moorcroft

[chris5219]

Hi, I've looking around the site for a template letter I can send to Moorcr*p. I sent a CCA request to them and they sent a reply stating that although they cant provide me with a signed credit agreement and so the debt is not enforceable in a court of law they still want the money I owe as I had had the goods and a default remains on my file. I would like the default removed but I'm not sure how to word the letter is there a letter in the library I can use? I've looked and cant find one. Any help would be much appreciated.

 

One other thing I was paying the original debtor through Payplan before it was passed to them, should I carry on paying the OD or what? I'm new to this and have never CCA'd anyone before.

 

Chrissie:-)

[PriorityOne]

If there is no CCA, then you are no longer obliged to make payments on the account. The letter you've received is a standard template from Moorcroft.... They know that they cannot enforce the debt through the courts, so are trying to make you feel obligated to them.... stupid bergers.

 

The default could be a bit more difficult to remove, depending on who put it there. If it was the original creditor, it will probably be an uphill battle. How long has the default been on there ?

[chris5219]

Hi PriorityOne, Thanks for replying, The default has probably been on my file since around 2003, and it was the original creditor who put it there. So you think I should just ignore them now?, I think the default only stays on my file for six years am I right? then it comes off. They wanted me to reply to their letter stating that I confirm that I have received the goods (it was a catalogue) and they want my payment proposals. I have been paying the OC through Payplan so its not as if I don't want to pay, its just when these DCA's come along and start sending letters etc trying to make you pay more than you can afford, thats when it annoys me. So this time when it got passed to a DCA I thought I'd go down the CCA route.

 

Thanks very much

 

Chrissie:)

[babybear39]

It p***es Moorcroft off if you pay the OC

[42man]

Chris this is one case that was involved that you might like to read about...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/115280-useful-information.html

[chris5219]

Hi Thanks for all your replies,

I have read through the thread from elizabeth1, and this is similar, Moorcroft cannot provide the signed credit agreement, although they still want to be paid. They also want me to confirm I had the goods. To start paying them now would be like "giving in" and they have "won". I can just ignore them and carry on paying the OC through Payplan or stop paying altogether. Not sure what to do for the best. On looking through threads here regarding CCA requests most DCA's who cannot provide signed credit agreements just pass the account back to the original OC but Moorcr*p didn't they kept the account and even though they have no credit agreement still want the money. Any ideas from anyone as to what my next step would be would be appreciated.

 

Chrissie:)

[42man]

You are quite within your rights to not pay them, the ethical aspect is of course up to you. It may be that Moorcroft cannot return the debt as they have bought it !!

 

you might like to edit this to suit...

 

Account In Dispute

 

Ref:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore

 

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

 

If that request is not satisfied after a further 30 calendar days your client commits a summary criminal offence.

 

These limits have expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

And

 

(b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

[chris5219]

Thanks for the reply 42man, That is a good letter. I wasn't sure of the wording and you have to look as if you know what you are talking about even if you don't:wink:. Moorcroft did actually respond within the 12 days with a letter saying they didn't have the credit agreement but still want payment, and whilst I do not dispute the debt, they have no proof they are legally entitled to collect it. The OC didn't write to let me know the debt was being passed on to a DCA. Although Moorcroft have the right account no. etc. I've heard these old debts (and this is an old one it defaulted in 2003) get bought at auctions for next to nothing and the DCA's just try to get as much money as they can from them. Anyway I'll send a version of your letter and see what I get back.

 

thanks again

 

chrissie:)

[42man]

Good luck C and keep us posted....

[chris5219]

Hi,

 

Just an update on this Moorcroft thing. I sent an edited copy of the letter kindly submitted by 42man, but this morning I got a letter dated 25th March which had "crossed" in the post. This is a "Notice of intended Litigation" they want the money by 1st April in full, if I do not respond they will assume I'm purposely avioding epayment of this debt and will take the necessary steps to secure settlement which may include issuing legal action against me. They then continue to add court costs on to the debt of almost £100,00 on top of what I owe. Are they bluffing or what? I've already received a letter saying because they cant produce a signed consumer agreement they cant take this to court, so now are they using scare tactics? I'm not refusing to pay I do owe this money but as they can't prove they have the right to collect it, I'm going to carry on paying the OC through Payplan as I've always done. I've noticed at the bottom of the letter they have put and I quote "Please note we have confirmed with a major public utility that you are in occupancy at the above address" Can they do this? in this age of data protection etc? Would a gas, electric or water company tell them yes this person lives at that address? seems wrong to me but maybe they are bluffing again. Shall I just wait and see what answer I get from the letter I sent? Am I right in thinking they can't take me to court if they don't have the credit agreement and the account is in dispute? I would be grateful for anyone's thoughts on this please.

