DWP alledged fraud. Co-habiting HELP!

[waterbottle]

I know this is a long shot but Frank Field used to be actively involved in social security. Maybe we could write a collective letter to ask him to ask a question in commons. Let me know what you think. It would need to be a concise letter initially.

 

I have written to a few lords about my own situation but none have replied as yet.

[sweetnsexyenglish]

But what would be the question ?

 

How can Government actually think to raise the benefit by little over a pound and still expect those on benefits to survive?

 

Why does the Government assume that the Student Loan is enough to live on even during these rising times of cost which also affects those of us on welfare? Do they not realise being on benefit still means we have water/gas/electric bills just to mention a few.

 

Investigating fraud, i'm all for if that's what they want to believe it is, but to put a family in severe hardship with the removal of benefit which not only is intended to feed but also pay bills and cover the cost of rent and council tax means you also place a person in the position of becoming homeless...how do they justify that?

 

Actually instead of asking questions why don't those in parliament come down and see how we are really living, come by mine for a coffee and a chat and see how one parent families really do it?

[waterbottle]

I agree with your points SSE. I was thinking of something, carefully worded, about maladministration. Basically meaning that DWP, in every sphere, routinely break the rules to their own advantage.

 

When you read the rules about Social Security they do seem reasonable, but I am willing to bet that in both your case and that of Millenia they will have acted improperly. No one reigns them in though.

 

Social security decisions are usually not the direct result of a law but more to do with guidance that the law gives on decisions. The DWP then makes a decision that is unjust because there is no law forbidding it. It is then up to the claimant to appeal and if and when the DWP are proven wrong they suffer zero punishment.

 

Maladministration needs to become a more serious offence in my opinion as it hides things like fraud and recklessness. I am willing to bet that if an impartial legal adviser looked at Millenia's case they would see that the DWP have acted wrongly.

[Millennia]

Waterbottle: I am willing to go down that route and help with a letter to someone.

 

The DWP act unfairly in many cases, but how can we stop it? If someone read their evidence against me they would see the DWP saying they 'assume' 'seems likely' seems unlikey' etc.. they are accusing me on 'assumptions' and not what I tell them is fact. I am effectively guilty until I prove myself innocent, and although I am innocent I am having trouble proving it because od someone elses actions.. ie: my boyfriend choosing to sleep at his mums/friends/in his car (no fixed address). I am being punished for him being 'homeless' yet homeless is not a crime! As a result of this they then made me homeless and that still is not enough for them.

 

Its a long shot, but lets give it a go...All I have left now is my children. They have lost their home too, I dont want them to lose their mother as well..

[Millennia]

My appeal date still has not come through yet, and I am in the process of gathering as much evidence I can to support my innocence, but it seems they are still taking me to court anyway. My date has been set for the 11th June. A week away! They have not even given me time to get an appointment with my solicitor! I am currently on holiday and return to the area on the 9th.. its almost as if they knew!

 

I am so scared.

[sweetnsexyenglish]

All I can do is wish you good luck, I have heard nothing from mine, the information they said would be quicker if supplied by me has been with no responce or thanks, no returned phone calls and meanwhile my rent is over £200 in arrears....they are quite happy to take as long as they want so that I may loose my home due to their inefficency, put in a new claim on another persons suggestion and keep being told I am more than entitled to IS which would bring me up to the minimum wage the government state I need to live on, I told em NO WAY....I never had this headache or intrusion in my personal affairs when I didn't take their IS regardless of whether I am now living below the minimum.

[Millennia]

They dont care if you lose your home, and they wont apologise if you win your case! I lost my home and they still want a bigger bite of me! They dont want you to have anything or get anywhere in life, and if you do they will knock you down!

 

I have now had to stoop to asking people to write statements for me.. imagine how embarrassing that is.. and when they dismiss these statements as evidence its like a slap in the face.

