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Parcel delivery insurance is prohibited under section 57 – Consumer Rights Act – Read about It Here and in The Times. ×


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    • little old lady
      GroupNexus ANCR PCN - Petrol Station Roadchef Tibshelf South DE5 5 T

      By little old lady · Posted

      Hmm yes I see your point about proof of postage but nonetheless... "A Notice to Keeper can be served by ordinary post and the Protection of Freedoms Act requires that the Notice, to be valid,  must be delivered either (Where a notice to driver (parking ticket) has been served) Not earlier than 28 days after, nor more than 56 days after, the service of that notice to driver; or (Where no notice to driver has been served (e.g ANPR is used)) Not later than 14 days after the vehicle was parked A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales." My question there is really what might constitute proof? Since you say the issue of delivery is a common one I suppose that no satisfactory answer has been established or you would probably have told me.
    • BankFodder
      Shock !!EVRI has lost my parcel PS5 - court claim issued

      By BankFodder · Posted

      I would stand your ground and go for the interest. Even if the interest is not awarded you will get the judgement and the worst that might happen is that you won't get your claim fee.  However, it is almost inevitable that you will get the interest.  It is correct that it is at the discretion of the judge but the discretion is almost always exercised in favour of the claimant in these cases.  I think you should stand your ground and don't give even the slightest penny away Another judgement against them on this issue would be very bad for them and they would be really stupid to risk it but if they did, it would cost them far more than the interest they are trying to save which they will most likely have to pay anyway
    • Nicky Boy
      Shock !!EVRI has lost my parcel PS5 - court claim issued

      By Nicky Boy · Posted

      Yep, true to form, they are happy to just save a couple of quid... They invariably lose in court, so to them, that's a win. 😅
    • Nicky Boy
      GroupNexus ANCR PCN - Petrol Station Roadchef Tibshelf South DE5 5 T

      By Nicky Boy · Posted

      Your concern regarding the 14 days delivery is a common one. Not been on the forum that long, but I don't think the following thought has ever been challenged. My view is that they should have proof of when it was posted, not when they "issued", or printed it. Of course, they would never show any proof of postage, unless it went to court. Private parking companies are simply after money, and will just keep sending ever more threatening letters to intimidate you into paying up. It's not been mentioned yet, but DO NOT APPEAL! You could inadvertently give up useful legal protection and they will refuse any appeal, because they're just after the cash...  
    • FTMDave
      Horizon ANPR PCN - overstay - Iceland Chester

      By FTMDave · Posted

      The sign says "Parking conditions apply 24/7". Mind you, that's after a huge wall of text. The whole thing is massively confusing.  Goodness knows what you're meant to do if you spend only a fiver in Iceland or you stay a few minutes over the hour there.

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      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

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    • Post in Suing a parcel delivery company when you don't have a direct contract with them – third-party rights Copy of judgment available

      BankFodder posted a post in a topic,

      We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

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      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Parcel delivery insurance is prohibited under section 57 – Consumer Rights Act – Read about It Here and in The Times.

Deposit to test drive - refusing to refund *WON IN COURT*

joegarthy

By joegarthy
in General Consumer Issues

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fed_up_uk

fed_up_uk

Posted
Posted

So I see, sorry I must've missed it. I have to ask did you sign anything with this trader? One would assume that if the deposit is supposed to be against the purchase of the car, the deposit would naturally be taken after completing paperwork. Otherwise is there anything to say what this trader has taken money for? If not, definately go back to your card company and say funds have been taken for no reason.

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jonni2bad

jonni2bad

Posted
Posted

Hi again joe

 

You can start this claim online if you like, it's relatively straight forward so doesn't need an overly complicated Particulars of Claim (the bit where you state your case) or, if you prefer, you can download a claims form (N1), fill them in at home and return them either by hand or post to the court.

 

The only thing about online claims is the limited number of characters and lines of text that you can use. If you're in no rush, I will write some Particulars for you this weekend...?

 

The claim will be heard at your local county court, unless there are good reasons why the defendant cannot attend that location, but that is rare.

 

There is a guide to using the online (MCOL) service here...

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/consumer-forums-website-questions/71369-getting-mcol-right.html

 

Along with links to the court service guide here...

Her Majesty's Courts Service

 

and the actual online service for claims here...

https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco2/index.jsp

 

It will cost you £45 to start the claim, but this will be added to the 'amount' of anything awarded should you win. You are very unlikely to have to pay anything if you lose, other than the original £45. That would be up to the Judge and is only typically awarded where the claimant has taken action vexatiously.

..

.

 

Opinions given herein are made informally by myself as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

 

 

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Zamzara

Zamzara

Posted
Posted

Surely the definition of a test drive is that you are not making a decision whether to committing to buy the car until afterwards. Even if you mentioned subject to faults, 'fault' in this context is not limited to those in the Sale of Goods Act and could be something like you don't like the feel of the seats.

 

no to yorkshire....further south.

deposit on mastercard - although they're useless - see earlier part of thread.

 

Useless or not, you can name them as joint defendants.

Post by me are intended as a discussion of the issues involved, as these are of general interest to me and others on the forum. Although it is hoped such discussion will be of use to readers, before exposing yourself to risk of loss you should not rely on any principles discussed without confirming the situation with a qualified person.

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nufsaid

nufsaid

Posted
Posted

Good luck JG there are a fair few guides on the courts web site about form filling I don't know where they are on here sorry you can phone your court as well they are lovely people normally and are there to help if your stuck.