 

Chrissie:)

[PGH7447]

I think Priority1 states in post 2 that they cant do anything, but I am sure someone more qualified can confirm they are talking B*llsh*t

 

PGH7447

[ScarletPimpernel]

As usual, Moorcroft's tedious missives are liberally coated with bullsh!t.

 

If they have already admitted that they can't produce an agreement, then sending a 'notice of intended litigation' (even if it's an empty threat), is a breach of several parts of the OFT Guidance:

- threatening legal action when it cannot legally be taken

- communicating in a deceitful or misleading manner

- applying psychological pressure

 

Perhaps more importantly, if they can't provide an agreement when you've asked for one, demanding payment is unlawful.

 

Additionally, as you are already paying this to the OC through a DMP, I suggest that Moorcroft's actions amount to harassment under s.40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970.

 

I wouldn't bother with Moorcroft - let them stew in their own little world. I'd complain to Trading Standards, and also drop a line to the OC pointing out that even though the debt is unenforceable, you are, as a gesture of goodwill, paying it back through Payplan - if they don't confirm that they've instructed Moorcroft to drop it, you may have to reconsider your position.

[chris5219]

Thanks for your reply ScarletPimpernel, okay I'll send a letter to Littlewoods (the original creditor) maybe I could mention I'm complaining to Trading Standards about Moorcroft and telling them I shall continue to pay them until they tell me Moorcroft has a right to this debt? When you say reconsider my position do you mean if Moorcroft don't drop this I should stop paying Littlewoods and start paying Moorcroft? or stop paying them altogether? sorry if I sound "a bit thick".

Thanks very much

Chrissie:)

[chris5219]

Just a quick update on this, Moorcr*p have sent me another letter stating they have noticed I'm still paying the OC and not them and if I don't respond to their letter they will instruct their solicitors to commence legal proceedings etc etc. How stupid are they? They already said in a previous letter because they do not have the signed consumer credit agreement the debt is unenforcable in a court of law, now they are telling me they are taking me to court!!! I've e-mailed the Office of Fair Trading as I feel now they are in breech of their guidelines. They have appeared to ignore letters I've sent to them. I've also sent a letter to the original creditor (Littlewoods) telling them I've contacted the Office of Fair Trading explaining what Moorcroft have been doing.

I'll keep you posted.

 

Chrissie:-)

[chris5219]

Hi just an update on this I wrote to the OD telling them that Moorcroft were trying to pursue an unenforceable debt. I didn't think they would reply but this morning I got a letter from them this is a part of it:

 

"Under the circumstances, I can confirm that we requested the account to be returned to ourselves from Moorcroft Debt Recoveries and we will not be pursuing the above account for the outstanding balance of.... However, if we subsequently locate your signed credit agreement we reserve the right to recommence collection activity.

 

As the debt remains unsatsifield this will be noted on our internal file for future reference. This information will also form part of your records at the credit reference agencies where we share information. This information will remain on your Credit Reference File for 6 years. However I note that you are making payments via Payplan. Should you choose to continue making these payments it will reduce the debt outstanding on your credit file".

 

So basically I've "won" but I never at any point said I wont pay I'm even thinking about offering them 50% of the debt as full and final. As this debt will remain on my credit reference file and when we go to remortgage when our fixed interest rate ends at the end of next year, we want to get the best deal possible.

 

Chrissie:)

[chris5219]

Whoops sorry!!! I didn't know the attached thumb nail would come out too. I thought I'd unsuccesfully sent the attachment so I typed the page out.

So I know how to do it next time:razz:

 

Chrissie:)

[ScarletPimpernel]

They've just picked the template letter that comes the closest to what they want to say, albeit in their usual waffley way. Their English is appalling too 'under the circumstances' should be 'in the circumstances', as any pedant knows.

 

Anyway, a result for you, and a fee lost for Moorcroft. Well done!

[PGH7447]

Congrats

[chris5219]

Thank you.:)

[babybear39]

 

If you do offer any F & F make sure you include in the conditions that they mark the account fully satisfied with the CRAs and you get it in writing before you pay.

[chris5219]

Yes, thanks babybear39 I will send them a letter first, and get it in writing before I pay. Didn't think I'd get a result on this, and would never had sent Moorcroft a CCA request had it not been for this site.

 

Thanks everyone.

 

Cheers

 

Chrissie:)

[Von Greenbach]

and a fee lost for Moorcroft. Well done!

 

That deserves to be noticed