 

Good Luck with yours too x

[Hobbie]

I remember when the DWP sent me a letter informing me of a visit at home to conduct an informal interview.

 

Accused me of living with my partner and working yes working! via information received from an anonymous report. Well I played along with them, answered the questions fully admited to living with my wife and child and that I was in full time paid employment.

 

It wasn't until AFTER the informal interview concluded that I asked them the question...... wait for it....

 

"What exactly are you investigating, as neither myself nor my wife claim any benefits?"

 

This confused them some what, never heard another thing again from them other than a letter confirming an interview had taken place.

 

Just goes to show the DWP do make mistakes, and try giving you a hard time, but at the end of the day alot of people do defraud the DWP and claim as a single person when are living as a couple, the problem is people with a grudge are able to so easy make anonymous reports, and don't even get looked into prior to interview.

[Millennia]

haha.. am sorry I shouldnt laugh, but i would love to have seen their faces when you said that! And I bet you got no apology! I just wish it was that simple for me. It seems that a girl cannot have a boyfriend of 'no fixed address', and that no matter how innocent I am its up to me to prove it.. Guilty until I prove otherwise!

[Hobbie]

Millennia,

 

The problem is like I mentioned, it is far to easy to people who may hold a grudge against someone to make a report to the DWP, knowing fine well that the tip off is anonymous or at least knowing that the person won't find out who made the allegation.

 

Sadly with these government agencies and even in some cases even with the police "Innocent until proved otherwise" doesn't seem to be the case.

 

Why should people have to prove innocence, when it is upto these agencies to prove guilt, but the DWP and HMRC seem to have the opinion it is the other way, and you need to prove your innocence.

 

I can totally understand your case, and the DWP have gone for the "easy pickings" It is up to them to prove that your boyfriend was living with you, and not for you to prove otherwise, of course though you need to be reasonable with them and assist them, but just becareful on your answers to any questions.

 

And as someone previously said, see if you can get legal aid and instruct a solicitor to represent you.

 

And I bet you got no apology!

 

Nope, not a thing.

[steven4064]

It is up to them to prove that your boyfriend was living with you, and not for you to prove otherwise,

The problem is though that they have the upper hand - they can withhold benefits whilst they investigate. Even if they find out that the allegations are groundless and you get all your money, you have still been without it for several weeks and that can lead to debt, bank charges .... Some people never recover financially even when proven innocent

[Hobbie]

Indeed that is usually the case, and can cause financial suffering to people.

 

And once proven innocent will you get an apology from the DWP? ... in the famous words of Jim Royale "my a..e" will you get an apology, nor will you get any extra help you get you out of the financial trouble that they've put you into.

[JonCris]

My appeal date still has not come through yet, and I am in the process of gathering as much evidence I can to support my innocence, but it seems they are still taking me to court anyway. My date has been set for the 11th June. A week away! They have not even given me time to get an appointment with my solicitor! I am currently on holiday and return to the area on the 9th.. its almost as if they knew!

 

I am so scared.

 

You must contact the court ASAP explaining that you will be away & that you need time to consult your solicitor. Under the circumstances they should not deny you a continuance/adjournment & change of date). Don't let them bully you into backing down.

 

Also tell the court you have appealed the DWP decision so the action by them should have been suspended until after that was concluded

 

After phoning don't forget to put everything in writing to the court confirming your discussion with them

[sweetnsexyenglish]

The problem is though that they have the upper hand - they can withhold benefits whilst they investigate. Even if they find out that the allegations are groundless and you get all your money, you have still been without it for several weeks and that can lead to debt, bank charges .... Some people never recover financially even when proven innocent

 

 

Before I even received notification of interview or hearing what the allegation was they had stopped my money, I actually found out about my interview when I phoned up to say I had not been paid. The letter arrived after I had the interview.

 

Had they not automatically assumed me guilty before interview they would not have plunged my family and I into debt by the removal of my money without even notice.