Keep us up to date. :)

:(:confused:Confused, sad,bewildered,befuddled,bemused,disorientated,lonley until I came here, moving forward to :smile::lol: ,trying not to let them drag me down.:cool:
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jonni2bad

jonni2bad

Posted
Posted

JG, sorry about the delay here - as per usual, just when you think you are getting some spare time, something comes along!

 

Anyway, I will, if you like create a pdf version of the N1 form for you pre-filled. If you would like to send me a PM, I can discuss a couple of things with you first.

 

This is not an obligation, by the way, merely an offer - you are not obliged to accept and I certainly wouldn't take offence!

..

.

 

Opinions given herein are made informally by myself as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

 

 

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  • 1 month later...
joegarthy

joegarthy

Posted
  • Author
Posted

OK - Latest Update for you all!

 

Sent letter by special delivery and got a response the next day. The response was littered with spelling mistakes, no grammar, basically an extension of the crap seen previously. Certainly no potential for a climb down.

 

Court papers filed. Have now had his 'particulars of defence' (much more professional now so I'm guessing he has now got advice). He states:

 

1) The claimant visited the defendant...

2) The claimant was told that if wished to purchase the vehicle he would need to place a deposit to proceed with purchase.

3) The claimant later telephoned the defendant and placed a deposit on the vehicle.

4) The claimant was told that he would be required to place a deposit which would be returned subject to a test-drive and only if the vehicle was faulty. The claimant agreed and left a holding deposit over the telephone.

 

There are another 8 points, but none as contentious as 4). He absolutely did not mention the 'only if the vehicle was faulty' and this forms the basis of my argument.

 

Anyway, I now have an allocation questionnaire to fill in. Some help please...

 

1) What is a pre-action protocol? Have I done this? Dont think I needed to

2) Amount in dispute is increasing with interest on a daily basis - what amount do I put in here? What was in the original court notice?

3) In other information, how little or much should you attach? Every correspondence we have had? What information should be included to help the judge manage the claim?

 

Any information gratefully received....hope this is all ultimately worthwhile... Oh and is it a coincidence that the creditcard used to deposit the £500 was violated to the tune of £1,600 2 days after the court summons arrived?

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JonCris

JonCris

Posted
Posted

I particularly love no 4 as obviously they haven't told whoever wrote it that there was something wrong with the car hence all the problems with delivery

 

Have you had further monies taken from your card & if so by whom?

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Devdas73

Devdas73

Posted
Posted

I had a similar experience with a car supermarket. I went in personally to the guy who took the deposit he laughed at me. So I went and contacted Trading Standards explaining fully the situation. Withing a few weeks i received my money back.

 

You have no loss in contacting TS thats what they are there to do to assist consumers.

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  • 1 month later...
joegarthy

joegarthy

Posted
  • Author
Posted

A special thank-you to all that helped me over the past few months (particularly jonni2bad).

 

The conclusion....

 

Went to court today. Defendant did not show. Judge stated that that the 'no faults found' was an unfair clause on the consumer and as such found in my favour.

 

He has 14 days to pay or the baliffs turn up.

 

Bloody, bloody marvellous. Thank God.

 

Thanks again.

 

The end.

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Guest wino

Guest wino

Posted
Posted

Well done, long time coming. :)

 

lets hope you don't have any trouble getting your money back.

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jonni2bad

jonni2bad

Posted
Posted

Joe - that's absolutely wonderful news.

 

I'm so glad for you and it shows everyone else that you simply must stand up for what you know is right.

 

CONGRATULATIONS!!!

Don't forget to keep us posted on the return of the money...

..

.

 

Opinions given herein are made informally by myself as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

 

 

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jonni2bad

jonni2bad

Posted
Posted

Yes, but under your instruction. Lets see if we need it before worrying about how you do it.

 

They might now see the sense in behaving themselves!

 

It will only cost them more money if they ignore you.

..

.

 

Opinions given herein are made informally by myself as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

 

 

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  • 4 weeks later...
JonCris

JonCris

Posted
Posted
ok - ignored.

Which method shall we choose to chase?

Warrant of execution?

Third party debt order?

recommendations welcomed?

 

is it worth a reminder e-mail to the chap?

 

Warrant ......... embarrass the buggers

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davethorp

davethorp

Posted
Posted

Seconded

 

As it's a business, the bailiff can break in if necessary and as it's a car dealer, I can't see the bailiff struggling to find goods to satisfy the debt

All my posts are made without prejudice and may not be reused or reproduced without my express permission (or the permission of the forums owners)!

 

17/10/2006 Recieve claim against me from lloyds TSB for £312.82

18/10/06 S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent

03/02/07 Claim allocated to small claims. Hearing set for 15/05/07. Lloyds ordered to file statement setting out how they calculate their charges

15/05/07 Lloyds do not attend. Judgement ordered for £192 approx, £3 travel costs and removal of default notice

29/05/07 4pm Lloyds deadline for payment of CCJ expires. Warrant of execution ready to go

19/06/07 Letter from court stating Lloyds have made a cheque payment to court

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  • 2 weeks later...
legalpickle

legalpickle

Posted
Posted

Any news about the Warrant of Execution?

 

If it doesn't succeed for whatever reason you need to consider the other options. I wouldn't be surprised if he shuts up shop and opens elsewhere from reading this thread.

 

A Third Party Debt Order is not much good if you don't have any account details or details of people that owe this **** money.

 

Did you have any success with the other monies taken off your card fraudulently?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

:!: All the information I impart is my advice based on my experience. It does not constitute professional advice. If in doubt, always consult with a professional. :!:

 

:-) If you feel my post has been helpful, please click my scales. :-)

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