

2.9 Charges should not be levied unfairly.

 

2.10 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

a. claiming collection costs from a debtor in the absence of express

contractual or other legal provision

 

b. misleading debtors into believing they are legally liable to pay

collection charges when this is not the case, for example, when there

is no contractual provision

 

c. not giving an indication in credit agreements of the amount of any

charges payable on default

 

d. applying unreasonable charges, for example, charges not based on actual

and necessary costs

 

e. applying charges which are disproportionate to the main debt.

[steven4064]

SAB

 

I sent you a PM

[stroke a badger]

NEXT!!!

 

How kind of them to include a "push out payment card"

 

 

Nothing has been received from Fredrickson regarding the CCA request which is now on day 21.

[stroke a badger]

Hiya guys,

 

Fredrickson have yet to comply with our CCA request made 17/10. Chris received this a couple of days ago and to be honest it's hit him hard as he now believes that he is going to have to borrow money from friends and relatives to pay this off.

 

 

What do I do next, any pointers would help.

[Fred Bassett]

Just write and ask them to comply with your CCA request.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

[banker_rhymes_with]

Just write and ask them to comply with your CCA request.

 

...and remind Bryan that he really must read the Consumer Credit Act 1974 again, especially s78(6).

 

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

 

 

 

He seems to keep forgetting that little chestnut.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[car2403]

Now that this letter states they will issue proceedings, you can use this against them;

 

Simply, make an application to them advising them that you require a signed copy of the original agreement and you require it in its full form as it was on the day you signed it.

 

make it clear this is not a request made under the consumer credit act 1974 but under the Civil Procedure Rules

 

Part 31.16(3)(d) gives you a right of disclosure where you believe that you have a case and it is desirable for disclosure to allow you to assess if you have a claim or not, this is to allow you to resolve matters at an early stage

 

so i would advise them that if they dont comply with your request within 14 days you will make an application to the court for an order pursuant to CPR 31.16

 

i hope this helps

 

Now, if they fail to reply to this and issue proceedings, they will be in breach of CPR automatically from the start.

 

This is more powerful than the CCA request breach, which is bad enough, and is an appropriate response to this LBA letter.

[stroke a badger]

Guys your thoughts please

 

Ok so with a little help from UKaviator I have completed the POC and have sent a copy by email to my friend for him to approve and sign. For some reason I asked him to check his credit record to see who is showing as owning the debit but it has disappeared.

 

The account was defaulted nearly two years ago now and was then passed to Arrow then Fredrickson for collection but after various letters going backwards and forwards requesting a copy of the credit agreement and them threatening to sacrifice Chris's newborn child if he didn't pay things have fallen silent.

 

Now my question is this. By claiming against MBNA for miss-sold PPi are we waking a sleeping monster. Chris is in much better condition than he was 18 months ago but the last thing i want to do is make things worse just when he is on the way back up.