 

And no matter how helpful I have been to provide information, as they said it would take the bank 12 weeks to send the bank statements through, yet no reply to say oh thanks, made three calls to the investigating officer who has not returned my calls. And the information they have given me do not take info account my circumstances, so while I am worrying about the roof over my kids head they just say get a note put on your file.

 

However the letters for none payment of rent are part of a process housing have to follow. its been 4 weeks with not as much as a word from the investigating team and my rent is now 4 weeks in arrears. My biggest fear was the 12 weeks they are prepared to wait and let my rent go into debt but for all the info I have provided I have heard nothing, the main issue of me allegedly receiving money from uni when I made my claim can be disputed by the organisations themselves as the SLC have confirmed since 03/04 was the last time I was at uni and the last time I received money. I started benefit in 05 when I moved a few months before my baby was due and they have confirmed I received no such payment...now the other part of it...

 

I have sent in all my nursery payments, and and bank statements for the time in question, yes I have admitted I was at uni in 06/07 and had not realised I wasn't entitled to IS what else is there to investigate, work out what I would have been entitled to as strangely my money was being under paid anyway according to CLA who worked out my money, housing benefit is still claimable based on the fact I had nursery bills and children yet DWP say I wouldn't be? I don't get it....

 

What I do understand though is when I have lived on less than the minimum wage with no assistance from DWP my life has been accusation free. No matter how desperate I get now, there is no way I would take their money again.....even with an apology. I have survived by working when I am well and making do when I am too ill to work and though the situation has been tight it has been better than what things are now. If I am entitled to DLA then all the better but if it turns out I am not... well hey I have been ill since 2001 and survived so I guess I will again:rolleyes:

[Millennia]

Well my update is this.. having had enough of the UK I am now in the process of moving into the EU. My solicitor and I went to the court with the intention of adjurning the case until after the appeal, and it was put aside for 3 weeks whilst it all goes back to the DWP to decide if they wish to continue going to trial with my 'not guilty plea' or discharging it as I am now overseas.. Either way the appeal is a seperate issue (although for the same matter) Confusing!! so I will have to still attend the appeal.

Financially this has crippled my family and we have only pennies to live on until my b/f gets work. I dont even know how I can afford to return for the trial.

[Millennia]

Update: Despite the fact that there is no evidence against me (probably because I am innocent!), and I have no money, live overseas, and am now ill with the stress of it all.. the DWP have still decided that its not 'in public interests' to let me 'get off' with this.. They are taking me to trial (magistrates). They cannot prove that b/f was living with me (cos he wasnt) but because he was homeless (no rent book anywhere) I apparently dont have a leg to stand on! I wish he had have been living with me now, as I wouldnt have had the debts I have and I wouldnt feel as bad being done for summat I was guilty of!

 

I cannot even afford my flight back to fight this, I have no money / income, and this will cost me my house yet again. A conviction will also cost me my career!

 

I need help fast? who can help me? press? anyone please..

[sweetnsexyenglish]

I can sympathise, as my Doctor has scored me as moderately depressed, and thinks councilling is required to help me as the amount of stress I am under has also contributed to the many migraines I am having....

 

My advice to you (and at this point anything is worth a shot) Iwrote my MP when nothing else helped and the Local Government Ombudsman...who deals with the local authority, it has worked wonders as it pushed the housing office and housing benefit to do more than allow my arrears to grow and keep issuing me with bills for my rent and a notice seeking possession notice. Now my rent has been paid that is one less stress not worrying what will happen or where I will live.

 

I was advised to write to the DWP ombudsman also and if I will put all links below and would suggest if you have not tried these avenues then nothing ventured nothing gained, good luck sweetie

[sweetnsexyenglish]

I can sympathise, as my Doctor has scored me as moderately depressed, and thinks councilling is required to help me as the amount of stress I am under has also contributed to the many migraines I am having....

 

My advice to you (and at this point anything is worth a shot) I wrote my MP when nothing else helped and the Local Government Ombudsman...who deals with the local authority, it has worked wonders I not only received an acknowledgement via email, but a letter in the post and he contacted the local authority, and I can tell you the housing officer has seemed quite shirty since then lol but I dont quite care as it pushed the housing office and housing benefit to do more than allow my arrears to grow and keep issuing me with bills for my rent and a notice seeking possession notice. Now my rent has been paid that is one less stress not worrying what will happen or where I will live.

 

I was advised to write to the DWP ombudsman also and if I am right you can also ask your MP to act on that also will put all links below and would suggest if you have not tried these avenues then nothing ventured nothing gained, but also remember to put in a letter of complaint to DWP if you have not already...good luck sweetie

 

Local Government Ombudsman - Complaint Form Local Authority Ombusman

 

Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman - home DWP Ombudsman

 

The Independent Case Examiner Website - Home Page Investigates DWP complaints

[Millennia]

Thanks for that and I am glad that you had a little success with your case. My MP will not get involved now as I left the area (I felt disgraced) and then when I lost my house I left the country.. I am scared to put in a complaint in case it gives them more reason to target me..

[sweetnsexyenglish]

Thanks for that and I am glad that you had a little success with your case. My MP will not get involved now as I left the area (I felt disgraced) and then when I lost my house I left the country.. I am scared to put in a complaint in case it gives them more reason to target me..

 

A complaint will or at least we can only hope will result in the investigators being investigated they should not come after you more so now just because of it as then that would give YOU more ammunition against them. you HAVE to do something and regardless of whether your MP wont get involved maybe it can still be highlighted how you have been victimised and you feel forced to go live abroad. I am sure that should hit a few ...and maybe have you considered the fact you have gone to live abroad that they trying to use that as a way to pin a guilty verdict on you.......

[Millennia]

I feel so persecuted.. The fraud officer laughed at me on the phone when I tried to request the court postpone until after my appeal..he basically told me that I was going to court irrelavant of any appeal.

My solicitor informs me that they just want a conviction and make an example of me..

Can I refuse publicity in respect of my children being conceived by D.I and to protect them??

 

I moved overseas as this was the only way that I could afford to put a roof over the kids heads.. and well.. after all this England can go and [edit]

 

They (the DWP) says its not in public interest to 'let me off' but I cant pay a fine, I cant do community service, I have no income, I will lose my house, my career and be left unemployable in my trade with young kids.. I am even claiming any benefits.. How is it in public interest to pursue this?? esp when there is no evidence against me My life will be ruined on 'assumption'. Even if I win the case, I cannot claim any compensation or expenses, so I am ruined whichever way it goes.

 

Yes I suspect the court is a way to force me to plead guilty.. and I have considered it just to save the expense of the trial...

 

WILL SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME??????

 

I have also considered going to the press...

Edited July 2, 2008 by steven4064
swear filter bypass

[steven4064]

I think sweetnsexy is right - you need to make a complaint - nothing will happen if you don't (it may not if you do, of course, but...)

 

If that gets you nowhere, then go to the press.

 

Have they said anything about evidence? It's just that we have been looking at the use of hearsay evidence in another neck of the (CAG) woods.

[Millennia]

The evidence is all 'hearsay' and 'assumption'. One witness who barely knew us (and lying to save his own skin) says he 'thinks that b/f lives with me.. another witness who said he never rented to b/f. Yet we have proof that the tenant did sublet to b/f.. The rest is assumption that if he had 'no fixed address then he must have been with me'.

 

Whats this about hearsay evidence in other areas?? Can you help me?

[steven4064]

Its just that there are rule about whether and how hearsay evidence may be introduced in court. Its in the Civil Evidence Act 1995

[Millennia]

Thankyou.. will pass that onto my solicitor.

 

Any other help would also be appreciated..

 

Thanks x